The Brink of War?

[Moses]

What I do know is Russia started this war.

June 2, 2014. Ukrainian military aircraft bombing center of Lugansk.


https://youtu.be/0xp_v7odTrY

[latintopxxx]

I'm a bit tired of all the arm chair warriors......we all have already lost...the waste of life...billions of dollars in destroyed infrastructure...even if Putin pulled back and apologised we still would have lost...just wish the whole thing would go away...

[cdnmatt]

June 2, 2014. Ukrainian military aircraft bombing center of Lugansk.

Remind me, what happend in February, 2014?

[Dragonman]

In the first half of the last century, following the collapse of various continental European empires, one fanatical politician became obsessed with gathering together all the native speakers of his language together in one state under his rule, and with annexing all neighboring territories where the inhabitants were speakers of his language. If that meant violating international law and international treaty obligations, that didn't matter.

At that time, that slogan was "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Führer! [One People, One Realm, One Leader!]." The annexations went by the term "“Anschluss” (a word that means “connection” or “joining”).

That person was a Nazi, but I think the analogy is obvious. The idea now resonates with politicians of other political persuasions, including General Secretary Xi and Lord Voldemort.

[Moses]

In the first half of the last century, following the collapse of various continental European empires, one fanatical politician became obsessed with gathering together all the native speakers of his language together in one state under his rule, and with annexing all neighboring territories where the inhabitants were speakers of his language. If that meant violating international law and international treaty obligations, that didn't matter.

At that time, that slogan was "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Führer! [One People, One Realm, One Leader!]." The annexations went by the term "“Anschluss” (a word that means “connection” or “joining”).

That person was a Nazi, but I think the analogy is obvious. The idea now resonates with politicians of other political persuasions, including General Secretary Xi and Lord Voldemort.

Yeah, I know. And Chiang Wei-kuo served in the Wehrmacht. 4th Secretary-General of the National Security Council of the Republic of China (Taiwan).

In 1993, Chiang Wei-kuo was employed as a senior advisor to President Lee Teng-hui.

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[Dodger]

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He looks like a ladyboy.

[cdnmatt]

Does anyone know, did Edward Snowden get called up to serve mother Russia? He was recently granted Russian citizenship, and he is of military age, so.... not sure what happened to him.

[Dragonman]

Chiang Wei-kuo was an obedient adopted son and was sent to study and serve in the Wehrmacht by his father Chiang Kai-Shek - he did not volunteer and obeyed as Confucian filial piety demanded then (and is still very strong now in Taiwan). Following his recall to China, he visited the United States as a distinguished guest of the US Army on behalf of his father and the Kuomintang. While in the United States, he gave lectures detailing on German army organizations and tactics. At the same time, his brother Chiang Ching-kuo (having previously been a student studying in Moscow) was being held as a virtual political hostage in the Soviet Union by Joseph Stalin. CKS was playing both sides against the middle.

On the other hand, and courtesy of Wikipedia, and following "Operation Barbarossa. "The two main forms of mass collaboration in the Nazi-occupied territories were both military in nature. It is estimated that anywhere between 600,000 and 1,400,000 Soviets (Russians and non-Russians) joined the Wehrmacht forces as Hiwis (or Hilfswillige) in the initial stages of Barbarossa, including 275,000 to 350,000 “Muslim and Caucasian” volunteers and conscripts, ahead of the subsequent implementation of the more oppressive administrative methods by the SS. As much as 20% of the German manpower in Soviet Russia was composed of former Soviet citizens, about half of which were ethnic Russians. The Ukrainian collaborationist forces comprised an estimated 180,000 volunteers serving with units scattered all over Europe. The second type of mass collaboration were the indigenous security formations (majority ethnic Russian) running into hundreds of thousands and possibly more than 1 million (250,000 volunteers in the East Legions alone). Military collaboration – wrote Alex Alexiev – took place in truly unprecedented numbers suggesting that, more often than not, the Germans were perceived at first as the lesser of two evils by Soviet non-Russians. emphasis added"

[Moses]

Does anyone know, did Edward Snowden get called up to serve mother Russia? He was recently granted Russian citizenship, and he is of military age, so.... not sure what happened to him.

He cannot be mobilized: he has no service in Russian army in his past.

[Moses]

On the other hand, and courtesy of Wikipedia, and following "Operation Barbarossa. "The two main forms of mass collaboration in the Nazi-occupied territories were both military in nature. It is estimated that anywhere between 600,000 and 1,400,000 Soviets (Russians and non-Russians) joined the Wehrmacht forces as Hiwis (or Hilfswillige) in the initial stages of Barbarossa, including 275,000 to 350,000 “Muslim and Caucasian” volunteers and conscripts, ahead of the subsequent implementation of the more oppressive administrative methods by the SS. As much as 20% of the German manpower in Soviet Russia was composed of former Soviet citizens, about half of which were ethnic Russians. The Ukrainian collaborationist forces comprised an estimated 180,000 volunteers serving with units scattered all over Europe. The second type of mass collaboration were the indigenous security formations (majority ethnic Russian) running into hundreds of thousands and possibly more than 1 million (250,000 volunteers in the East Legions alone). Military collaboration – wrote Alex Alexiev – took place in truly unprecedented numbers suggesting that, more often than not, the Germans were perceived at first as the lesser of two evils by Soviet non-Russians. emphasis added"

And how many of them were Russian Secretary-General of the National Security Council or President's senior adviser just 30 years ago????

[Dragonman]

And how many of them were Russian Secretary-General of the National Security Council or President's senior adviser just 30 years ago????

Obviously you do not understand the difference between being sent somewhere by your father, on the one hand, and volunteering to do something (note the word "volunteer" in the extract above) on the other. Perhaps logic and rational thinking are not taught in Russian educational systems?

His brother, Chiang Ching-kuo, studied in Moscow. After his father, CKS, purged leftist elements from the Kuomintang in response to the rise of the Communist party, the USSR imprisoned Ching-kuo. For more than 10 years, Ching-kuo remained in Moscow. During this time, Chiang Kai-shek refused to negotiate a prisoner swap. He firmly believed that compromising China’s future was not worth his son’s life. In 1937, Ching-kuo returned to China with a Belarusian wife. With both sons at home, Chiang Kai-shek decided to send Wei-kuo to receive a military education in Germany. Later, CKS ordered Chiang Wei-kuo to travel to the United States for further military training. Chiang Ching-kuo didn't decided himself to go to either Germany or the USA, but went where his father sent him - in accordance with the Confucian concept of filial piety I noted earler.

The fact that he became Secretary-General of the National Security Council or President's senior adviser later was because he was his father's son at a time when the KMT controlled Taiwan under martial law. His brother, Chiang Ching-kuo was the ROC President who ended martial law - after having the experience of being imprisoned in the Soviet Union because of what his father had done.

[Moses]

Obviously you do not understand the difference between being sent somewhere by your father, on the one hand, and volunteering to do something (note the word "volunteer" in the extract above) on the other. Perhaps logic and rational thinking are not taught in Russian educational systems?

His brother, Chiang Ching-kuo, studied in Moscow. After his father, CKS, purged leftist elements from the Kuomintang in response to the rise of the Communist party, the USSR imprisoned Ching-kuo. For more than 10 years, Ching-kuo remained in Moscow. During this time, Chiang Kai-shek refused to negotiate a prisoner swap. He firmly believed that compromising China’s future was not worth his son’s life. In 1937, Ching-kuo returned to China with a Belarusian wife. With both sons at home, Chiang Kai-shek decided to send Wei-kuo to receive a military education in Germany. Later, CKS ordered Chiang Wei-kuo to travel to the United States for further military training. Chiang Ching-kuo didn't decided himself to go to either Germany or the USA, but went where his father sent him - in accordance with the Confucian concept of filial piety I noted earler.

The fact that he became Secretary-General of the National Security Council or President's senior adviser later was because he was his father's son at a time when the KMT controlled Taiwan under martial law. His brother, Chiang Ching-kuo was the ROC President who ended martial law - after having the experience of being imprisoned in the Soviet Union because of what his father had done.

after 18 y.o. person has personal responsibility for own actions... was he below 18? no? what are you talking about then?

"father send me" sounds like "god send me" from the mouth of serial killer-maniac

[Dragonman]

after 18 y.o. person has personal responsibility for own actions... was he below 18? no? what are you talking about then?

"father send me" sounds like "god send me" from the mouth of serial killer-maniac

1. If you are referring to a legal age of majority at 18 years of age, the current legal age of majority in the Republic of China/ Taiwan is 21 years of age, as it will be until January 1, 2023 when it is lowered to 18. You are attempting to apply the situation in other countries which does not yet apply here.
2. There is no evidence that Chiang Wei-kuo was a serial killer-maniac, if that is what you intended to imply.
3. In Confucianism, the attitude of obedience, devotion, and care toward one's parents and elder family members was, and to a great extent still is, the basis of individual moral conduct and social harmony in society. Chiang Kai-shek embraced a form that is now known as Confucian fascism, however, and his sons did as they were told.
4. The standards of the early 21st century Russia did not apply in the ROC at the time Chiang Wei-kuo was sent to Germany, just as it did not apply when his brother was sent to the Soviet Union - perhaps you missed the point of the comment that CKS "firmly believed that compromising China’s future was not worth his son’s life," i..e., he would not trade his elder son's life for the ROC's future.
5. You may not agree with CKS's moral standards, but at least he had some.
6. Presumably, given your comments about people above 18 years of age being responsible for their own actions, you will understand why so many Russian men are fleeing the "partial mobilization," as they understand the illegality and immorality of the "special military operation"?

[Moses]

6. Presumably, given your comments about people above 18 years of age being responsible for their own actions, you will understand why so many Russian men are fleeing the "partial mobilization," as they understand the illegality and immorality of the "special military operation"?

Despite gossips and rumors Russia is country of freedom in choice of place to travel and to live. So these who want to move, have option to move. Your call "flee" is propaganda. They just choose to travel or to move to another country. Why not? Nobody stops them, all borders are opened (at least these what Western "democracies" didn't lock yet by "sanctions").

And partial mobilization means exactly that - partial, below 300K from 25 mln. Most regions already reported what they have finished it. About 45K come voluntary, rest were drafted.

And by the way: for Russian govt is very important to keep borders opened - on this way opponents of military operation are going out of country, so here will be even less meetings and demonstrations.

[Dragonman]

Despite gossips and rumors Russia is country of freedom in choice of place to travel and to live. So these who want to move, have option to move. Your call "flee" is propaganda. They just choose to travel or to move to another country. Why not? Nobody stops them, all borders are opened (at least these what Western "democracies" didn't lock yet by "sanctions").

And partial mobilization means exactly that - partial, below 300K from 25 mln. Most regions already reported what they have finished it. About 45K come voluntary, rest were drafted.

And by the way: for Russian govt is very important to keep borders opened - on this way opponents of military operation are going out of country, so here will be even less meetings and demonstrations.

"As Russians Flee, Some Find Draft Notices Waiting at the Border. The Kremlin dispatched federal security forces to frontier border crossings packed with Russian men trying to escape the draft by entering countries like Georgia, Kazakhstan and Mongolia.

The Kremlin has dispatched still more forces to shore up its faltering war effort, but the units are headed not to Ukraine but to Russia’s borders with other countries, where on Tuesday they were confronting young Russian men trying to join an exodus out of the country.

As the avenues for Russians to escape a draft order issued last week narrowed, the Federal Security Service sent armored vehicles to the frontiers, where some men waiting to flee were being served military call-up papers, the state news media reported" (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/27/world/europe/russia-ukraine-war-referendums.html).

[Moses]

"As Russians Flee, Some Find Draft Notices Waiting at the Border. The Kremlin dispatched federal security forces to frontier border crossings packed with Russian men trying to escape the draft by entering countries like Georgia, Kazakhstan and Mongolia.

The Kremlin has dispatched still more forces to shore up its faltering war effort, but the units are headed not to Ukraine but to Russia’s borders with other countries, where on Tuesday they were confronting young Russian men trying to join an exodus out of the country.

As the avenues for Russians to escape a draft order issued last week narrowed, the Federal Security Service sent armored vehicles to the frontiers, where some men waiting to flee were being served military call-up papers, the state news media reported" (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/27/world/europe/russia-ukraine-war-referendums.html).

Propaganda.

Friend of mine crossed border with Kazakhstan 3 days ago. Travel has been planned months ago - he has sister there to visit. He spend in line on the border about 3 hours. No questions from border guards even he had no tickets back to Russia on hands and he had Military ID with him.

I was watching his Live Location:

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Son of my oldest friends flew to Armenia just today - his wife is from Armenia and they went to visit her relatives as he has vacations. Also no questions from border guards in Moscow airport.

Yes, in both cases guards check list of mobilized (these "below 300K") and if person isn't in list - person is free to go.

[cdnmatt]

Hmmm... Ukraine made a new bid for NATO membership. Maybe I'm naive, but I'm assuming there's more to this than just showmanship and there were discussions had behind the scenes before they put that new bid in.

Let's see what happens.

[Moses]

Hmmm... Ukraine made a new bid for NATO membership. Maybe I'm naive, but I'm assuming there's more to this than just showmanship and there were discussions had behind the scenes before they put that new bid in.

Let's see what happens.

I don't know what NATO will say, but UK gas got +38% in price after that news.

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[cdnmatt]

I quite obviously am not part of the NATO intelligence community, but it strikes me as odd that Ukraine would just throw in another bid for NATO membership like this. I'm assuming they didn't do it blindly or just for showmanship / publicity. There's a chance there's been discussions behind the scenes letting Ukraine know, "go ahead and submit another bid, we'll ensure it gets fast tracked and approved".

That kind of makes sense. If Russia is going to be assholes and straight up steal 18% of Ukraine and say "this is now Russian territory", there's a chance NATO will respond with, "ok, then the other 82% of Ukraine is now under NATO protection, what you gonna do bitch?".

See what happens....

[cdnmatt]

Oh, and sure enough, now it's showing up in the news. Ukraine has submitted a "fast track" bid to become a NATO member:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJValMImWP4

I'm assuming there's been discussions behind the scenes before they pulled the trigger and submitted this bid. Let's see what happens. There's a chance this is the West's response to Russia straight up stealing 18% of Ukraine.

[Dragonman]

Propaganda.

Friend of mine crossed border with Kazakhstan 3 days ago. Travel has been planned months ago - he has sister there to visit. He spend in line on the border about 3 hours. No questions from border guards even he had no tickets back to Russia on hands and he had Military ID with him.

I was watching his Live Location:

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Son of my oldest friends flew to Armenia just today - his wife is from Armenia and they went to visit her relatives as he has vacations. Also no questions from border guards in Moscow airport.

Yes, in both cases guards check list of mobilized (these "below 300K") and if person isn't in list - person is free to go.

My quoting from a respected news source is propaganda. Your unverifiable comments are not?

[Dragonman]

Oh, and sure enough, now it's showing up in the news. Ukraine has submitted a "fast track" bid to become a NATO member:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJValMImWP4

I'm assuming there's been discussions behind the scenes before they pulled the trigger and submitted this bid. Let's see what happens. There's a chance this is the West's response to Russia straight up stealing 18% of Ukraine.

I would suspect that, if Ukraine's membership of NATO is fast-tracked, then any use by the Russian Federation of tactical nuclear weapons to deter any Ukrainian attempts to recover the illegally-annexed territories - on the grounds that they are part of the Russian Federation - would be regarded as an attack on NATO and met with the appropriate response. I

[Moses]

Oh, and sure enough, now it's showing up in the news. Ukraine has submitted a "fast track" bid to become a NATO member:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJValMImWP4

I'm assuming there's been discussions behind the scenes before they pulled the trigger and submitted this bid. Let's see what happens. There's a chance this is the West's response to Russia straight up stealing 18% of Ukraine.

And US and NATO already replied "No way now".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9KLpEREV0M&t=817s Sullivan: "process in Brussel should be taken at different time".

[Moses]

My quoting from a respected news source is propaganda. Your unverifiable comments are not?

Sure. Because I'm in the middle of actions, you are in the middle of nowhere.

[Dragonman]

Sure. Because I'm in the middle of actions, you are in the middle of nowhere.

You're "in the middle of actions"? Prove it.

[Dragonman]

And US and NATO already replied "No way now".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9KLpEREV0M&t=817s Sullivan: "process in Brussel should be taken at different time".

Not according to Jens Stoltenberg, the NATO Secretary-General: "“A decision on membership, of course, has to be taken by all 30 allies and we take these decisions by consensus,” he said. “Our focus now,” he added, “is on providing immediate support to Ukraine, to help Ukraine defend itself against the Russian brutal invasion” Politico, September 30, 2022 5:13 pm (https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-formal-application-join-nato/).

No decision has yet been taken.

[Moses]

Not according to Jens Stoltenberg, the NATO Secretary-General: "“A decision on membership, of course, has to be taken by all 30 allies and we take these decisions by consensus,” he said. “Our focus now,” he added, “is on providing immediate support to Ukraine, to help Ukraine defend itself against the Russian brutal invasion” Politico, September 30, 2022 5:13 pm (https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-formal-application-join-nato/).

No decision has yet been taken.

National News Agency Ukraine, Dmitry Shurkho:

Thank you for you all. National News Agency of Ukraine Dmitry Shurkho. We, in Ukraine have no doubt we'll prevail and liberate our territories. But a few hours ago Ukrainian leadership showed us the possible way out of this bloody war and officially applied to NATO membership. My question, is NATO ready to consider that kind of application? And the second part of the question, is it possible to consider this speedy procedure for that kind of membership, like it was done for Sweden and Finland? Thank you so much.

NATO Secretary General, Jens Stoltenberg:

Every democracy in Europe has the right to apply for NATO membership, and NATO Allies respect that right. And we have stated again and again that NATO's door remains open. And we have demonstrated that over the last years.

NATO Allies, when they met at the NATO Summit in Madrid, stated also very clearly, that we support Ukraine's right to choose its own path, to decide what kind of security arrangements it wants to be part of. Then, a decision on membership, of course has to be taken by all 30 Allies and we take these decisions by consensus.

Our focus now is on providing immediate support to Ukraine, to help Ukraine defend itself against the Russian brutal invasion. And then that's the main focus and the main effort of NATO Allies, as we speak.

And 3 questions after:
NATO is not party to the conflict. We support Ukraine, but that doesn't make us part to the conflict. We support a sovereign nation in the sovereign right for self-defence.

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_207788.htm

[Dragonman]

National News Agency Ukraine, Dmitry Shurkho:

Thank you for you all. National News Agency of Ukraine Dmitry Shurkho. We, in Ukraine have no doubt we'll prevail and liberate our territories. But a few hours ago Ukrainian leadership showed us the possible way out of this bloody war and officially applied to NATO membership. My question, is NATO ready to consider that kind of application? And the second part of the question, is it possible to consider this speedy procedure for that kind of membership, like it was done for Sweden and Finland? Thank you so much.

NATO Secretary General, Jens Stoltenberg:

Every democracy in Europe has the right to apply for NATO membership, and NATO Allies respect that right. And we have stated again and again that NATO's door remains open. And we have demonstrated that over the last years.

NATO Allies, when they met at the NATO Summit in Madrid, stated also very clearly, that we support Ukraine's right to choose its own path, to decide what kind of security arrangements it wants to be part of. Then, a decision on membership, of course has to be taken by all 30 Allies and we take these decisions by consensus.

Our focus now is on providing immediate support to Ukraine, to help Ukraine defend itself against the Russian brutal invasion. And then that's the main focus and the main effort of NATO Allies, as we speak.

And 3 questions after:
NATO is not party to the conflict. We support Ukraine, but that doesn't make us part to the conflict. We support a sovereign nation in the sovereign right for self-defence.

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_207788.htm

So where in this is "No"? I can find many "not's" in the statement but not a single "No" to Ukraine's membership

Stoltenberg is repeating what NATO's position is now, which is that NATO is not part of the conflict. That is a matter of fact. He repeats that NATO supports a sovereign nation in the sovereign right for self-defence. Again, that is a matter of fact.

He repeats that a decision on membership is up to the 30 members of NATO. That is a matter of fact. As the 30 members of NATO have not yet met formally, no decision has been reached. Again, that is a matter of fact. It is not Stoltenberg's decsion to make. That, too, is a matter of fact.

Stoltenberg is a diplomat and has given a diplomatic answer!

[Dodger]

I'm assuming there's been discussions behind the scenes before they pulled the trigger and submitted this bid. Let's see what happens. There's a chance this is the West's response to Russia straight up stealing 18% of Ukraine.

Yep, sounds about right to me.

If Ukraine was fast tracked into NATO - the membership approval would of course include ALL of Ukraine - including the 4 regions Putin just attempted to annex illegally. End result: (I can hardly type this with a straight face) NATO would then become the entire western border of Russia. Is there any confusion as to why tens of thousands of Russian citizens are fleeing across friendly borders right now???

Ukraine’s methodical and deliberate progress is a cold dose of reality for Putin who still seems to think he can create reality by the force of his own will. Kremlin spokesman Peskov said yesterday that the parts of Luhansk and Donetsk that Russia does not control will have to be “liberated” – a statement that totally fails to recognize that the direction of travel on the battlefield is going the exact opposite direction. This guy must have been smoking too many doobies.

I've listened to several Military Strategists in the past few days who all question the true capabilities of Putin's nuclear capabilities - based on the fact that in order for a nuclear force to work it has to have a very strong and capable tactical foundation (ground game). As the World has witnessed, the Russian military, as well as the strategies that guide it, are severely flawed...totally incapable of achieving any military objectives...and are taking 10 times more casualties than their (perceived) enemy in the process. Sound like a strong foundation to you?

I watched Putin's speech yesterday and never saw so many stone-faced men like that in my life. I'd hate to be sitting at a poker table with any of them. No one blinked an eye...appearing as if they were totally brainwashed and void of any human thought or emotion. Jai said he thought they were just pretending to be serious - but in reality they were scared shitless listening to Putin's 17th century Taras Bulba rants.

[cdnmatt]

Kremlin spokesman Peskov said yesterday that the parts of Luhansk and Donetsk that Russia does not control will have to be “liberated” – a statement that totally fails to recognize that the direction of travel on the battlefield is going the exact opposite direction. This guy must have been smoking too many doobies.

Yeah, I'm not sure what they're thinking. There's reports of them drafting like 32 year old IT guys who had a year of military experience back when they were 18, and without any additional training, just shoving them onto a train and sending them to the front lines. Plus, apparently if you're a military aged male who protests the war, off to the front line you go. Yeah, let's give the protester a rifle and an PRG, and see how that goes.

Not sure who decided this was a good idea, but it wasn't. They're sending these guys who have absolutely no desire to be part of the war effort up to the front line against battle hardened Ukrainian soldiers who are using advanced Western weaponary, and are defending their freedom, homeland, and sovereignity.

Not to mention, Ukrainians know full what happened to their homeland when Joseph Stalin was running the helm back in the 1930s. I'm absolutely certain they would prefer to die defending their homeland vs. going back under Russian control and being slowly starved to death, send to the gulags in Siberia, et al.


I've listened to several Military Strategists in the past few days who all question the true capabilities of Putin's nuclear capabilities

You're right and who knows if a) Russia's nuclear arsenal even works at this point, and b) if the order would even be obeyed if Putin gave it. The Foreign Minister of Affairs of Ukraine was even on the Steven Colbert late show a little while ago, and doesn't seem too concerned about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjUHY2XgIxE&t=9s

Ukraine's position is basically Putin can call those regions part of the moon if he'd like, they don't care, and will not stop until they liberate every square meter of Ukrainian territory. Although Putin is quite obviously insane at this point considering maybe 30% of Russians view the annexation as legitimate, and literally everyone else on the planet views it as a sham, I still don't think he's dumb enough to fire off a nuke.

He must be intelligent enough to know that if he fires a nuke, NATO will have no choice but to fully engage, liberate Ukraine, and continue going all the way into Moscow and overthrow the government. NATO can not and will not allow Russia to go firing off nukes around Europe.

[Moses]

Ukraine's position is basically Putin can call those regions part of the moon if he'd like, they don't care, and will not stop until they liberate every square meter of Ukrainian territory.

145 mln (+8.5 mln on joined territories) : 22.5 mln (minus 8.5 mln on joined territories)

Russian now controls 108,000 sq.km of Ukraine (besides Crimea)



So where in this is "No"? I can find many "not's" in the statement but not a single "No" to Ukraine's membership

Stoltenberg is a diplomat and has given a diplomatic answer!

Exactly! This conflict is supported by NATO for to make problem to Russia, not for to make problems for themselves. So answer is predictable.

[cdnmatt]

[QUOTE=Moses;292439]Exactly! This conflict is supported by NATO for to make problem to Russia, not for to make problems for themselves.

Piss off, and don't pull a Putin and try playing the victim card. Russia is the one who invaded a sovereign nation, not NATO.

[Dodger]

"But Sir, I don't even have any bullets or a helmet".

"Quit your bitchin...and just get out there and take one for the Motherland".

[cdnmatt]

Yeah, there's even reports that conscripts are getting totally the wrong sized uniforms, have to buy various supplies with their own money such as hydrogen peroxide and food, et al.

I'm sure this will work out splendidly.

[Dragonman]

145 mln (+8.5 mln on joined territories) : 22.5 mln (minus 8.5 mln on joined territories)

Russian now controls 108,000 sq.km of Ukraine (besides Crimea)

Exactly! This conflict is supported by NATO for to make problem to Russia, not for to make problems for themselves. So answer is predictable.

Another response in Orwellian newspeak.

Does the "8.5 mln on joined territories" include or exclude the ethnic Ukrainians deported to other parts of the Russian Federation (e.g., https://theconversation.com/ukraine-war-reports-of-mass-deportations-recall-russias-dark-history-of-forcible-relocations-190272, and https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/ukraine-forced-deportations-russia-un-filtration-rcna46804) who didn't have chance to vote in the illegal referenda?.

[Dragonman]

Russian now controls 108,000 sq.km of Ukraine (besides Crimea)

108,000 sq km + Crimea's 27,000 sq.km = 135,000 sq km.

CNN reports that on 30 September, Russia controlled on 119,000 sq km, including Crimea, a loss of 16,000 sq km (https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2022/09/europe/russia-territory-control-ukraine-shift-dg/).

Whom should we believe?

[Dragonman]

Russian now controls 108,000 sq.km of Ukraine (besides Crimea) .

In reality, "after seven months of war only 60% of Donetsk can be claimed by Russia, and Luhansk is at the centre of a major Ukrainian offensive. Russian forces could be within hours of losing the strategically significant town of Lyman. Zaporizhzhia's regional capital is very firmly Ukrainian-run, although in reach of Russian missiles, and Ukrainian forces are only a few miles from the city of Kherson" (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63086767).

Since this BBC report 2 days ago, the 5000 or so remaining Russian soldiers in the city of Lyman were "pulled out" (Russian-speak for ignominious retreat) "from the strategically important town of Lyman in eastern Ukraine. Lyman is in the Donetsk region which is one of four that Russian President Vladimir Putin proclaimed to be part of Russia only the day before." (https://www.dw.com/en/russian-military-confirms-pull-out-of-lyman/av-63309351). As the Washington Post headlined this retreat, "Russian troops withdraw from Lyman, a day after annexation claims." This was explained as "“In connection with the creation of a threat of encirclement, the allied troops were withdrawn” from Lyman “to more advantageous lines,” Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov said Saturday" Moreover, although Putin has signed the accord with the Russian installed puppet governments in the four regions, the fact that the accession treaties have yet to be rubber-stamped and ratified by Russia’s parliament leaves the situation unclear. ((https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/10/01/ukaine-russia-lyman-donetsk-annexation/).

Interestingly, the officer leading the defense of Lyman is/was "Col. Gen. Alexander Lapin," a surname I believe translates as "One who had big feet" (https://forebears.io/surnames/lapin). Given that "lapin," according to Merriam-Webster, also means "a surgically castrated male rabbit," perhaps the Russian retreat is an example of nominative determinism or name-driven outcome.

So much for "control."

[Dragonman]

For months this board has carried complaints about the "neo-Nazis" in Ukraine and their existence as the reason for launching the "special military operation" by the Russian Federation to "denazify and demilitarize" the Ukraine.

Less common, however, have been postings concerning the neo-Nazis fighting on the Russian side, particularly those related to the Wagner Group and its "Task Force Rusich."

In the news now, however, are reports concerning this "Task Force Rusich," which "advises its fighters not to report the capture of Ukrainians to Russian commanders" and "is inciting atrocities against prisoners of war and explicitly advocates the torture of captives including “removing body parts."

"“Despite Putin’s claims, the actions of Rusich in the conflict demonstrate the concerning prominence of neo-Nazi groups committing atrocities on behalf of the Kremlin.” (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/02/pro-kremlin-neo-nazi-militia-inciting-torture-murder-ukrainian-prisoners; https://news.yahoo.com/russian-neo-nazi-militia-fighting-124604373.html).

Wikipedia's article on the Wagner Group refers to this Task Force and includes a photo of its badge - an eight-spoked version of the Nazi hakenkreuz.

Another example of the total hypocrisy of Putin and his supporters.

[Moses]

For months this board has carried complaints about the "neo-Nazis" in Ukraine and their existence as the reason for launching the "special military operation" by the Russian Federation to "denazify and demilitarize" the Ukraine.

Less common, however, have been postings concerning the neo-Nazis fighting on the Russian side, particularly those related to the Wagner Group and its "Task Force Rusich."

In the news now, however, are reports concerning this "Task Force Rusich," which "advises its fighters not to report the capture of Ukrainians to Russian commanders" and "is inciting atrocities against prisoners of war and explicitly advocates the torture of captives including “removing body parts."

"“Despite Putin’s claims, the actions of Rusich in the conflict demonstrate the concerning prominence of neo-Nazi groups committing atrocities on behalf of the Kremlin.” (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/02/pro-kremlin-neo-nazi-militia-inciting-torture-murder-ukrainian-prisoners; https://news.yahoo.com/russian-neo-nazi-militia-fighting-124604373.html).

Wikipedia's article on the Wagner Group refers to this Task Force and includes a photo of its badge - an eight-spoked version of the Nazi hakenkreuz.

Another example of the total hypocrisy of Putin and his supporters.

Rusich and Wagner are employed by DNR. Milchakov - lider of Rusich is wanted by police in Russia. As soon as DNR will be part of Russia, he will run out of DNR - maybe to Syria or Mali.

The main difference btw Russia and Ukraine is: in Russia Nazi aren't part of Russian army, while Azov and other battalions of Nazi are part of Ukrainian army. Ukraine support and supplies them. West supports and supplies them. Shame.

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[Dragonman]

Rusich and Wagner are employed by DNR. Milchakov - lider of Rusich is wanted by police in Russia. As soon as DNR will be part of Russia, he will run out of DNR - maybe to Syria or Mali.

The main difference btw Russia and Ukraine is: in Russia Nazi aren't part of Russian army, while Azov and other battalions of Nazi are part of Ukrainian army. Ukraine support and supplies them. West supports and supplies them. Shame.

You forgot to mention that the two founders of Task Force Rusich - Alexey Yurevich Milchakov and Yan Igorevich Petrovskiy - are Russians.

Since last week, at least according to Putin and his fake referenda, the Donestsk People's Republic IS part Russia, so has Milchakov been arrested yet?

Of course not, since he withdrew from the DNR earlier this year, and sent out a cryptocurrency appeal on June 16 stating that "the unit has withdrawn to territory of Russia for understaffing and rest" in order "to recruit new specialists" (i.e., while in Russia) and "to put our health in order (unfortunately, a large number of the wounded take time to recover), and equipment." The appeal lists the equipment for which they are seeking funds - in Russia.

You can see the report on TFR and its appeal to Russians for cryptocurrency at https://www.trmlabs.com/post/who-is-task-force-rusich-the-neo-nazi-paramilitary-group-sanctioned-by-ofac-yesterday. The account to donate to is at Sberbank, which is a Russian majority state-owned banking and financial services company headquartered in Moscow, which apparently does business with terrorists as well.

The report is dated 16 September 2022, and is based on information from the U.S. Treasury’s Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC).

[Moses]

Since last week, at least according to Putin and his fake referenda, the Donestsk People's Republic IS part Russia, so has Milchakov been arrested yet?

Of course not,

"Of course not". You again wrong.

Because these regions aren't part of Russia yet. Today Duma may approve law about these regions, then Senate will do it, I think on this week, then law will be published and take power in 10 days after publication.

Only then regions officially will became part of Russia and authorities will be installed in regions. As per plan, published by govt these regions will be in full included in Russian economy till 2026, like it was with Crimea in 2014-2017.

But I like fact what you don't deny - West supports and supplies Nazi. Shame. Remember: you support them:

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[Dragonman]

"Of course not". You again wrong.

Because these regions aren't part of Russia yet. Today Duma may approve law about these regions, then Senate will do it, I think on this week, then law will be published and take power in 10 days after publication.

Only then regions officially will became part of Russia and authorities will be installed in regions. As per plan, published by govt these regions will be in full included in Russian economy till 2026, like it was with Crimea in 2014-2017.

But I like fact what you don't deny - West supports and supplies Nazi. Shame. Remember: you support them:

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Last week you were boasting about the size of the Ukrainian territory that Russia now "controlled" (sic), but now you admit the territories are not yet part of Russia because the Duma has not yet ratified Putin's decree. You really need to think about what you post as you contradict yourself.

As the report to which I posted a link was about the Task Force Rusich appealing to Russians to deposit cryptocurrency in an account with Sberbank, a major Russian bank and financial institution, I would argue that the fact that the TFR has a Russian bank account is tantamount to an admission that the Russian state (which owns Sberbank) is actively supporting a Neo-Nazi group. If it were not, it would have closed the account.

I fail to see how you could construe anything I post as meaning the West or I support Nazis. Nowhere in any of my postings have I made such a statement, nor have I made any statements about Ukraine's inclusion of the Azov Brigade in their armed forces. If I were to comment on it, I would suggest that the Ukrainians are acting on an old saying - "Keep you friends close and your enemies closer" (I believe it translates as "держи друзей близко, а врагов еще ближе").

As you continue to post photos of Nazi groups without citing any sources for them, I am beginning to think that they represent various Russian or East European cosplay groups, rather than actual Neo-Nazi ones. Posting photos of isolated groups out of context proves nothing about them. They could be stills from Russian or East European movies.

There is another saying that comes to mind, too, in connection with Russia's self-proclaimed aversion to Nazism while funding and employing Neo-Nazi groups, from the play "Hamlet" - "The lady doth protest too much, methinks" (commonly misquoted as "Methinks the lady doth protest too much").

As for Russian "authorities" being installed in the regions Russia has claimed to have annexed, I doubt that will happen any time soon as Russian forces still seem to be advancing backwards.

[Moses]

As you continue to post photos of Nazi groups without citing any sources for them, I am beginning to think that they represent various Russian or East European cosplay groups, rather than actual Neo-Nazi ones. Posting photos of isolated groups out of context proves nothing about them. They could be stills from Russian or East European movies.


Yeah, Ukrainian "cosplay groups" are marching by Ukrainian streets... how pitiful your explanations look

Watch: you supporting them... Shame

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[Moses]

Meanwhile:

Poland just send diplomatic note to Germany with demands $1300 bln of reparations.

Reuters: OPEC+ will consider an oil output cut of more than a million barrels per day (bpd) next week, OPEC sources said on Sunday

Looks like something is going against plans.

[Dragonman]

Yeah, Ukrainian "cosplay groups" are marching by Ukrainian streets... how pitiful your explanations look

Watch: you supporting them... Shame

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You don't provide evidence that this is not a still from a film, though.

As I am unfamiliar with Ukrainian cities, I cannot confirm that this is anywhere in Ukraine. Once again, you fail to provide a source, but then say that by doubting the provenance of the photo I am supporting Nazis. You are beginning to repeat yourself, a sign that you no longer believe in what you are writing.

[Dragonman]

Meanwhile:

Poland just send diplomatic note to Germany with demands $1300 bln of reparations.

Reuters: OPEC+ will consider an oil output cut of more than a million barrels per day (bpd) next week, OPEC sources said on Sunday

Looks like something is going against plans.

As usual, you are misquoting - Poland didn't "just send" such thing.

"Poland will send Germany a diplomatic note on war reparations by the end of the year, a Polish deputy foreign minister has said" (https://www.thefirstnews.com/article/diplomatic-note-to-germany-on-reparations-by-years-end-32927). It cites a figure for Polish war damage of EUR 1.3 trillion but does not cite a sum for reparations claimed.

"Poland to send diplomatic note to Germany over war reparations ‘in weeks’: deputy FM" (https://www.polskieradio.pl/395/7784/Artykul/3037210,Poland-to-send-diplomatic-note-to-Germany-over-war-reparations-%E2%80%98in-weeks%E2%80%99-deputy-FM). Again, no sum mentioned.

There are multiple such reports from the first two weeks of September, but nothing more recent.

In any case, the Polish figure cited is much less than what the Namibians demanded last year: "'We want trillions to heal our wounds," 7 August 2021 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-57961151). Other African countries similarly want reparations - "Africa revives push for colonial-era reparations. For years, Africa's push for reparations from European nations for colonial-era wrongs has been piecemeal. Now the continent wants to consolidate ongoing campaigns" (https://www.dw.com/en/africa-revives-push-for-colonial-era-reparations/a-62710366).

If this goes on, European countries will be demanding reparations for the invasions by the Huns, the Avars (as in "avaricious"), the Goths, the Vandals (as in "vandalism"), the Turks and the Arabs (who conquered and settled parts of Spain and Italy), and maybe even the Mongols who invaded Georgia and Armenia, Asiatic peoples all of whom at one time or another in history invaded and colonized parts of Europe. Or even from the Arab people's of North Africa for the Barbary Pirates slave raids on Europe. As the western saying goes, "What is sauce for the goose, is sauce for the gander" (meaning "what is acceptable for one person in a particular situation should be acceptable for another person in a similar situation").

If you read the full OPEC+ report, you will see why such a course of action might be pursued: "The meeting will take place on Oct. 5 against the backdrop of falling oil prices and months of severe market volatility which prompted top OPEC+ producer, Saudi Arabia, to say the group could cut production. OPEC+, which combines OPEC countries and allies such as Russia, has refused to raise output to lower oil prices despite pressure from major consumers, including the United States, to help the global economy. Prices have nevertheless fallen sharply in the last month due to fears about the global economy and a rally in the U.S. dollar after the Federal Reserves raised rates.

Lower economic growth as one of the consequences of Russia's "special military operation" means less business activity, which means less demand for oil. This combination of a moderately increased supply and a reduction in demand has allowed prices to cool off.

Sure does look like Russia's plan to make money from oil is working, doesn't it.

[Moses]

How pitiful your explanations look...

Minster of culture of Ukraine Nischuk declares citizens of the East of Ukraine "dirty genetic material" in explanation why they will never adapted to "real Ukrainian culture" on Ukrainian TV (Ukrainian lang).


https://youtu.be/cXSmRGses_w

[Moses]

Lower economic growth as one of the consequences of Russia's "special military operation" means less business activity, which means less demand for oil. This combination of a moderately increased supply and a reduction in demand has allowed prices to cool off.

Sure does look like Russia's plan to make money from oil isn't working.


Don't repeat propaganda, you look pitiful. Just today Standard and Poor's published report about highest industrial activity in Russia since 2019.


The S&P Global Russia Manufacturing PMI climbed to 52.0 in September 2022 from 51.7 in August. The reading pointed to the fifth straight month of expansion in factory activity, and was the strongest growth since March 2019, supported by increases in production and new orders, as client demand picked up. Output growth strongest since February 2021, while new orders rose at a faster. Employment increased, as backlogs of work declined markedly. On the price front, input price inflation eased, due to reductions in some material and energy prices. Meanwhile, output prices fell slightly on lower costs to clients, where input prices had decreased. Finally, the sentiment improved to the highest since March 2019, amid greater new order inflows

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https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/manufacturing-pmi

[Dragonman]

Don't repeat propaganda, you look pitiful. Just today Standard and Poor's published report about highest industrial activity in Russia since 2019.

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https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/manufacturing-pmi

More tangents.

1. "Lower economic growth" was a reference to worldwide economic growth, not to Russian economic growth. As the world economy has slowed down, the demand for oil has slowed down. A report from Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/russian-economy-contract-29-2022-economy-minister-2022-09-06/) noted, though "Economy ministry revises economic forecasts. Expects GDP to contract 2.9% in 2022, 0.9% in 2023. Economy seen growing 2.6% in 2024."

2. The S&P report was not about industrial activity in general. The Global Russia Manufacturing PMI refers to the manufacturing sector specifically. My comment was specifically, "Sure does look like Russia's plan to make money from oil isn't working." That is, something totally different.

3. I don't know if the video was posted in response to something I wrote but, as it is in Ukrainian without subtitles I cannot comment either on it or on the context in which the video was taken. I believe the speaker, however, is not the current Minister of Culture in Ukraine.

[Dodger]

The transportation hub of Lyman has been liberated and the Ukrainian military is now advancing into the Luhansk region.

Putin is apparently blaming the Wests modern weapons and NATO's intelligence support for this defeat.

I'm not quite sure what Putin is getting at considering the fact that the Wests provision of modern weapons and NATO's intelligence support have been ongoing since the beginning of his war???

Just for the record, no one in the West is even talking about "Nazi's" anymore relative to Putin's War. That bullshit tactic of Putin's was dismissed (and actually being laughed about) since the first day that his invasion into Ukraine was launched. Even school children understand that this war of Putin's has absolutely nothing to do with Nazi's.

[Dragonman]

How pitiful your explanations look...

Minster of culture of Ukraine Nischuk declares citizens of the East of Ukraine "dirty genetic material" in explanation why they will never adapted to "real Ukrainian culture" on Ukrainian TV (Ukrainian lang).


https://youtu.be/cXSmRGses_w

I note that, in posting this video, and photos for which you still do not provide the provenance but use as a pitiful excuse to accuse me of supporting Nazis, that you very, very carefully did not deny that the Russian Federation supports Trust Force Rusich to the extent of permitting them to hold a bank account in SberBank (the Moscow-headquartered Russian majority state-owned banking and financial services company that accounts for about a third of all bank assets in Russia) to which supporters can contribute, or that it allowed its leaders and forces to retire to the Russian Federation to rest, recuperate, regroup, and recruit.

You have just tacitly admitted what you have denied previously - the Russian Federation supports and uses Neo-Nazi groups in its military operations. Shame on them and shame on you!

[Dodger]

It must be nice to be so popular:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B84TbEZgSeE

[cdnmatt]

Sounds to me like Ukraine is kicking ass and taking names:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4Gg33r-pks

[Moses]

Meanwhile:

Poland just send diplomatic note to Germany with demands $1300 bln of reparations.

Reuters: OPEC+ will consider an oil output cut of more than a million barrels per day (bpd) next week, OPEC sources said on Sunday

Looks like something is going against plans.



If you read the full OPEC+ report, you will see why such a course of action might be pursued: "The meeting will take place on Oct. 5 against the backdrop of falling oil prices and months of severe market volatility which prompted top OPEC+ producer, Saudi Arabia, to say the group could cut production. OPEC+, which combines OPEC countries and allies such as Russia, has refused to raise output to lower oil prices despite pressure from major consumers, including the United States, to help the global economy. Prices have nevertheless fallen sharply in the last month due to fears about the global economy and a rally in the U.S. dollar after the Federal Reserves raised rates.

Lower economic growth as one of the consequences of Russia's "special military operation" means less business activity, which means less demand for oil. This combination of a moderately increased supply and a reduction in demand has allowed prices to cool off.

Sure does look like Russia's plan to make money from oil is working, doesn't it.

Plan is working: today OPEC+ cutted oil output: minus 2 mln barrels...

Biden-Alzheimer already said what he is "disappointed".

[Dragonman]

Plan is working: today OPEC+ cutted oil output: minus 2 mln barrels...

Biden-Alzheimer already said what he is "disappointed".

The OPEC countries are desperate because of the growing fears about the prospect of a global economic recession. Oil prices now are around $US80 dollars per barrel, rather than the $US120 they were in early June.

Although the cut is described as "deep," it is a cut of 2 million barrels per day, while leaving daily production at around 40 million barrels per day.

To put the move in context, it represents a major reversal in production policy for OPEC+, which slashed output by 10 million barrels per day in early 2020 when demand fell precipitously because of the Covid-19 pandemic. OPEC+ has since gradually undone those cuts, with several OPEC+ countries struggling to fulfill their quotas.

Although Biden may have expressed disappointment, he called on his administration and Congress to explore ways to boost U.S. energy production and reduce OPEC's control over energy prices after the cartel's "shortsighted" production cut.

"Biden-Alzheimer" is a schoolyard taunt, which says more about the person doing the taunting that the target.

[Moses]

"Biden-Alzheimer" is a schoolyard taunt, which says more about the person doing the taunting that the target.

"Target" is visible out of mind:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4b131aHxCs


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiOO0M5LNEo


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKg8I9a7PbU

[Dragonman]

The fact that you have searched out more clips of Biden merely reinforces my original comment about your obsession.

By the way, have you read this report? "Milton Keynes company claims to have ‘diagnosed’ Russia president Putin with a serious health problem
They analysed nearly 2,000 voice segments of Putin's speech to come up with the verdict" (https://www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/people/milton-keynes-company-claims-to-have-diagnosed-russia-president-putin-with-a-serious-health-problem-3866860). The article is from Tuesday, October 4, 2022.

"The results clearly indicate a "marked and sudden deterioration” in his condition, it is claimed. They show he exhibited some voice characteristics associated with Parkinson's Disease in the early years, followed by a gradual worsening. But they found a “significant increase” in these voice characteristics happened in April 2022. This has a “high correlation” to Parkinson’s disease and may indicate a sudden neurological deterioration due to Parkinson's or a related neurological disorder, allege the experts."

"Parkinson's progressively damages parts of the brain over many years. The three main symptoms of are involuntary shaking of particular parts of the body (tremor), slow movement and stiff and inflexible muscles. Some people experience changes in cognitive function, including problems with attention, memory and the ability to plan and accomplish tasks."

The last sentence is clearly relevant to the current debacle of the "special military operation," where Russian forces continue to advance backwards from Lunhansk and Kherson (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/10/05/ukraine-russia-war-latest-putin-nuclear-convoy-kherson-counter/; https://www.politico.eu/article/volodymyr-zelenskyy-ukraine-russia-war-vladimir-putin-hails-fast-kherson-luhansk/). And maybe even Crimea (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/ukraine-could-recapture-crimea-as-fleeing-russians-continue-to-flounder/ar-AA12DPY8?cvid=d38a6dd8c4db457c89a9f896501c464c)( By Sergei Kuznetsov, October 5, 2022 3:05 pm).

In the interests of good taste and good manners, I shall refrain from referring to President Putin-Parkinson.

[Dragonman]

Earlier, you were commenting on how the effect of NATO supplying weapons to Ukraine was influencing the war (as I believe Russian TV commentators now openly call it) in Ukraine.

I'm sure you will be impressed to learn that NATO is now not the biggest arms supplier to Ukraine, that position having be taken by the advancing backwards Russian troops - see "Ukraine’s New Offensive Is Fueled by Captured Russian Weapons. Tanks, howitzers and ammunition left behind by retreating Russian forces are now being used against their former owners" (https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraines-new-offensive-is-fueled-by-captured-russian-weapons-11664965264, by Yaroslav Trofimov, chief foreign-affairs correspondent at The Wall Street Journal. Updated Oct. 5, 2022 11:56 am ET).

Apparently, Ukraine's breakthrough "month ago ended up putting hundreds of pieces of Russian armor into Kyiv’s hands, military officials say, as the Russian army left behind its heavy weapons and warehouses of supplies in a disorganized retreat. .Some Russian pieces of equipment were ready for immediate use, while others are being repaired to return to the front. Tanks, vehicles and guns too damaged to salvage are being cannibalized for spare parts. Crucially, Russia has also left behind large quantities of Soviet-standard artillery shells that had nearly run out in Ukraine."

"One Ukrainian battalion, the Carpathian Sich, seized 10 modern T-80 tanks and five 2S5 Giatsint 152-mm self-propelled howitzers after it entered the town of Izyum last month, said its deputy chief of staff, Ruslan Andriyko. “We’ve got so many trophies that we don’t even know what to do with them,” he said. “We started off as an infantry battalion, and now we are sort of becoming a mechanized battalion.”

"Combined with weapons taken during Russia’s retreat from Kyiv and other parts of northern Ukraine in April, these recent gains have turned Moscow into by far the largest supplier of heavy weapons for Ukraine, well ahead of the U.S. or other allies in sheer numbers, according to open-source intelligence analysts. Western-provided weapons, though, are usually more advanced and precise."

But with enemies like that, who needs friends?

[Moses]

"Combined with weapons taken during Russia’s retreat from Kyiv and other parts of northern Ukraine in April, these recent gains have turned Moscow into by far the largest supplier of heavy weapons for Ukraine, well ahead of the U.S. or other allies in sheer numbers, according to open-source intelligence analysts. Western-provided weapons, though, are usually more advanced and precise."

But with enemies like that, who needs friends?

Russia always was the biggest Ukrainian supplier. Even now via NATO Ukraine receives the same Russian weapon: tanks from Poland, Czech rep. and other countries of Easter Europe. Even US send to Ukraine Russian helicopters, the same Poland and CR, and also Russian aircrafts like SU.

[Moses]

Zelensky calls on NATO to launch a preemptive strike to prevent Russia from using nuclear weapons
9:41 pm, October 6, 2022 Source: Ukrinform
Ukrainian president Vladimir Zelensky announced that NATO should preemptively strike Russia, in order to “exclude the possibility of use of nuclear weapons by Russia.”

He sees his end and demands NATO to be involved into war.

[Dragonman]

Russia always was the biggest Ukrainian supplier. Even now via NATO Ukraine receives the same Russian weapon: tanks from Poland, Czech rep. and other countries of Easter Europe. Even US send to Ukraine Russian helicopters, the same Poland and CR, and also Russian aircrafts like SU.

The difference being, of course, that these weapons are being given away by Russia, not sold, and will probably be upgraded to meet Ukraine's new military standards.

[Dragonman]

Zelensky calls on NATO to launch a preemptive strike to prevent Russia from using nuclear weapons
9:41 pm, October 6, 2022 Source: Ukrinform
Ukrainian president Vladimir Zelensky announced that NATO should preemptively strike Russia, in order to “exclude the possibility of use of nuclear weapons by Russia.”

He sees his end and demands NATO to be involved into war.

One website stating the Zelenskiy has called for a pre-emptive strike is Meduza (https://meduza.io/en/news/2022/10/06/zelensky-calls-on-nato-to-launch-a-preemptive-strike-to-prevent-russia-from-using-nuclear-weapons), which bills itself as "A digest of Russia’s investigative reports and news analysis. If it matters, we summarize it."

Ukinform (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-polytics/3587693-media-incorrectly-quoting-zelenskys-words-about-preemptive-strike-against-russia-press-secretary.html), however, carries this report: "Ukrainian presidential press secretary Serhii Nykyforov has denied the incorrect quoting by some media outlets of Volodymyr Zelensky's words about "preemptive strikes" against Russia if it decides to use nuclear weapons. He said this on his Facebook page, Ukrinform reports. "The president spoke about the period before February 24. At that time, it was necessary to apply preventive measures to prevent Russia from starting a war. Let me remind you that the only measures that were discussed at that time were preemptive sanctions," Nykyforov said."

See also https://kyivindependent.com/news-feed/zelenskys-staff-forced-to-clarify-statement-after-president-suggests-preventive-strike-on-russia: "President Volodymyr Zelensky, in his speech on Oct. 6, said NATO's role was to make it impossible for Russia to use nuclear weapons. He appealed to the international community "before Feb. 24, to do preemptive strikes, so they know what will happen to them if they use it, and not vice versa - to wait for nuclear strikes by Russia."

I guess you forgot that President Putin has been using nuclear blackmail in an attempt to slow down Ukraine's counteroffensive: "When its territorial integrity is threatened, Russia will use everything it can, this is not a bluff," Putin said on Sept. 21, hinting at the use of nuclear arms" (https://www.allsides.com/story/world-putin-moves-bolster-military-amid-ukrainian-counteroffensive). Also "Putin threatens nuclear war. The West must deter disaster" (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/10/03/putin-nuclear-war-ukraine-deter/): "Twice recently, Russian President Vladimir Putin has raised the prospect of using nuclear weapons in the war he launched to destroy Ukraine. With Russian forces retreating in Ukraine’s Donbas region, Mr. Putin’s threats amount to desperate saber-rattling intended to frighten all. But his threats must not be brushed off completely, given Mr. Putin’s record of folly and recklessness."

Now, Russia complains when there is a possibility the tables will be turned.

Next, Putin will be crying for his mother.

[Moses]

Next, Putin will be crying for his mother.

You forgot: 145:22. Ukrainian end is unavoidable. The only question: how much it will cost to Russia and West.

[cdnmatt]

You forgot: 145:22. Ukrainian end is unavoidable. The only question: how much it will cost to Russia and West.

About 6 months ago you were absolutely certain the war would be over in 2 or 3 weeks, and nowadays Ukraine is pushing Russian forces back quite a bit.

Wouldn't be so sure of yourself.

[cdnmatt]

Besides, what a horrible military strategy. Absolutely no regards for the human life of your own citizens and just "it's ok, we have more cannon fodder than they do, so we'll eventually win". That seems to be the strategy.

Ever heard of the Art of War by Sun Tzu? Putin may want to give it a read.

[Dragonman]

You forgot: 145:22. Ukrainian end is unavoidable. The only question: how much it will cost to Russia and West.

Correction: 141:43.8 (https://www.worlddata.info/country-comparison.php?country1=RUS&country2=UKR).

The Russian figure is adjusted to represent the 4 million who have left since the beginning of the "special military operation" (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/30/more-than-4-million-flee-russia-senseless-war-on-ukraine-says-un). Of course, since the "special mobilization" began, more have left, particularly males of fighting age. I doubt whether even Putin will mobilize babushkas.

The population of the English 13 American colonies in 1776 was estimated White 1,941,609, and Black 524,588 (native Americans were not counted). The population of the UK was estimated In 1775 at 8,000,000 people; 2,350,000 of these could be considered the military manpower of the nation. (https://www.encyclopedia.com/history/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/populations-great-britain-and-america).

Who won?

[cdnmatt]

Correction: 141:43.8


It doesn't matter. Ukrainians are basically the modern day version of Spartans. Russia can not win, and they will not win:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJJxWdJVpvU

Russia can try all they want, but they already lost this war long ago.

[cdnmatt]

It's at the point where Russians are even fleeing to Alaska, and seeking asylum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_TJ4zuSYco

This would be funny if it wasn't real.

[Dodger]

It's at the point where Russians are even fleeing to Alaska, and seeking asylum.

Peter The Great must be turning in his grave.

I never realized it but 77% of Russian territory is SIBERIA which once belonged to China. Can you imagine what it would be like if the Chinese decided to annex Siberia???

Like Alaska, a cold and miserable place, which would explain why all the Oligarchs live in Miami.

[Moses]

It doesn't matter. Ukrainians are basically the modern day version of Spartans. Russia can not win, and they will not win:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJJxWdJVpvU

Russia can try all they want, but they already lost this war long ago.

You forgot to mention, what Ukrainians also Supermans, Batmans, Spider-Mans, Hals Jordan, Thors and Invisible Womans...

[Moses]

Today is October 7th. 21 years ago US have started military intervention against Taliban in Afghanistan.

Afghanistan is now controlled by Taliban, US ran from country in 2021 after 20 years of failures.

Total killed: 176,206 (per Brown University) 212,191+ (per UCDP)

[Moses]

Yeah, show them who is World Super Power!


US Rep. Ro Khanna is calling for the White House to retaliate against Saudi Arabia if OPEC and its allies slash oil production in a bid to boost prices.

“This is beyond the pale,” the California Democrat told CNN in a phone interview on Monday. “They are actively fleecing the American people and destabilizing the economy. That’s just outrageous. Who do they think they are?”

Oil prices surged more than 5% Monday on reports that Saudi-led OPEC and its allies, known as OPEC+, plan to sharply cut oil output by more than 1 million barrels per day. Such a move would be the largest production cuts since 2020 and could be announced on Wednesday when the group meets in Vienna.

“It’s outrageous. The Saudis need to be dealt with harshly,” said Khanna, a progressive who has been a tough critic of the kingdom’s humanitarian track record. “They are a third-rate power. We are the most powerful country in the world. I don’t know why we kowtow to them.”

[Dragonman]

You forgot to mention, what Ukrainians also Supermans, Batmans, Spider-Mans, Hals Jordan, Thors and Invisible Womans...

They may not be quite such heroes, but they have been good enough to shatter the morale of Putin's private mercenary force, the Wagner Group - see "Morale is plummeting in Putin’s private army as Russia’s war in Ukraine falters" (https://edition.cnn.com/2022/10/06/europe/wagner-ukraine-struggles-marat-gabidullin-cmd-intl/index.html). Note that the billboard displayed at the beginning of the report is displayed in Russia, more evidence that the Russian Federation supports this Neo-Nazi group, founded by one of Putin's closest allies, Yevgeny Prigozhin - "Putin ally admits he created the Wagner mercenary group linked to wartime atrocities: 'I cleaned old weapons myself" (https://news.yahoo.com/putin-ally-admits-created-wagner-171446334.html).

More Russian lies exposed.

[Dragonman]

Today is October 7th. 21 years ago US have started military intervention against Taliban in Afghanistan.

Afghanistan is now controlled by Taliban, US ran from country in 2021 after 20 years of failures.

Total killed: 176,206 (per Brown University) 212,191+ (per UCDP)

In comparison, in the brutal nine-year conflict (December 24, 1979 – February 15, 1989) of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, an estimated one million civilians were killed, as well as 90,000 Mujaheddin fighters, 18,000 Afghan troops, and 14,500-15,000 Soviet soldiers. The civil war that raged after the withdrawal set the stage for the Taliban's takeover of the country in 1996.

As in Ukraine, the Soviet-Russian army committed numerous war crimes, including massacres, rapes, wanton destruction, torture, and looting.

The reason why the Taliban controlled Afghanistan when the US invaded was because of the failures of the Soviet army. The failure of the Soviet army in Afghanistan was a contributing factor in the disintegration of the Soviet Union.

Perhaps Putin should have remembered what happened the last time Russian forces entered an independent country.

At least this time it hasn't taken the Russians nine years to retreat - they are retreating after not even nine months this time!

And remember than in 1979 the population of the Soviet Union was over 262,000,000 million while that of Afghanistan was around 13.4,000,000, i.e. 262:13.4. A massive imbalance - in Afghan favor, obviously.

[Moses]

Wagner group is private company. Nazi battalions Azov, Aydar and other are part of Ukrainian army. Shame on you. Pitiful attempts to advocate Nazi Ukraine...

BBC about Azov:

Run by the extremist Patriot of Ukraine organisation, which considers Jews and other minorities "sub-human" and calls for a white, Christian crusade against them, it sports three Nazi symbols on its insignia: a modified Wolf's Hook, a black sun (or "Hakensonne") and the title Black Corps, which was used by the Waffen SS.

12809

[Moses]

And remember than in 1979 the population of the Soviet Union was over 262,000,000 million while that of Afghanistan was around 13.4,000,000, i.e. 262:13.4. A massive imbalance - in Afghan favor, obviously.

US population is 300 000 000 did it help US to win?

[cdnmatt]

Moses, you don't seem to understand how this whole thing works. You do realize we're now at the point where Russians are risking their lives by taking small boats across the Artic Ocean to Alaska to apply for asylum, right? At what point do you Russians realize this isn't going in your favor? If current reports are to be believed, Russia is currently bleeding 350,000 military aged men a week as they flee the country in all directions.

At what point do you Russians realize this entire war was a total sham and lie? There was never a threat to Russia. It was totally made up by some old dude named Putin who was on a power trip, but at no time was there an actual threat to Russia. Nobody has any desire to invade Russia.

You do realize that Ukrainian forces are retaking their land every single day, and yet, the West has yet to engage, right? You know there's at least 140,000 NATO soldiers, several fleets of F-35s and son waiting in the wings on the border of Ukrain, willing to engage at any givem moment, right? Russia can't even handle the Ukrainian military, so how do you think it'll go if NATO and the US engages?

If you want to know what's going on over here in the West, we're all just kind of hanging out waiting for you Russians to get your shit together, march on the Kremlim, and let Putin know he's no longer President.

You're being fed propoganda. We're your friends, not your enemy. If you want a war though, then I promise you the West will be happy to finish it.

[Dragonman]

Wagner group is private company. Nazi battalions Azov, Aydar and other are part of Ukrainian army. Shame on you. Pitiful attempts to advocate Nazi Ukraine...

BBC about Azov:


12809

Another unsourced and undate photo that says nothing. The BBC report, however, is from 2014: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30414955. The opening paragraphs of the report are: "Ever since Ukraine's February revolution, the Kremlin has characterised the new leaders in Kiev as a "fascist junta" made up of neo-Nazis and anti-Semites, set on persecuting, if not eradicating, the Russian-speaking population.
This is demonstrably false. Far-right parties failed to pass a 5% barrier to enter parliament, although if they had banded together, and not split their vote, they would have probably slipped past the threshold.
Only one government minister has links to nationalist parties - though he is in no way a neo-Nazi or fascist. And the speaker of parliament, Volodymyr Groysman, is Jewish. He has the third most powerful position in the country after the president and prime minister."

Not at all what you though it meant.

You are repeating yourself, and displaying a lack of knowledge. I believe Russia's constitution does not permit Putin to employ a mercenary army, which is why his friend started the Wagner Group and why Russia has employed it in the Middle East and Ukraine. Ukraine absorbed the Azov Battalion into its armed forces under the former President because it was the better fighting force and because absorption gave the Ukrainian military a measure of control over its operations.

Please find something new on which to comment.

[Dragonman]

US population is 300 000 000 did it help US to win?

At last you get the point!!

The size of the US population did not help them win, anymore that your endless repeating of "You forgot: 145:22. Ukrainian end is unavoidable" is an indication of the outcome of this war, particularly as you even get both population sizes wrong. What applied in the American case also applies here!!

The size of the Russian population will not be a deciding factor in this war. Almost 16% of the Russian population is over 65 years old, about 18% of the population is under the age of 15 years old, and women outnumber men. The size of the population by itself means nothing!

"The only question: how much it will cost to Russia and West" is an indication of the outcome of this "war," as I believe Russian TV commentators are now permitted to call it after it has lasted 7 months and 2 weeks, rather than the couple of days Putin originally thought it would take to conquer Ukraine. From reports of what Russian TV commentators are saying, they are beginning to worry that the cost to Russia may be more than they can comfortably contemplate. I suspect that there will be no safe post-war hiding places for large numbers of Russian politicians and oligarchs in future.

[Dragonman]

Nobel Peace Prize to activists from Belarus, Russia, Ukraine - By Associated Press, 2022/10/07 18:44 Taiwan Time.

" This year’s Nobel Peace Prize was awarded Friday to jailed Belarus rights activist Ales Bialiatski, the Russian group Memorial and the Ukrainian organization Center for Civil Liberties, a strong rebuke to Russia’s President Vladimir Putin on his 70th birthday.
Berit Reiss-Andersen, chair of the Norwegian Nobel Committee, said the panel wanted to honor ”three outstanding champions of human rights, democracy and peaceful coexistence in the neighbor countries Belarus, Russia and Ukraine” (https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4680061).

It's not a rebuke - it's a public slap in the face.

[Moses]

At last you get the point!!

The size of the US population did not help them win, anymore that your endless repeating of "You forgot: 145:22. Ukrainian end is unavoidable" is an indication of the outcome of this war, particularly as you even get both population sizes wrong. What applied in the American case also applies here!!



No. You are wrong as usual. Russia and US have no border with Afghanistan. Afghanistan has a lot of mountains for shelter. The same problem US met in Vietnam and lost. Logistic and support are very complicated.

Russia and Ukraine have mutual border, Ukrainian land is flat till very West part. Logistic is easy, Ukraine has railroads what are connected to Russian railroads. Satellite intelligence is simple. 145:22 will work and end is unavoidable.

[Dragonman]

No. You are wrong as usual. Russia and US have no border with Afghanistan. Afghanistan has a lot of mountains for shelter. The same problem US met in Vietnam and lost. Logistic and support are very complicated.

Russia and Ukraine have mutual border, Ukrainian land is flat till very West part. Logistic is easy, Ukraine has railroads what are connected to Russian railroads. Satellite intelligence is simple. 145:22 will work and end is unavoidable.

Changing the names in what I posted won't help - I referred to the Soviet Union's invasion of Afghanistan, not to a Russian invasion of Afghanistan, in reference to your continued posting of 141:22 ratio - and even that you continue to get wrong as it should be 147 (2021 census): 43 (February 2022).

Let me remind you that, in alphabetical order, the countries bordering the Soviet Union were (according to many sources) Afghanistan, Czechoslovakia, PR China, Finland, Hungary, Iran, North Korea, Mongolia, Norway, Poland, Romania, and Turkey, with shared maritime borders with the USA and Sweden. Having a land border with Afghanistan facilitated both the Soviet invasion - and the ignominious retreat just as the current land border is doing. And remember the population imbalance was 267: 14 or thereabouts in the Soviet favor.

Logistics, in this case, include moving men and materiel to the Ukrainian border from across Russia, given that the mobilization seems to have selected more men from the ethnic republics like Buryatia, Dagestan, etc., that it did from Moscow and St Petersburg, and moving tanks and other weapons from further to the east to replace those gifted to Ukraine by the backwards advance. Russia has been having a logistical nightmare for most of this war (see, e.g., "Ukrainian Resistance, Logistics Nightmares Plague Russian Invaders," https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/2950915/ukrainian-resistance-logistics-nightmares-plague-russian-invaders/), "Putin facing logistical nightmare as Russia failings exposed: ‘No army is this backwards,'" (https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1636270/putin-logistics-russia-military-nightmare-ukraine-war-defence-news), and "Watching Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, I saw logistics flaws" (https://news-decoder.com/watching-russias-invasion-of-ukraine-i-saw-logistics-flaws/).

Ukraine may be flat but the Ukrainians are highly motivated whereas reports seem to indicate that the Russian troops are demoralized - e.g., as they have been from the beginning ("Demoralised Russian soldiers tell of anger at being ‘duped’ into war," https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/04/russian-soldiers-ukraine-anger-duped-into-war) and as they fled in September ("The letters left behind by demoralized Russian soldiers as they fled," https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/09/15/letters-left-behind-by-demoralized-russian-soldiers-they-fled/). Low morale hurts a country fighting a war because those are troops that don't want to take orders, so they won't fight and people won't support the army either. Napoleon's famous aphorism about morale is well-known - “in war the moral is to the physical as three is to one.”

The fact that Russian railways are connected to Ukrainian ones is easily dealt with - the Ukrainians can destroy them.

Of course satellite intelligence is simple - which is why Ukrainians know where the enemy is - "How Private Spy Satellites Help Ukraine's War Effort - WSJ" (https://www.wsj.com/story/how-private-spy-satellites-help-ukraines-war-effort-23eea3d5). They are finding drones to be useful, too.

Putin is not a military genius, despite his claiming to have commanded an artillery battalion during the Soviet period ("Soldier, spy: more details of Vladimir Putin's past revealed," https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/08/soldier-spy-more-details-of-vladimir-putins-past-revealed) and has no first-hand battle experience - he was a spy.

Never underestimate the enemy ― Lao Tzu.

[Dragonman]

I ended my earlier post with a quote from Lao Tzu - "never underestimate the enemy."

The Russian recruits in the following article are an example of what happens when Russian soldiers underestimate the ingenuity and intelligence of Ukrainian teenage girls: "Teen uses dating app to get Russians to reveal their positions. Tom Sanders - Yesterday 8:36 pm," https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/teen-uses-dating-app-to-get-russians-to-reveal-their-positions/ar-AA12HSJ4?cvid=87d707ad9e8a486a93f7b335afb31e04.

The article, complete with photos and names of the Russian soldiers concerned, reads: "A Ukrainian teenager forced out of her home by Russian invaders has turned to technology to get her revenge. She is using a dating app to flirt with enemy soldiers and get them to send her pictures, videos and voicemails. That is leading them to unwittingly give away sensitive information that she is passing on to investigators to help track Russians down. She even got one soldier to reveal the location of a boarding school being used as a base, while another shared pictures of a mansion being used to house a senior officer.
The girl’s action has similarities with – Mata Hari – a Dutch exotic dancer and the archetypal femme fatale who used her charms to seduce and spy for Germany during World War I. But despite their similarities, Lisa- not her real name- took inspiration not from her historical counterpart but from a girl on TikTok who had befriended a Russian soldier and passed his info along to the Ukrainian army. To enact a similar plan, Lisa set up a profile on a dating site claiming to be a young Russian woman in Kherson. She was soon inundated with messages from lonely soldiers stationed in the area looking to get her attention.
Lisa’s unwitting suitors sent her texts, videos and voicemails containing sensitive personal information, which she collected and passed along to journalists working for investigative outlet Slidstvo.info who used the data to verify the soldier’s locations. Once verified, the journalists passed this info over to the Ukrainian Armed Forces. According to MailOnline, Lisa expresses no remorse for her actions as ‘They are all criminals because they crossed another country’s border with weapons’. ‘They came to steal, to kill.’
One of her victims, a hapless teenage recruit named Nikolai Izmailov, bragged about how he was going to ‘kill khokhols [Russian slang for Ukrainians]’, and sent her videos of himself posing alongside helicopters at an airbase in occupied Kherson. Izmailov showed her footage of the aircraft taking off and said they were going on a raid to ‘drop the rockets’ in Kharkiv and Odessa.
Another soldier, Ilgis Hafizov, 24, from western Russia, said he was serving to save up for his wedding, but after breaking up with his fiancée decided to buy a car instead. ‘I’m saving up for a BMW,’ he boasted.
Journalists also managed to track down the location of a mansion being used to house a top Russian officer after another recruit- Daniil Lapyshev, from Siberia- sent her pictures and voicemails describing his unit’s location dug into bunkers in nearby woods.
Lisa, who fled Kherson last month, said her life had been shattered by the invasion. ‘It makes me really angry when they tell me they are doing fine,’ she was quoted saying in MailOnline. ‘We left our native home and cannot return there now, but they are sitting there and fine. ‘They are happy as if nothing bad is happening.’"

The article gives a whole new meaning to "Russian Intelligence," particularly when one remembers that part of Putin's career was as a KGB intelligence officer.

[Dodger]

Well, if things couldn't get worse for Putin, his Prize Crimea Bridge just got bombed.

What kind of emotional tantrum will he have now, e.g., send more untrained troops to their sacrificial slaughter, order the bombing of a nuclear facility somewhere to cause mass human casualties and fuck up the environment, launch a gas attack on the Ukrainian civilian population? Who knows.

I read an interesting piece this morning which theorized that the bombing on the Bridge was only intended to rid the bridge of civilian motorists for a while - to pave the way for a second bombing intended to completely destroy the bridge.

Can't wait to see Putin's poker-face when that happens.

[Dragonman]

Putin has been silent on two other issues, too, perhaps because they highlight the shaky foundations of his claim to Crimea and other Ukrainian territories.

One is the Ukraine's repeated statement in recent days that it recognizes the Kuril Islands (or the Northern Territories) as Japanese territory.

The 1952 Treaty of San Francisco stated that Japan had to give up "all right, title and claim to the Kuril Islands," but it also does "not recognize the Soviet Union's sovereignty over them." Japan claims that at least some of the disputed islands are not a part of the Kuril Islands, and thus are not covered by the treaty, and that the Russian Federation, as the Soviet Union's successor, occupies them illegally. For example, "Ukrainian Parliament recognizes Japanese sovereignty over Kuril Islands, disputed with Russia" (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/ukrainian-parliament-recognizes-japanese-sovereignty-over-kuril-islands-disputed-with-russia/ar-AA12JJ2J?ocid=mailsignout&pc=U591&cvid=8e924185d97b4163b6f6f7bd6784965d), and "Ukraine recognizes as Japanese territory islands also claimed by Russia" (https://www.aa.com.tr/en/asia-pacific/ukraine-recognizes-as-japanese-territory-islands-also-claimed-by-russia/2705740).

The same treaty required Japan to give up control of Formosa/Taiwan and the Pescadores/Penghu Islands but is silent on to whom they were to belong - "while the legal status of the island of Taiwan is temporarily undetermined, it would be resolved at a later time in accordance with the principles of peaceful settlement of disputes and self-determination" (sic).

The second is the referendum in the Czech Republic on Kaliningrad, formerly Konigsberg and the capital of Prussia - "A referendum for Kaliningrad was held on Twitter, now it is a part of the Czech Republic called Královec. The President of Slovakia is thinking about the official visit" (https://mezha.media/en/2022/10/07/kralovec-referendum/), and "Putin’s Land Grab Mocked by Czechs With Fake Kaliningrad Claim" (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-06/putin-s-land-grab-mocked-by-czechs-with-fake-kaliningrad-claim). According to The Jerusalem Post, "Social network users announced that 97.9% of Kaliningrad residents supported joining the Czech Republic, changing the name of the region to Královec" (https://www.jpost.com/omg/article-719151).

Putin and the Russian Federation have descended to the level of a (sad, bad) joke from which they may never recover.

[Moses]

Putin has been silent on two other issues, too, perhaps because they highlight the shaky foundations of his claim to Crimea and other Ukrainian territories.

One is the Ukraine's repeated statement in recent days that it recognizes the Kuril Islands (or the Northern Territories) as Japanese territory.


The same treaty required Japan to give up control of Formosa/Taiwan and the Pescadores/Penghu Islands but is silent on to whom they were to belong - "while the legal status of the island of Taiwan is temporarily undetermined, it would be resolved at a later time in accordance with the principles of peaceful settlement of disputes and self-determination" (sic).


Putin and the Russian Federation have descended to the level of a (sad, bad) joke from which they may never recover.

Do you know real "sad joke"? It will be day when Russia will declare Taiwan part of China. Because after that all "satellites" of Russia and China will do it too, and China will use that recognition in political and maybe military purposes. So for you is better to sit very quiet when other talking about recognitions.

[Moses]

Well, if things couldn't get worse for Putin, his Prize Crimea Bridge just got bombed.

What kind of emotional tantrum will he have now, e.g., send more untrained troops to their sacrificial slaughter, order the bombing of a nuclear facility somewhere to cause mass human casualties and fuck up the environment, launch a gas attack on the Ukrainian civilian population? Who knows.

I read an interesting piece this morning which theorized that the bombing on the Bridge was only intended to rid the bridge of civilian motorists for a while - to pave the way for a second bombing intended to completely destroy the bridge.

Can't wait to see Putin's poker-face when that happens.

"Just" was 36 hours ago. It wasn't "bombing" it was car explosion - Ukrainians hired driver for to transfer fertilizers to Crimea and secretly installed detonator in car. Driver and 2 passengers in small car near explosion died.

Russia has restored car traffic in 12 hours, train traffic in 14 hours.

Such things are unavoidable. Like World Trading Center towers in New-York. Do you remember what became with organizers after 11/09? The same is awaiting Ukraine. By the way: Kiev has only 5 bridges over Dnepr, while it is divided by Dnepr 50/50 by population and next bridge is very far - in Konotop.

And yesterday Russia send signal to Ukraine: yesterday Gen Surovikin has been appointed as a chief of Russian operation on Ukraine. He is men who calmed unrest in Tajikistan, and was chief or Russian military operation in Syria. He never cares about collateral damage. Looks like "soft hands" may became "still fist".

[Dragonman]

Do you know real "sad joke"? It will be day when Russia will declare Taiwan part of China. Because after that all "satellites" of Russia and China will do it too, and China will use that recognition in political and maybe military purposes. So for you is better to sit very quiet when other talking about recognitions.

You really do need to catch up with the 21 century. China has had 73 years to exploit Soviet/Russian recognition for political and military purposes but we're still here.

The Soviet Union recognized the ROC/Taiwan as part of the PRC in 1949. Earlier this year (2022), it was reported that "Russia recognises Taiwan as part of China, opposes island's independence" (https://www.wionews.com/world/russia-recognises-taiwan-as-part-of-china-opposes-islands-independence-450437, Updated: Feb 04, 2022, 04:59 PM(IST). Everyone here yawned at the report.

Most countries already officially recognize the ROC/Taiwan as part of the PRC, but that doesn't stop them either having reciprocal representative office agreements with Taiwan or recognizing our passports (in fact, I can visit more countries visa-free or visa-on-arrival that you can with your Russian passport). Moreover, no-one has imposed any sanctions on us or any of our oligarchs. Moreover, we are getting more friendly government and trade visitors than we have for many years, thanks to the activities of General Secretary Xi and his wolf warriors, and Putin's so-called "special military operation."

Russia has been happy to accept Taiwanese investment in, and joint ownership of, industrial operations in Russia, e.g., in Sakhalin as discussed earlier in this thread.

Running out of Taiwanese-made computer chips yet? "Taiwan bans exports of all modern chips to Russia, Belarus" (https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4557937).

Are MCST Elbrus microchips a satisfactory substitute (Russian-Made Elbrus CPUs Fail Trials, 'A Completely Unacceptable Platform,' By Anton Shilov, December 24, 2021, https://www.tomshardware.com/news/russias-biggest-bank-tests-elbrus-cpu-finds-it-unacceptable)?.

It's astonishing, too, how many citizens of Russia's and China's satellites find it safer and more rewarding to seek work here than at home or in other satellites. I believe that none of the 611 Russian citizens legally here (and the 1,000 or so illegally here) has left because Taiwan has imposed sanctions on Taiwan, either.

That's democracy for you.

[Dragonman]

"

And yesterday Russia send signal to Ukraine: yesterday Gen Surovikin has been appointed as a chief of Russian operation on Ukraine. He is men who calmed unrest in Tajikistan, and was chief or Russian military operation in Syria. He never cares about collateral damage. Looks like "soft hands" may became "still fist".

Don't forget to mention how he calmed unrest in Russia as well: "Vladimir Putin makes ‘brutal and corrupt’ general new military chief. General Sergei Surovikin, infamous for shooting Moscow protesters in 1991, is latest candidate to take charge of failing Ukraine invasion" (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/10/08/vladimir-putin-makes-brutal-corrupt-general-new-military-chief/) (https://www.arabobserver.com/russia-names-gen-sergei-surovikin-as-new-commander-for-the-war-in-ukraine/).

Of course, the man who founded the Neo-Nazi Wagner Group is happy at his appointment: "Who’s happy about the notorious Gen. Sergei Surovikin appointed to command Russian troops in Ukraine? Yevgeny Prigozhin. “Surovikin is the most able commander in the Russian army,… a legendary figure, he was born to serve his motherland faithfully” (https://twitter.com/Andrew__Roth/status/1578808693873074176). "Prigozhin not fussed that Surovikin troops killed 3 pro-democracy protestors during failed 1991 coup in Moscow. “Having received an order [in 1991], Surovikin was that officer who without hesitation got in his tank and went forward to save his country.”

Russia's own Tiananmen Square event.

[Moses]

Don't forget to mention how he calmed unrest in Russia as well: "Vladimir Putin makes ‘brutal and corrupt’ general new military chief. General Sergei Surovikin, infamous for shooting Moscow protesters in 1991, is latest candidate to take charge of failing Ukraine invasion" (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/10/08/vladimir-putin-makes-brutal-corrupt-general-new-military-chief/) (https://www.arabobserver.com/russia-names-gen-sergei-surovikin-as-new-commander-for-the-war-in-ukraine/).

Of course, the man who founded the Neo-Nazi Wagner Group is happy at his appointment: "Who’s happy about the notorious Gen. Sergei Surovikin appointed to command Russian troops in Ukraine? Yevgeny Prigozhin. “Surovikin is the most able commander in the Russian army,… a legendary figure, he was born to serve his motherland faithfully” (https://twitter.com/Andrew__Roth/status/1578808693873074176). "Prigozhin not fussed that Surovikin troops killed 3 pro-democracy protestors during failed 1991 coup in Moscow. “Having received an order [in 1991], Surovikin was that officer who without hesitation got in his tank and went forward to save his country.”

Russia's own Tiananmen Square event.

You don't know Russian history as well as that "journalist". You should read sources, not storytellers - they are stupid propagandists. Or at least check WIKI.

Story with Surovikin was totally opposite. When here was attempt of coup in 1991, he was on "bad side" (party of USSR restoration). Coup failed and people won. So you can't tell about Tiananmen - people won here. Surovikin was 9 months in prison after it, but his actions wasn't recognized as criminal and he also sworn to serve Russia.

Since that time he is used as ruthless general in all military operations where no needs to worry about collateral damage.

[Dragonman]

You don't know Russian history as well as that "journalist". You should read sources, not storytellers - they are stupid propagandists. Or at least check WIKI.

Story with Surovikin was totally opposite. When here was attempt of coup in 1991, he was on "bad side". Coup failed and people won. So you can't tell about Tiananmen - people won here. Surovikin was 9 months in prison after it, but his actions wasn't recognized as criminal and he also sworn to serve Russia.

Since that time he is used as ruthless general in all military operations where no needs to worry about collateral damage.

What was factually incorrect in what I posted? I did not state on which side Surovikin was, merely that he was/infamous for the shooting of three protesters - and I never said on which side the protesters were, either.

You don't cite sources (as usual) for your comments, and I don't read Russian, so I checked Wikipedia as you suggested. This is what the Wikipedia entry on Surovikin and 1991 states: "By August 1991, he was a captain and commander of the 1st Rifle Battalion in the 2nd Guards Tamanskaya Motor Rifle Division. During the August Coup in Moscow, Surovikin was ordered to send his battalion into the tunnel on Garden Ring, where three anti-coup demonstrators were killed. After the defeat of the coup, Surovikin was arrested and held under investigation for seven months (note: not 9 as you claimed). However, the charges were dropped on 10 December because Boris Yeltsin[6] concluded that Surovikin was only following orders (note: I never claimed he wasn't). He was promoted to the rank of major afterwards."

It explicitly states Surovikin was following orders when the three were killed - just as those in Tiananmen Square were following orders.

Whether the people won or lost was not the point of my comment, merely that Surovikin's forces killed protesters who were in favor of democracy.

[Moses]

What was factually incorrect in what I posted? I did not state on which side Surovikin was, merely that he was/infamous for the shooting of three protesters - and I never said on which side the protesters were, either.

You don't cite sources (as usual) for your comments, and I don't read Russian, so I checked Wikipedia as you suggested. This is what the Wikipedia entry on Surovikin and 1991 states: "By August 1991, he was a captain and commander of the 1st Rifle Battalion in the 2nd Guards Tamanskaya Motor Rifle Division. During the August Coup in Moscow, Surovikin was ordered to send his battalion into the tunnel on Garden Ring, where three anti-coup demonstrators were killed. After the defeat of the coup, Surovikin was arrested and held under investigation for seven months. However, the charges were dropped on 10 December because Boris Yeltsin[6] concluded that Surovikin was only following orders. He was promoted to the rank of major afterwards."

It explicitly states Surovikin was following orders when the three were killed - just as those in Tiananmen Square were following orders.

Yes, as usual you are wrong.

Use sources, not a propaganda. Surovikin never shoot or gave order to shoot in 1991. Exactly that why he wasn't recognized as criminal. That coup was failed without any shooting by army, but here was few shooting provocations (maybe secret service?).

3 person died in attempts to stop tank by covering (I don't know correct English word) "watching holes"/"watching windows" (?) of tank driver. They expected what after covering "holes" of tank it will stop. They were on straight street with no turns, so driver just kept moving and these 3 were damaged by tank itself because they were on the way of tank and driver not saw them because of covered "holes".

And speaking about Tiananmen. Here is how looks memorial of these 3 persons in Moscow. By decree of Putin their families monthly receive money support. People won here.

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[Dragonman]

Yes, as usual you are wrong.

Use sources, not a propaganda. Surovikin never shoot or gave order to shoot in 1991. Exactly that why he wasn't recognized as criminal. That coup was failed without any shooting by army, but here was few shooting provocations (maybe secret service?).

3 person died in attempts to stop tank by covering (I don't know correct English word) "watching holes"/"watching windows" (?) of tank driver. They expected what after covering "holes" of tank it will stop. They were on straight street with no turns, so driver just kept moving and these 3 were damaged by tank itself because they were on the way of tank and driver not saw them because of covered "holes".

And speaking about Tiananmen. Here is how looks memorial of these 3 persons in Moscow. People won here.

12810

Never satisfied, are you? You tell me to look at Wikipedia. I look at Wikipedia, but you don't accept what it says, but do the written equivalent of putting words in my mouth.

It is my understanding that, as the tanks were under his command, the military doctrine of "Command responsibility" applies. This refers to the “accountability or responsibility or answerability of the commander of a Military Force or Unit for the acts of his men, inclusive of the authority to order, to direct, to prevent or control the acts of his men.” Therefore, he was responsible for what happened, whether or not he gave a direct command to fire.

See "Russian Federation. Practice Relating to Rule 153. Command Responsibility for Failure to Prevent, Punish or Report War Crimes (https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v2_cou_ru_rule153). I am aware the 1991 was not an armed conflict per se, but the doctrine still applied.

You tell me to use sources, not propaganda, but you NEVER cite sources, just as you have not in your posting. Take note of your own practice before stating I used propaganda, and cite the titles of articles or URLs.

Taiwan has two Tiananmen Memorials, see "Taiwan hosts only Tiananmen Square Massacre memorial in Chinese-speaking world" (2021/06/04 22:00; https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4216559), and a replica of the "Pillar of Shame" that used to be in Hong Kong until the PRC had it removed ("Taiwan Unveils Pillar of Shame Replica, Hosting Only Tiananmen Vigil in the Chinese-speaking World," June 04, 2022 12:07 PM, https://www.voanews.com/a/taiwan-unveils-pillar-of-shame-replica-hosting-only-tiananmen-vigil-in-the-chinese-speaking-world/6603353.html).

[Dodger]

Interesting perspective on the war from a highly respected Estonia Spy Chief:

https://www.aol.com/news/ukraine-win-estonia-departing-spy-183016999.html

[Dodger]

Putin has labeled the bombing of the Crimea Bridge as a "Terrorist Attack".

Ukraine should respond by telling him......"No, it was just a Special Operation".

https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-10-09-22/h_038d95a633e9dbdefe484af9cff8c076

[Moses]

Putin has labeled the bombing of the Crimea Bridge as a "Terrorist Attack".

Ukraine should respond by telling him......"No, it was just a Special Operation".

https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-10-09-22/h_038d95a633e9dbdefe484af9cff8c076

Well... not exactly... now they complain "Why Russians hit infrastructure? It is terrorist attack!"

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[Dodger]

Well, if things couldn't get worse for Putin, his Prize Crimea Bridge just got bombed.

What kind of emotional tantrum will he have now, e.g., send more untrained troops to their sacrificial slaughter, order the bombing of a nuclear facility somewhere to cause mass human casualties and fuck up the environment, launch a gas attack on the Ukrainian civilian population? Who knows.

As I reply to myself:

Yep, there he goes, ordering massive missile strikes against civilian targets for his revenge.

Reports of whole towns, homes, farms, hospitals, utility services, and even a children's playground all turned to dust.

The most pronounced definition of a "Coward".

[cdnmatt]

Apparently, some of the missile strikes Russia just recently engaged in are within the "annexed" regions that are now effectively Russia.

I thought they were supposed to have full security from the Russian government? Why is the Russian military striking their cities with missiles?

[Dodger]

Apparently, some of the missile strikes Russia just recently engaged in are within the "annexed" regions that are now effectively Russia.

I thought they were supposed to have full security from the Russian government? Why is the Russian military striking their cities with missiles?

They must be zooming in on all the Nazis.

[cdnmatt]

They must be zooming in on all the Nazis.

Yeah, I heard all the Nazis are hanging out in the kindergartens these days.

[Moses]

As I reply to myself:

Yep, there he goes, ordering massive missile strikes against civilian targets for his revenge.

Reports of whole towns, homes, farms, hospitals, utility services, and even a children's playground all turned to dust.

The most pronounced definition of a "Coward".

Bullshit. In "civilian targets" 11 killed in 50 strikes?

All strikes besides 1, were targeted on powerplants and bridges: railroads and communications. The only one was targeted to park in the center of Kiev near president's office. Because under that park is located president's bunker. It was warning "knock" - "we know where you are". And nobody was injured in that strike.

Once again: 11 died in 50 strikes. It is 15 times less then on the Crimean bridge: 0,2 per Russian strike and 3 in Ukrainian strike on the bridge.

— Krivorozhskaya TPP. It is the third largest in Ukraine. Electricity was cut off in the city, problems with water supply. The railway stopped and communication stopped working.

- Three thermal power plants, as well as one substation in Kyiv. The local thermal power plant is on fire, the work of the metro has been stopped. The railway stopped and communication stopped working.

— Pridneprovskaya CHPP, located near the city of Dnipro. The railway stopped and communication stopped working.

— CHPP-1 in Lviv. The work of city thermal power plants has been stopped, there is no water and electricity in the city. The railway stopped and communication stopped working.

— Burshtynska TPP in Ivano-Frankivsk. The railway stopped and communication stopped working.

— Substations in Khmelnitsky, Rivne, and Ternopil. These three cities now have no electricity. The railway stopped and communication stopped working.

- Substation Konotop near the city of Sumy. There are problems with electricity throughout the region. The railway stopped and communication stopped working.

- Zmievskaya TPP (near Kharkov), which provides electricity to Kharkov, Poltava and Sumy regions. In Kharkiv itself there is no electricity, water or communications. The subway is also not working. The railway stopped and communication stopped working.

[Moses]

After first diversion near Moscow in August Ukraine lost 4 power plants and one dam. Lesson hadn't learned.

After second diversion on Crimean bridge Ukraine lost 11 power plants.

To make new diversions or not - it is Ukrainian choice.

[Dodger]

Bullshit. In "civilian targets" 11 killed in 50 strikes?

If any of those 11 were your family members the number of strikes would be totally irrelevant.

[Moses]

If any of those 11 were your family members the number of strikes would be totally irrelevant.

Well do you know military conflicts without killed civilians? At least nobody who is honest can tell what these strikes weren't precision: 0.2 killed per strike. I think these persons were security or technicians on powerplants.

[Dragonman]

The Indian news channel WION now reports that the death toll is 19 - "Death toll rises to 19 in Russian missile strikes on Ukrainian cities" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4zyBZYXH_Q), with more than 100 wounded.

Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions, Article 52, provides for the general protection of civilian objects, hindering attacks to military objectives in a war between two or more belligerents. Article 52 states, "In so far as objects are concerned, military objectives are limited to those objects which by their nature, location, purpose or use make an effective contribution to military action and whose total or partial destruction, capture or neutralization, in the circumstances ruling at the time, offers a definite military advantage."

According to that definition, the Kherson Bridge would have been a legitimate target, and an attack on it not a terrorist attack as it has been used to resupply the Russian Federation's armed forces in illegally-annexed Crimea.

Claiming that it was not because the Russian invasion is only "a special military operation" is irrelevant now that Russian media commentators are said to be referring to the invasion as a "war."

Interestingly, so far, Russia has provided no hard evidence that the attack was carried out by Ukrainian forces, merely allegations.

The UN is now saying the Russian response (i.e., showering Ukrainian sites with 83 missiles) may have violated international humanitarian law - "Deadly Russian strikes may have violated international law principles - UN. 1h ago" (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/deadly-russian-strikes-may-have-violated-international-law-principles-un/ar-AA12PgBV?cvid=9d71009494c2432b8bcfe38e0079fdc3). That is, they are terrorist attacks

[Moses]

The Indian news channel WION now reports that the death toll is 19 - "Death toll rises to 19 in Russian missile strikes on Ukrainian cities" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4zyBZYXH_Q), with more than 100 wounded.

Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions, Article 52, provides for the general protection of civilian objects, hindering attacks to military objectives in a war between two or more belligerents. Article 52 states, "In so far as objects are concerned, military objectives are limited to those objects which by their nature, location, purpose or use make an effective contribution to military action and whose total or partial destruction, capture or neutralization, in the circumstances ruling at the time, offers a definite military advantage."

According to that definition, the Kherson Bridge would have been a legitimate target, and an attack on it not a terrorist attack as it has been used to resupply the Russian Federation's armed forces in illegally-annexed Crimea.

Claiming that it was not because the Russian invasion is only "a special military operation" is irrelevant now that Russian media commentators are said to be referring to the invasion as a "war."

Interestingly, so far, Russia has provided no hard evidence that the attack was carried out by Ukrainian forces, merely allegations.

Well. I can tell the same about car explosion on Crimean bride few days ago. These 3 weren't military. And for sure nobody can call Dugina who died in car explosion near Moscow in August "military objective". She wasn't military officer or even civilian manager in state administration.

By the way: since March 2018 there is no "hard evidence" and no court decision about "Saulsberry case" in UK. But UK still blame Russians, because of "highly likely".

[Moses]

Hague Rules of Air Warfare
According to Article 24(2) of the 1923 Hague Rules of Air Warfare, “factories constituting important and well-known centres engaged in the manufacture of arms, ammunition or distinctively military supplies” are military objectives.
New Delhi Draft Rules
Paragraph I of the proposed annex to Article 7(2) of the 1956 New Delhi Draft Rules provided:
The objectives belonging to the following categories are those considered to be of generally recognized military importance:
…
(8) Industries of fundamental importance for the conduct of the war:
(a) industries for the manufacture of armaments such as weapons, munitions, rockets, armoured vehicles, military aircraft, fighting ships, including the manufacture of accessories and all other war material;
(b) industries for the manufacture of supplies and material of a military character, such as transport and communications material, equipment for the armed forces;
(c) factories or plants constituting other production and manufacturing centres of fundamental importance for the conduct of war, such as the metallurgical, engineering and chemical industries, whose nature and purpose is essentially military;
(d) storage and transport installations whose basic function it is to serve the industries referred to in (a)–(c);
(e) installations providing energy mainly for national defence, e.g. coal, other fuels, or atomic energy, and plants producing gas or electricity mainly for military consumption.
(9) Installations constituting experimental, research centres for experiments on and the development of weapons and war material.

Some examples:

Australia
Australia’s LOAC Manual (2006) provides as an example of military objectives:
… power stations [and] industry which support military operations … industrial installations producing materiel for combat forces, fuel dumps and distribution centres supplying military users, industrial installations that repair and replenish lines of communication and other economic targets the destruction, capture or neutralisation of which offers a definite military advantage.
The manual adds: “Economic targets that indirectly but effectively support operations are also military objectives if an attack will gain a definite military advantage.”

Belgium
Belgium’s Law of War Manual (1983) states:
The purpose of combat between belligerents is to weaken and eliminate the power of resistance of the enemy.
This resistance is provided in the first place by the armed forces of a Party to the conflict. As a result, acts of violence are in the first place directed against the military potential of the adversary (the army, its positions, provision of its supplies, its stores, workshops, arsenals, depots, defence works, vehicles, aircraft, war buildings, etc.).
But this resistance also depends on the economic power of the adversary (its war industry, its production capacity, its sources of supply, etc.); in short, its economic potential. The breaking up of this economic potential has of course a direct influence on the armed forces’ capacity to resist, so that this economic potential also becomes a war objective

Canada
Canada’s LOAC Manual (1999) considers that “military bases, warehouses, petroleum storage areas” are “generally accepted as being military objectives”.
The manual adds that “industrial installations producing material for armed forces; … conventional power plants; and … fuel dumps” “depending on the circumstances, may constitute military objectives”

Germany
Germany’s Military Manual (1992) provides that military objectives include, in particular, “economic objectives which make an effective contribution to military action (transport facilities, industrial plants, etc.)”

New Zealand
New Zealand’s Military Manual (1992) states that “energy installations [and] war supporting industries are examples of objects universally regarded as military objectives”.
The manual further states:
Industrial installations producing materiel for combat forces, fuel dumps and distribution centres supplying military users, and industrial installations that repair and replenish lines of communication (such as conventional power plants and vehicle plants), and other economic targets may be attacked if they meet the criteria for military objectives.
In general, the manual considers that:
Economic targets that indirectly but effectively support enemy operations may also be attacked to gain a definite military advantage. For example, an 1870 international arbitral tribunal recognized that the destruction of cotton was justified during the American Civil War since the sale of cotton provided funds for almost all Confederate arms and ammunition. Authorization to attack such targets will be reserved to higher authority.

Spain
Spain’s LOAC Manual (2007) states that “economic and industrial objectives that make a real and effective contribution to military action” are military objectives.

United States of America
The US Naval Handbook (2007) states:
Proper objects of attack also include enemy lines of communication, rail yards, bridges, rolling stock, barges, lighters, industrial installations producing war-fighting products, and power generation plants. Economic objects of the enemy that indirectly but effectively support and sustain the enemy’s war-fighting capability may also be attacked.

United States of America
In 1992, in its final report to Congress on the conduct of the Gulf War, the US Department of Defense stated that Iraq’s electricity production facilities, its oil refining and distribution facilities and its military production sites had been included among the 12 target sets for the coalition’s attacks.

[Dragonman]

FEDERAL LAW NO. 35-FZ OF 6 MARCH 2006 ON COUNTERACTION AGAINST TERRORISM
Adopted by the State Duma on 26 February 2006
Endorsed by the Federation Council on 1 March 2006

Article 3. Basic Concepts
The following basic concepts are used in this Federal Law:
1) terrorism shall mean the ideology of violence and the practice of influencing the adoption of a decision by public authorities, local self-government bodies or international organizations connected with frightening the population and (or) other forms of unlawful violent actions;
2) terrorist activity shall mean the activity including the following:
a) arranging, planning, preparing, financing and implementing an act of terrorism;
b) instigation of an act of terrorism;
c) establishment of an unlawful armed unit, criminal association (criminal organization) or an organized group for implementation of an act of terrorism, as well as participation in such structure;
d) recruiting, arming, training and using terrorists;
e) informational or other assistance to planning, preparing or implementing an act of terrorism;
f) popularization of terrorist ideas, dissemination of materials or information urging terrorist activities, substantiating or justifying the necessity of the exercise of such activity;
3) terrorist act shall mean making an explosion, arson or other actions connected with frightening the population and posing the danger of loss of life, of causing considerable damage to property or the onset of an ecological catastrophe , as well as other especially grave consequences, for the purpose of unlawful influence upon adoption of a decision by public authorities, local self-government bodies or international organizations, as well as the threat of committing the said actions for the same purpose;
4) counteraction against terrorism shall mean the activity of public authorities and local self-government bodies aimed at the following:
a) prevention of terrorism, including the detection and subsequent removal of the reasons and conditions conducive to committing acts of terrorism (prevention of terrorism);
b) detection, prevention, suppression, disclosure and investigation of an act of terrorism (struggle against terrorism);
c) reduction to minimum and (or) liquidation of terrorist manifestations;
5) antiterrorist operation shall mean a complex set of special, operational-combat and army measures accompanied by the use of military equipment, armaments and special facilities which are aimed at suppressing an act of terrorism, neutralizing terrorists, ensuring security of natural persons, organizations and institutions, as well as at reducing to minimum the consequences of an act of terrorism.

https://rm.coe.int/ct-legislation-russian-federation/16806415f5

I believe this covers everything that the Russian Federation has done since last February, and probably since 2014 when it illegally annexed Ukraine, including the formation of the Wagner Group and their employment by the Russian Federation in Syria, etc., as well as in Ukraine, and the employment of the Chechen Kadyrovite paramilitary operation.

[Moses]

FEDERAL LAW NO. 35-FZ OF 6 MARCH 2006 ON COUNTERACTION AGAINST TERRORISM
Adopted by the State Duma on 26 February 2006
Endorsed by the Federation Council on 1 March 2006

Article 3. Basic Concepts
The following basic concepts are used in this Federal Law:
1) terrorism shall mean the ideology of violence and the practice of influencing the adoption of a decision by public authorities, local self-government bodies or international organizations connected with frightening the population and (or) other forms of unlawful violent actions;
2) terrorist activity shall mean the activity including the following:
a) arranging, planning, preparing, financing and implementing an act of terrorism;
b) instigation of an act of terrorism;
c) establishment of an unlawful armed unit, criminal association (criminal organization) or an organized group for implementation of an act of terrorism, as well as participation in such structure;
d) recruiting, arming, training and using terrorists;
e) informational or other assistance to planning, preparing or implementing an act of terrorism;
f) popularization of terrorist ideas, dissemination of materials or information urging terrorist activities, substantiating or justifying the necessity of the exercise of such activity;
3) terrorist act shall mean making an explosion, arson or other actions connected with frightening the population and posing the danger of loss of life, of causing considerable damage to property or the onset of an ecological catastrophe , as well as other especially grave consequences, for the purpose of unlawful influence upon adoption of a decision by public authorities, local self-government bodies or international organizations, as well as the threat of committing the said actions for the same purpose;
4) counteraction against terrorism shall mean the activity of public authorities and local self-government bodies aimed at the following:
a) prevention of terrorism, including the detection and subsequent removal of the reasons and conditions conducive to committing acts of terrorism (prevention of terrorism);
b) detection, prevention, suppression, disclosure and investigation of an act of terrorism (struggle against terrorism);
c) reduction to minimum and (or) liquidation of terrorist manifestations;
5) antiterrorist operation shall mean a complex set of special, operational-combat and army measures accompanied by the use of military equipment, armaments and special facilities which are aimed at suppressing an act of terrorism, neutralizing terrorists, ensuring security of natural persons, organizations and institutions, as well as at reducing to minimum the consequences of an act of terrorism.

https://rm.coe.int/ct-legislation-russian-federation/16806415f5

I believe this covers everything that the Russian Federation has done since last February, and probably since 2014 when it illegally annexed Ukraine, including the formation of the Wagner Group and their employment by the Russian Federation in Syria, etc., as well as in Ukraine, and the employment of the Chechen Kadyrovite paramilitary operation.

The main problem for you and your propaganda: actions of Russia aren't recognized as "act of terrorism", including US.

[Dragonman]

Thank you for your long response - which missed the point of my posting!. If the Ukrainian were responsible for the Kherson Bridge attack, then it was not a terrorist attack but a permissible and legal attack under the terms of the Geneva Convention,

[Dragonman]

The main problem for you and your propaganda: actions of Russia aren't recognized as "act of terrorism", including US.

The main problem for you and your propaganda: actions of Ukraine are not so recognized, either.

[Moses]

Thank you for your long response - which missed the point of my posting!. If the Ukrainian were responsible for the Kherson Bridge attack, then it was not a terrorist attack but a permissible and legal attack under the terms of the Geneva Convention,

United States of America
The US Naval Handbook (2007) states:
Proper objects of attack also include enemy lines of communication, rail yards, bridges, rolling stock, barges, lighters, industrial installations producing war-fighting products, and power generation plants. Economic objects of the enemy that indirectly but effectively support and sustain the enemy’s war-fighting capability may also be attacked.

United States of America
In 1992, in its final report to Congress on the conduct of the Gulf War, the US Department of Defense stated that Iraq’s electricity production facilities, its oil refining and distribution facilities and its military production sites had been included among the 12 target sets for the coalition’s attacks.

[Dragonman]

All your quotes are merely reinforcing mine that the Kherson Bridge was (and is) a perfectly legal Ukrainian wartime target.

But thank you for beginning to cite your sources.

[Moses]

All your quotes are merely reinforcing mine that the Kherson Bridge was (and is) a perfectly legal Ukrainian wartime target.

But thank you for beginning to cite your sources.

Why you are talking about Kherson bridge? Kherson bridge and Crimean bridge - are 2 different bridges.

[Dragonman]

Why you are talking about Kherson bridge? Kherson bridge and Crimean bridge - are 2 different bridges.

Thank you for drawing attention to my error - I meant to type Kerch Bridge, which is what the Crimean Bridge is also sometimes called in English. Nevertheless, the rest of my posting holds.

[Dodger]

Well do you know military conflicts without killed civilians? At least nobody who is honest can tell what these strikes weren't precision: 0.2 killed per strike. I think these persons were security or technicians on powerplants.

I am totally ANTI-WAR.

I view War as a systemic breakdown in humanity and one of the greatest failures of mankind - where the innocent always suffer the consequences of those with great power who are blind to their own blindness. And this applies to any/all countries on Earth.

[Moses]

The main problem for you and your propaganda: actions of Ukraine are not so recognized, either.


All your quotes are merely reinforcing mine that the Kherson Bridge was (and is) a perfectly legal Ukrainian wartime target.

But thank you for beginning to cite your sources.

Well, I never named Ukrainian actions as a "terrorist". I clearly wrote "diversion"

I just wrote: they got lessons. After diversion in August they lost few power plants. After diversion on the bridge they lost again, even more. Do they want to lost more industry? I have no idea, but I know how will react Russia each time.

[Moses]

I am totally ANTI-WAR.

I view War as a systemic breakdown in humanity and one of the greatest failures of mankind - where the innocent always suffer the consequences of those with great power who are blind to their own blindness. And this applies to any/all countries on Earth.

Could you please point me on your anti-war posts about Ukrainian bombing of Donetsk and Lugansk during 2014-2021 years?

[Dragonman]

Well, I never named Ukrainian actions as a "terrorist". I clearly wrote "diversion"

I just wrote: they got lessons. After diversion in August they lost few power plants. After diversion on the bridge they lost again, even more. Do they want to lost more industry? I have no idea, but I know how will react Russia each time.

Perhaps you did not name the Ukrainian actions as "terrorist," but Putin has done so - repeatedly, e.g., "Putin accuses Ukraine of Crimea bridge blast ‘terrorism.’ Russian president to convene security council amid calls for reprisals over attack that damaged key Crimea supply route" (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/10/10/putin-accuses-ukraine-of-crimea-bridge-blast-terrorism).

The article states: "“There is no doubt. This is an act of terrorism aimed at destroying critically important civilian infrastructure,” Putin said on Sunday in a video posted on the Kremlin’s Telegram channel. “This was devised, carried out and ordered by the Ukrainian special services.” Putin is due to convene a meeting of the country’s security council on Monday with the body’s Deputy Chairman Dmitry Medvedev saying that Russia should kill the “terrorists” responsible for the attack."

Putin still has not provided any proof of this allegation that the Ukrainian special services ordered and carried out any such attack.

He ignores, too, the fact that his actions in launching his "special military operation" are responsible for all the destruction on both sides but, like all bullies, complains when his victim fights back.

[Moses]

He ignores, too, the fact that his actions in launching his "special military operation" are responsible for all the destruction on both sides but, like all bullies, complains when his victim fights back.

That you ignores fact what Russian actions are response for almost 8 years of Ukrainian bombing of Donetsk and Luhansk, of 8 years of genocide Russians at the East of Ukraine. There was Minsk agreement which Ukraine didn't implement. Well, now they have what they have...

I told about "soft hands", you didn't believe. Now in 2 days 30% of Ukrainian energy system became ruins. I hope lesson is learned. If not - then they still have 70% more. Don't. Tease. Russian. Bear.

[cdnmatt]

For anyone interested, Jake Tapper got an exclusive with President Biden regarding the Ukraine war. It's here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpzMfAKN9aQ

[Dodger]

Could you please point me on your anti-war posts about Ukrainian bombing of Donetsk and Lugansk during 2014-2021 years?

I thought I just did.

[Dragonman]

That you ignores fact what Russian actions are response for almost 8 years of Ukrainian bombing of Donetsk and Luhansk, of 8 years of genocide Russians at the East of Ukraine. There was Minsk agreement which Ukraine didn't implement. Well, now they have what they have...

I told about "soft hands", you didn't believe. Now in 2 days 30% of Ukrainian energy system became ruins. I hope lesson is learned. If not - then they still have 70% more. Don't. Tease. Russian. Bear.

i don't ignore it because those eight years covered the period when ethnic Russian separatists attempted to unite the Ukrainian regions of Donetsk and Luhansk with the Russian Federation which was assisting the citizens of another country with special forces, and deniable military advisors. It was not just Ukraine that did not observe the 2014 Minsk agreement 's provisions of prisoner exchanges, deliveries of humanitarian aid and the withdrawal of heavy weapons. The agreement quickly broke down because there were violations by both sides.

"Six years of genocide of Russians" is a Russian lie, as determined by the International Criminal Court - "Adjudge and declare that the Russian Federation cannot lawfully take any action under the Genocide Convention in or against Ukraine aimed at preventing or punishing an alleged genocide, on the basis of its false claims of genocide in the Luhansk and Donetsk oblasts of Ukraine (https://newlinesinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/English-Report.pdf). You are repeating Putin's propaganda, something that you repeatedly claim that other do while doing it itlself in every post you make.

I see little difference between Ukraine's attempts to retake their territory and the Russian Federation's various attempts in the Chechen wars and its other 2009-2017 Caucasus wars with Ingushetia, etc.

I never said that I didn't believe your "soft hands" comment as I had read up the record of Colonel General Sergey Surovikin and his history in Syria. I am sure the war will end as he deserves.

[Dodger]

For anyone interested, Jake Tapper got an exclusive with President Biden regarding the Ukraine war. It's here:

Biden sounds like an idiot and needs to retire.

[Moses]

i don't ignore it because those eight years covered the period when ethnic Russian separatists attempted to unite the Ukrainian regions of Donetsk and Luhansk with the Russian Federation which was assisting the citizens of another country with special forces, and deniable military advisors. It was not just Ukraine that did not observe the 2014 Minsk agreement 's provisions of prisoner exchanges, deliveries of humanitarian aid and the withdrawal of heavy weapons. The agreement quickly broke down because there were violations by both sides.

"Six years of genocide of Russians" is a Russian lie, as determined by the International Criminal Court - "Adjudge and declare that the Russian Federation cannot lawfully take any action under the Genocide Convention in or against Ukraine aimed at preventing or punishing an alleged genocide, on the basis of its false claims of genocide in the Luhansk and Donetsk oblasts of Ukraine (https://newlinesinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/English-Report.pdf). You are repeating Putin's propaganda, something that you repeatedly claim that other do while doing it itlself in every post you make.

I see little difference between Ukraine's attempts to retake their territory and the Russian Federation's various attempts in the Chechen wars and its other 2009-2017 Caucasus wars with Ingushetia, etc.

I never said that I didn't believe your "soft hands" comment as I had read up the record of Colonel General Sergey Surovikin and his history in Syria. I am sure the war will end as he deserves.

I lost 2 relatives in this "false genocide" and "propaganda".
You are sitting in the middle of nowhere and explaining me what's going on in Ukraine?

[Dragonman]

I lost 2 relatives in this "false genocide" and "propaganda".
You are sitting in the middle of nowhere and explaining me what's going on in Ukraine?

And where are you?

[Dodger]

And where are you?

You must have hit a nerve.

[Moses]

You must have hit a nerve.

No. It just not worth to answer.

I can read Russian and Ukrainian, have relatives on both side of border, including Crimea, receive information from both sides daily. What he can contrast to it? Propaganda from filtered Western news? Biden-Alzheimer messages what Russian economy is totally destroyed because of sanctions and currency rate is 200:1?

Yesterday "The Economist" "As Europe falls into recession, Russia climbs out"


These days Russians do not have much to boast about, so they take what they can get. Social-media trolls are posting videos, intended for European audiences, showing gas stoves left on full blast. What might cost hundreds of euros in Berlin comes to a few roubles in Moscow. The taunting is childish, but it hints at a deeper truth: the economic war between Russia and the West is at a delicate moment. While Europe teeters on the brink of recession, Russia is emerging from one.

Note: prices for gas are different btw regions, but for example in Moscow price is $0.95 per month with no limits in amount of gas. Yes, less than $1 per month and no limits. Prices are "per person". So if in apts are living father+mother+son, then they will pay $2.85 in total per month. If in apts aren't centralized hot water supply and family uses boiler for water heat, then price per month will be $1.15 per person.

[Dragonman]

You state that you "have relatives on both side of border, including Crimea, receive information from both sides daily." So you rely on family gossip for your information?

You missed two important sentences in the report: (1) "Despite these difficulties, the recession has probably now come to an end," and (2) nor do you mention how increased budgetary spending will affect those living inside Russian territory - "the budget implies large increases in war-related spending in the coming years—particularly on internal “security”.

The article relies, in part, on data from Goldman-Sachs: "Goldman Sachs, a bank, produces a “current-activity indicator”, which suggests how economies are doing from month to month. The data indicate that Russian activity is quite a bit livelier than it is in big European countries." Just remember that Goldman-Sachs doesn't always get its data right. For example, following its involvement in securitization during the US subprime mortgage crisis, it suffered during the financial crisis of 2007–2008, and received a $10 billion investment from the United States Department of the Treasury as part of the Troubled Asset Relief Program.

The rest of your response merely repeats what you have posted many, many times before, suggesting you are running out of good things to say about the present position of the ordinary Russian in the Federation today.

[Dodger]

Putin seems to be gradually taking a more resigned position (I think) and has been recently quoted as saying things like; "he doen't want to destroy Ukraine...no more mass bombings are necessary...all his strategic targets have been hit...and he's open to negotiations.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/putin-says-no-massive-strikes-133121369.html

Always the optimist, I'm hoping that this thing can be coming to some sort of end soon.

I have to imagine that Putin (and the West) knows that playing the "Nuclear Card" just isn't an option...not for anyone. That said, the only other option, at least the way I see things, is for some kind of compromise to be reached.

Persoanlly, and I say this knowing that many would vehemently disagree, Ukraine should just agree to let Russia have Crimea and a slice of those other eastern regions and call it a day. Of course Putin would have to agree to any/all other conquests into neighboring Ukraine and acknowledge the fact that Ukraine is a free nation and can do as it choses going forward - and that would include joining NATO or any other alliance of its choosing.

Too many people are dying...too much destruction...too much risk for western Europe, as well as the citizens of Russia (and beyond). It's time to drive a stake in the ground and allow the World to refocus its energies and finances on saving the Planet from Global Warming before we're all dead.

Here's hoping!

[Moses]

====and that would include joining NATO or any other alliance of its choosing.====

No, neutral status of Ukraine is within conditions...

[Dragonman]

====and that would include joining NATO or any other alliance of its choosing.====

No, neutral status of Ukraine is within conditions...

Until 2014, Ukraine was already a neutral state. Ukraine formally abandoned its neutral status in 2014, after Russia annexed Crimea and invaded Eastern Ukraine.

[Moses]

Until 2014, Ukraine was already a neutral state. Ukraine formally abandoned its neutral status in 2014, after Russia annexed Crimea and invaded Eastern Ukraine.

You have no idea about Ukrainian history and sucking "history" from middle finger. Ukraine lost neutral status in eyes of Russia in 2021 when included NATO membership into constitution.

[cdnmatt]

Ukraine has already stated many times they won't compromise, and in my mind, rightfully so. They have full intention of taking back every square meter of their land including Crimea, and I can't blame them for that.

They've already been through hell and back, and when you hear the Ukraine Ministry of Foreign Affairs speak about how emotional it is to see the videos when soldiers liberate various towns and villages, and the soldigers are greeted with residents with tears of jobs in their eyes because they thought the Ukrainians would never be back and they'd be under Russian occupation froever is just heart breaking.

Russia is currently on its back heels, I wouldn't expect Ukraine to compromise. They're going to go ahead with their military operations, and retake every single square meter of their land.

Plus the EU Foreign Policy Chief was on CNN earlier today publicly saying if Russia were to use a nuclear weapon, the Russian military would be met with such a powerful response it would be annihilated:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A46YLrhuRtU

See what happems.

[Dodger]

Ukraine has already stated many times they won't compromise, and in my mind, rightfully so. They have full intention of taking back every square meter of their land including Crimea, and I can't blame them for that.

They've already been through hell and back, and when you hear the Ukraine Ministry of Foreign Affairs speak about how emotional it is to see the videos when soldiers liberate various towns and villages, and the soldigers are greeted with residents with tears of jobs in their eyes because they thought the Ukrainians would never be back and they'd be under Russian occupation froever is just heart breaking.

Russia is currently on its back heels, I wouldn't expect Ukraine to compromise. They're going to go ahead with their military operations, and retake every single square meter of their land.

Plus the EU Foreign Policy Chief was on CNN earlier today publicly saying if Russia were to use a nuclear weapon, the Russian military would be met with such a powerful response it would be annihilated:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A46YLrhuRtU

See what happens.

I agree with everything you said, but without some sort of compromise this thing could go on till hell freezes over.

I wouldn't want to see any compromise unless Ukraine had the freedom to join NATO. Putin has to pay the price and having NATO straddling his entire western border would be a good starting place. The whole world would be safer as a result.

To you point, right now Ukraine has the upper hand, and with that comes leverage (control) at the negotiating table. If Putin can't meet Ukraine's conditions than of course all bets would have to be off.

[Moses]

Ukraine has already stated many times they won't compromise, and in my mind, rightfully so. They have full intention of taking back every square meter of their land including Crimea, and I can't blame them for that.

They've already been through hell and back, and when you hear the Ukraine Ministry of Foreign Affairs speak about how emotional it is to see the videos when soldiers liberate various towns and villages, and the soldigers are greeted with residents with tears of jobs in their eyes because they thought the Ukrainians would never be back and they'd be under Russian occupation froever is just heart breaking.

Russia is currently on its back heels, I wouldn't expect Ukraine to compromise. They're going to go ahead with their military operations, and retake every single square meter of their land.

Plus the EU Foreign Policy Chief was on CNN earlier today publicly saying if Russia were to use a nuclear weapon, the Russian military would be met with such a powerful response it would be annihilated:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A46YLrhuRtU

See what happems.

145:22 Matt, 145:22...

End is unavoidable.

Kulyoba (minister) says what he has to say.

[cdnmatt]

I agree with everything you said, but without some sort of compromise this thing could go on till hell freezes over.

I wouldn't want to see any compromise unless Ukraine had the freedom to join NATO. Putin has to pay the price and having NATO straddling his entire western border would be a good starting place. The whole world would be safer as a result.

To you point, right now Ukraine has the upper hand, and with that comes leverage (control) at the negotiating table. If Putin can't meet Ukraine's conditions than of course all bets would have to be off.



Listen to what Ukrainian officials say, and I can promise you, there will be no compromise. They're not stopping until they reclaim every square meter of their land, regardless of how hard or long it takes.

This is totally unrealistic, but just play along with me here. Say China invaded the US, and there was a long, drawn out and bloody war. Would you as an American be willing to concede say California and half of Texas to Chinese occupation in order to end the war?

Of course not, right? You're not going to be willing to give up a single square meter of American soil to China, nor would you be willing to allow your fellow Americans to live under Chinese occupation, correct? Exact same case here. The Ukrainian military has already made it very clear, they will not allow their fellow citizens to live under Russian occupation, especially considering the amount of war crimes that have already been uncovered. They don't care, they're not going to stop until ever square meter of their land is liberated.

Russia is already on its back legs, and it's just a matter of time now. Ukraine said this war will be over spring of 2023, and considering how things are going, I'm guessing they're right. There's videos out there of Russian conscripts bitching because the only training they got was firing off three cartridges of bullets. That was is, then onto the train and off to the front lines you go. How effective of a fighting force do you think they are?

Just think what will happen if the US pulls the trigger and decides to supply Ukraine with those M1 Abrams they've been asking for, or if Germany pulls they trigger and sends Leopard 2s to Ukraine? Ukraine has already made it very clear, they have no intention of compromising with Putin, so all we in the West can do is support them. We actually have a few Ukrainian families here in the small town I'm in, and I promise, they don't go without. I'm sure they probably have enough shit now to furnish 6 homes.

[cdnmatt]

145:22 Matt, 145:22...

End is unavoidable.

Kulyoba (minister) says what he has to say.


Go read a history book, because that's not how this works.

There's literally videos out there of Russian conscripts complaining because they were picked up, got to shoot three cartridges of ammo for their training, then were sent to the front lines. That basically means 50 Russians = 1 Ukrainian soldier, if that.

I promise you, Ukraine with the West's support will win this war, which Russia waged by the way under false pretenses of Nazis or some such shit. If Putin decides to use a tactical nuclear weapon, both NATO and the EU have already promised that Russia will very shortly no longer have a military.

[Moses]

Go read a history book, because that's not how this works.

There's literally videos out there of Russian conscripts complaining because they were picked up, got to shoot three cartridges of ammo for their training, then were sent to the front lines. That basically means 50 Russians = 1 Ukrainian soldier, if that.

I promise you, Ukraine with the West's support will win this war, which Russia waged by the way under false pretenses of Nazis or some such shit. If Putin decides to use a tactical nuclear weapon, both NATO and the EU have already promised that Russia will very shortly no longer have a military.

Darling, 145:22.

West for sure may supply "till last Ukrainian", but end is unavoidable. Russia just in 2 days destroyed 30% of Ukrainian electro generation network. Zelenskiy now hiding somewhere in bunker of the far West of Ukraine.

When mobilized will arrive to region and will start to control region - that will make regular army free to make strike instead of guarding whole region. They will start to arrive in 2-3 weeks. Also green will be transparent for drones. no more shelters.

[cdnmatt]

Yeah, yeah... comes from the same guy who said 6 months ago he's sude the war will be over in a couple weeks.

[Dragonman]

You have no idea about Ukrainian history and sucking "history" from middle finger. Ukraine lost neutral status in eyes of Russia in 2021 when included NATO membership into constitution.

I suggest you stop being rude and offensive (which reveals so much about you), and start your own reading of Ukrainian history (and perhaps Russian history) - because there is so much wrong with your reply.

Read, e.g., "Ukraine Votes To Abandon Neutrality, Set Sights On NATO," December 23, 2014 13:26 GMT (https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-parliament-abandons-neutrality/26758725.html). The report includes the reason why Ukraine's parliament so voted in 2014: "The legislative amendment submitted by President Petro Poroshenko last week was approved with 303 "yes" votes in the 450-seat Verkhovna Rada on December 23.
A note explaining the changes in Ukraine's law on domestic and foreign policy said that the "non-bloc" status codified under then-President Viktor Yanukovych in 2010 had left Ukraine vulnerable to "external aggression and pressure."
It said that "the Russian Federation's aggression against Ukraine, its illegal annexation of Crimea...its military intervention in eastern regions" and other forms of pressure created the need for "more effective guarantees of independence, sovereignty, security, and territorial integrity."
The pro-Western leaders who came to power after Yanukovych fled in the face of protests last February have spoken for months of plans to renounce the neutral status, which prevented Ukraine from seeking NATO membership.
Kyiv and NATO accuse Russia of providing direct military support to pro-Russian separatists who have seized parts of two provinces in eastern Ukraine and fought government forces in a conflict that has killed more than 4,700 people since April."

The Ukrainian parliament adopted an amendment to its Constitution on Feburary 7, 2019 (not 2021). The amendment did/does not specify any particular dates or efforts in this regard. However, it clearly states that it is no longer possible to not move the country closer to the West. Consequently, any attempts by politicians to change the course of Ukraine towards Russia will be treated as a violation of the Constitution of Ukraine. It will make any attempts to reorient the country back toward Russia impossible.
In addition, this amendment removes a clause in the Constitution that allowed the Russian military to have access to Ukrainian military bases. Specifically, the Russian Navy will no longer have access to any Ukrainian Navy ports, including the ports in Crimea where the Russians now have vessels stationed. See, e.g., "Ukrainian Parliament Amends Constitution to Set Path for EU and NATO Membership" (https://uatv.ua/en/ukrainian-parliament-amends-constitution-set-path-eu-nato-membership/).

In other words, until Russia illegally annexed Crimea in 2014, Ukraine was, or a least regarded itself as, neutral with a non-bloc status that prevented it seeking NATO membership, which prompted the first amendment. The continued annexation and attitude of Russia prompted the second amendment.

On 18 February 2022, a German blog (https://verfassungsblog.de/would-ukraine-breach-its-own-constitution-if-it-dropped-its-nato-bid/) published an article entitled "Would Ukraine Breach its own Constitution if it Dropped its NATO Bid?" The article concluded: "As of now, Ukraine is bound by its Constitution and stepping back from its NATO aspirations does not seem to be a real prospect. That said Ukraine may be coming close to a fork in the road where it may be forced (by Russia or even its Western allies) to choose between fully upholding the Constitution (as amended in 2019) and protecting the territorial integrity of the State. One can only hope that the diplomatic efforts of the last few days will prove to be successful thus overcoming what would be a lose-lose situation for Ukraine and its people."

Shortly after that, of course, Russia began its euphemistically termed "special military operation."

[cdnmatt]

Apparently, there's now green on green attacks at Russian military training camps. Russia calls them terrorist acts, but I'm assuming it's just people pissed off because they got conscripted.

Now the Russians are killing themselves....

[Dodger]

Without a Military that's highly-trained, well-equipped, extremely motivated, being led by extremely competent officers, winning a war against a modernized military that's well-financed, well-equipped, with highly motivated soldiers led by competent officers, supported by military intelligence and special forces input/oversight from 30 galvanized nations, achieving a military victory is IMPOSSIBLE.

Putin and his military leaders know this now. The oligarchs and brain power of Russia have known this for the past 7 months. The tens of thousands of Russians (mostly highly educated) who are fleeing Russia know this...and worst of all, the soldiers who lack training and any/all motivation to enter Putin's war know this better than anyone. NATO and the UN know this. Ukraine knows this, The U.S. knows this. China and India know this.

Who does that leave?

[cdnmatt]

This whole thing is just stupid. Moses, if you're so insistent that Russia is so awesome, why don't you strap on a rifle and head to Easstern Ukraine? From the sounds of things, Russia needs all the soldiers it can get.

[cdnmatt]

Who does that leave?

Hmmm.... let me guess. Frosty the Snowman?

Problem right now is Putin is backed into a corner, because he knows full well how the Russian populous responds to a failed leader. I don't see an exit ramp for him here, so not sure what he's going to do.

[Dragonman]

Who does that leave?

Maybe what, not who, does that leave?

Götterdämmerung: a collapse (as of a society or regime) marked by catastrophic violence and disorder.

[cdnmatt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_wBv-Tm800

Heil Putin!

[Moses]

145:22 Matt... 145:22

[cdnmatt]

Think whatever you want Moses. You're forgetting the entire Western world and NATO is behind Ukraine.

The US is already heavily involved in this war, and they're better at war than Russia is, quite obviously. Most likely, it was the US that blew up Nordstream 1 pipeline, plus the bridge in Crimea.

Always remember, Russia is the one who started this war, not the West. If you Russians want to live in abject poverty for the next couple generations, that's kind of on you guys for not marching on the Kremlin. We're still waiting for you guys to march on the Kemlin and tell Putin he's out of a job btw.... seems like Russians have decided to flee the country in a mass exodus instead, so whatever, we'll work with that too.

[cdnmatt]

I'm curious Moses, what in your mind is victory? What does the Russian military need to accomplish for you to conclude Russia has been victourious in the war?

[Moses]

Always remember, Russia is the one who started this war, not the West. If you Russians want to live in abject poverty for the next couple generations, that's kind of on you guys for not marching on the Kremlin. We're still waiting for you guys to march on the Kemlin and tell Putin he's out of a job btw.... seems like Russians have decided to flee the country in a mass exodus instead, so whatever, we'll work with that too.

China already answered that: don't forget history. Everything started from inspired by US coup in 2014, which gave power to nationalists on Ukraine. Rest is just consequences.

[Dragonman]

"don't forget history."

True - Soviet/Russian history does seem to have a familiar pattern. "On November 30, 1939, nearly half a million Soviet troops stormed into Finland, beginning what would become known as the Winter War. The surprise attack came after the Kremlin, fearing a possible Nazi offensive through Finland, had insistently called for a land swap that would have pushed the Finnish border away from Leningrad (now St. Petersburg). Wary of Soviet intentions, Finland’s government refused.
Soviet planners assumed an easy victory in time for Josef Stalin's 60th birthday on December 21. It was not to be. Although the Red Army would eventually win the war, the defeat of the country of just 3.7 million people came only months later -- and at a terrible cost" (https://www.rferl.org/a/finlands-winter-war-with-the-soviet-union/30280490.html).

The 1939 Finno-Russian Winter War left 25,904 Finns dead. The Soviets lost at least 126,875 soldiers.

According ot Wikipedia "One Red Army General, looking at a map of the territory just conquered, is said to have remarked: "We have won just about enough ground to bury our dead." The official Soviet figure, issued just after the war, listed 48,745 dead and 150,863 wounded. According to Nikita Khrushchev, 1.5 million men were sent to Finland and one million of them were killed, while 1,000 aircraft, 2,300 tanks and armored cars and an enormous amount of other war materials were lost. Finland's losses were limited to 25,904 dead or missing, and 43,557 wounded." Wikipedia also reports other figures for the dead and wounded on each side but always the Russian dead and wounded massively outnumber the FInnish figures.

History repeating itself. Finland was a neutral state.

One difference between then and now, however, is that then "Unable to secure help from Britain and France, the exhausted Finns made peace (the Treaty of Moscow) on Soviet terms on March 12, 1940" (https://www.britannica.com/event/Russo-Finnish-War), while now the Ukrainians are receiving help not only from Britain and France but also a multitude of other countries - including the Russian donation of tanks, ammunition, etc., left behind by those advancing backwards.

New ratio to remember from history: 25,904: 126,875 or about 1:5

[cdnmatt]

China already answered that:

No, they didn't. Few points here:

1. China has already made it very clear they they support the sovereignty of Ukraine.

2. China already has so many internal and economic disputes at home, by no means are they in a position to start a war.

3. Even if China does start a war, it'll be directed towards Taiwan. There will be no support from China to help with Putin's bullshit invasion of Ukraine.

What blows my mind is how so many of you bull headed Russians haven't yet figured out how this goes. You're not going to win, and you're dooming your country and fellow citizens into generations of poverty for no reason. That's on you guys though. If you want to follow Putin into 50 years of abject poverty, then have fun with that. Don't blame the West for that when it happens, because it's 100% on you Russians for allowing it to happen.

[Dodger]

......China has already made it very clear they they support the sovereignty of Ukraine.

Not surprising at all that Xi took one giant leep away from Putin.

Xi has is own problems (and ambitions) to worry about, plus the fact that the Chinese are not "risk takers" to begin with. If you were playing a game of chess with a Chinese person you'd probably grow a beard by the time the game was over - because they take forever to make a move. Unlike the West, that sometimes shoots from the hips thinking in terms of weeks or months, the Chinese think in terms of Century's.

Putin's Special Operation has done nothing more than lift the curtain so the whole world, including China, can see the true capabilities of the Russian military. I've felt from the beginning that this would damage Russia's global footing more in the long-run than even the isolation and economic disaster it faces.

[Dragonman]

Xi has is own problems (and ambitions) to worry about, plus the fact that the Chinese are not "risk takers" to begin with. If you were playing a game of chess with a Chinese person you'd probably grow a beard by the time the game was over - because they take forever to make a move. Unlike the West, that sometimes shoots from the hips thinking in terms of weeks or months, the Chinese think in terms of Century's.

While it is true that Xi has his own problems (and ambitions), it is not entirely true to say that Chinese are not "risk takers" to begin with. There are, for example, many Chinese proverbs that emphasize risk-seeking or risk-taking - but only for financial and not for social reasons. Chinese, for example, are known to be great gamblers, including on stock markets.Macau exists because Chinese - and not just the oligarchs - like to gamble. If money were at stake in a game of chess, a Chinese would almost certainly be a risk-taker, but not if friendship were.

Xi, however, has a history of speaking on risk management, particularly on "black swan" (or unpredictable crisis) and "grey rhino" (predictable risks that are often ignored because one never knows when they might emerge) events.

[cdnmatt]

You know what's sad? It's estimated about 1.1 million Russians have fled since Putin ordered mobilization. That would have probably been enough people that if they marched on the Kremlin, they would have been able to overthrow the government.

And that's just the people who have left since mobilization was announced, much less all the people who left during the initial months of the war. Gather them all together for a "freedom walk" to the Kremlin / Duma, and that should be enough to let Putin know he's no longer needed.

[Dragonman]

You know what's sad? It's estimated about 1.1 million Russians have fled since Putin ordered mobilization. That would have probably been enough people that if they marched on the Kremlin, they would have been able to overthrow the government.

And that's just the people who have left since mobilization was announced, much less all the people who left during the initial months of the war. Gather them all together for a "freedom walk" to the Kremlin / Duma, and that should be enough to let Putin know he's no longer needed.

According to a report in The Moscow Times (https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/05/06/nearly-4m-russians-left-russia-in-early-2022-fsb-a77603; Updated May 6, 2022) "Nearly 4M Russians Left Russia in Early 2022 – FSB." The article states: "More than 3.8 million Russians have left the country in the first three months of 2022, according to data from Russia’s Federal Security Service (FSB). A total of 3,880,679 Russians traveled for work, business, tourism and private reasons between January and March. Former Soviet countries saw significant spikes in arrivals after Russia invaded Ukraine on Feb. 24. Russians who fled out of opposition to the war were joined by those escaping rumored border closures, martial law and mass mobilization that have so far not materialized in the 72-day war. It’s unclear how many of these Russians have since returned to their home country."

"In the first 6 months of 2022, 419,000 people emigrated from Russia, RBC news agency reports, citing data from the Federal State Statistics Service (Rosstat). This is twice as much as in the same period last year." (https://www.kyivpost.com/russia/twice-as-many-people-left-russia-in-the-first-half-of-2022-as-in-the-first-half-of-2021.html). The article points out that "Their return in the foreseeable future looks unlikely. Many people understand that as soon as they set foot on their native land, they can instantly find themselves behind bars on charges of “discrediting the Russian army.” After all, in today’s Russia, a person can be deprived of freedom even for an anti-war position or a “politically incorrect statement” on social networks."

Russians are already marching - but out of Russia, which should have shown Putin that he is no longer wanted.

[Dodger]

While it is true that Xi has his own problems (and ambitions), it is not entirely true to say that Chinese are not "risk takers" to begin with.

I stand corrected.

After reading your response I did some Google reading and it appears you're absolutely correct. I'm learning something new every day. Before this war started I though Ukraine was a small country somewhere south of Spain.

I guess even with the Chinese lust for gambling they must view "Putin" as being just a tad too risky...LOL

They like to gamble - but they ain't crazy!
.

[cdnmatt]

It's difficult to guage how many people have actually fled Russia with intentions of leaving for good. Nonetheless, let's go with 6 million as that seems like a nice, conservative estimate from all reporting out there.

6 million pissed off Russians marching on the Kremlin / Duma. That would put an end to this atrocity of a war real quick.

And that's what the West is waiting / hoping for. It's up to the Russian people to realize they're being duped by Putin though, and nothing anyone in the West can do about that. I wish the West would do more in regards to supplying Ukraine with the weaponary it's requesting, but I'm hardly in a position to be making those calls.

Who knows, I don't care. I just want to give my dude a hug at the airport, get the house setup, grab the kids, then buy them a couple puppies while I listen to their excitement as they find out they're now dog owners. Kind of like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQTfElvFmBM

[Moses]

It's difficult to guage how many people have actually fled Russia with intentions of leaving for good. Nonetheless, let's go with 6 million as that seems like a nice, conservative estimate from all reporting out there.

6 million pissed off Russians marching on the Kremlin / Duma. That would put an end to this atrocity of a war real quick.

And that's what the West is waiting / hoping for. It's up to the Russian people to realize they're being duped by Putin though, and nothing anyone in the West can do about that. I wish the West would do more in regards to supplying Ukraine with the weaponary it's requesting, but I'm hardly in a position to be making those calls.

Who knows, I don't care. I just want to give my dude a hug at the airport, get the house setup, grab the kids, then buy them a couple puppies while I listen to their excitement as they find out they're now dog owners. Kind of like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQTfElvFmBM

Darling, total amount who left and yet is not returned is 750 000. Numbers corresponding with numbers of border guards of countries to where Russians leaving. On September 1st it was 419000. After it here was panic from about September 15 till about October 1st and many (few hundreds of thousands ran).

By the way: since mobilization is almost over and many categories like IT-specialists declared "can't be mobilized", panic is over, and inflow is 1.5 times bigger than outflow now. We have daily statistic.

For example minister of foreign affairs of Kazakhstan told, what from 220 000 Russians who visiting KZ, 147 000 already returned to Russia.
https://www.caravan.kz/news/rossiyane-sobirayutsya-massovo-vozvrashhatsya-iz-kazakhstana-na-rodinu-smi-882339/ (it is Kazakh source, use Google translator)

P.S. Mayor of Moscow just declared end of mobilization in Moscow region. On past week few regions also declared end of mobilization.

[cdnmatt]

I'm not your darling.

[Moses]

I'm not your darling.

Did I wrote "my"?

[Dragonman]

For example minister of foreign affairs of Kazakhstan told, what from 220 000 Russians who visiting KZ, 147 000 already returned to Russia.
https://www.caravan.kz/news/rossiyane-sobirayutsya-massovo-vozvrashhatsya-iz-kazakhstana-na-rodinu-smi-882339/ (it is Kazakh source, use Google translator.

I did, and what the article actually says is: Kazakh Interior Minister Marat Akhmetzhanov said that Russians have started leaving the country en masse. More than 200,000 Russian citizens have entered Kazakhstan, and 147,000 have returned home, he said."

However, it also explains why.
"The authors of mosregtoday.ru cite several stories of Russians stranded in Kazakhstan. The interlocutors of the publication told about why some of their compatriots eventually return to the Russian Federation.
Natalia P., a Russian, has been living in Almaty for two weeks with her husband. The couple are working remotely, and they are faced with the problem of finding a home. "The entire flow of migrants is headed to the major cities of Kazakhstan, which are now facing big housing problems. Prices have doubled. If earlier one-room apartment in the center could be rented for 20 thousand rubles., now it will cost from 40 thousand rubles., and then, if you are lucky. But even the price - no longer the main thing, there are no apartments themselves, all removed", - said the Russian woman.
Denis T., for example, has been living in one of Kazakhstan's oblasts for a week. "I have been signed to many groups emigrating to Kazakhstan. If there used to be a lot of questions about going across the border or finding a home, now it really began to ask how to get back home. Denis says that the Kazakhs are a very benevolent people, and he has no problems with the paperwork. Everything was done quickly and without a language barrier.
"I think they're mostly leaving because of work," he said. Here, the pay is several times lower than in Russia, "- said Denis.
Retired military analyst and colonel Viktor Litovkin noted that many Russians left for Kazakhstan in a hurry and then realized that they had nowhere to live and work. "What else can they do? Of course, to go home. I think this trend will grow," the expert said."

[Moses]

I did, and what the article actually says is: Kazakh Interior Minister Marat Akhmetzhanov said that Russians have started leaving the country en masse. More than 200,000 Russian citizens have entered Kazakhstan, and 147,000 have returned home, he said."


Yes. Mobilization is almost over, panic is over, money are over. So dream of propagandists about 6 millions is over. Right now correct number is around 750 000 and contracts.

[Dragonman]

Yes. Panic is over, money is over. So dreams of propagandists about 6 millions is over. Right now correct number is around 750 000 and contracts.

However, the Kazakh report was only half the story - the rest is at https://www.rferl.org/a/kazakhstan-200-000-russians-enter-country-mobilization/32064860.html:

"Kazakh Interior Minister Marat Akhmetzhanov says 200,000 Russian citizens have entered the country since Russian President Vladimir Putin announced a partial mobilization on September 21 amid Moscow’s ongoing invasion of Ukraine.
Akhmetzhanov also said on October 4 that 147,000 Russian citizens left Kazakhstan in the same period of time. He did not mention where the Russians were heading but last week Kazakh authorities said that tens of thousands of those Russians who entered Kazakhstan in recent days, moved further to neighboring Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan.
Akhmetzhanov said that the number of Russians entering Kazakhstan has started decreasing since the weekend. Media reports said earlier that Russian authorities had placed mobile conscription stations at Russian-Kazakh border checkpoints.
Akhmetzhanov said last week that Kazakhstan will extradite Russian citizens to Russia only if they are officially added to international wanted lists.
Kazakh President Qasym-Zhomart Toqaev said earlier that he plans to hold talks with the Russian government regarding the influx of Russians, mostly males, to the country after the start of Russia's mobilization.
Kazakhstan's Digital Development Ministry said on October 4 that since September 21, more than 70,000 Russian citizens had applied and received personal identification numbers that allows them to set up bank accounts and work in Kazakhstan.
RFE/RL's correspondents from many towns and cities in Kazakhstan report that long lines of mostly Russian citizens continue to stand next to Public Service Centers seeking to receive such numbers.
Russian citizens do not need travel passports or visas to enter Kazakhstan for 30 days."

Si, if this report, which use Kazakh sources is correct, then the Russians haven't returned to Russia but have moved on to other countries in search of work and somewhere in which to live. Nor were the 147,000 who have left necessarily part of the 200,000 who had arrived.

Moreover, one of the reasons why the number of people fleeing to Kazakhstan had dropped was because of the mobile recruiting stations placed at the border.

[Moses]

However, the Kazakh report was only half the story - the rest is at https://www.rferl.org/a/kazakhstan-200-000-russians-enter-country-mobilization/32064860.html:

"Kazakh Interior Minister Marat Akhmetzhanov says 200,000 Russian citizens have entered the country since Russian President Vladimir Putin announced a partial mobilization on September 21 amid Moscow’s ongoing invasion of Ukraine.
Akhmetzhanov also said on October 4 that 147,000 Russian citizens left Kazakhstan in the same period of time. He did not mention where the Russians were heading but last week Kazakh authorities said that tens of thousands of those Russians who entered Kazakhstan in recent days, moved further to neighboring Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan.
Akhmetzhanov said that the number of Russians entering Kazakhstan has started decreasing since the weekend. Media reports said earlier that Russian authorities had placed mobile conscription stations at Russian-Kazakh border checkpoints.
Akhmetzhanov said last week that Kazakhstan will extradite Russian citizens to Russia only if they are officially added to international wanted lists.
Kazakh President Qasym-Zhomart Toqaev said earlier that he plans to hold talks with the Russian government regarding the influx of Russians, mostly males, to the country after the start of Russia's mobilization.
Kazakhstan's Digital Development Ministry said on October 4 that since September 21, more than 70,000 Russian citizens had applied and received personal identification numbers that allows them to set up bank accounts and work in Kazakhstan.
RFE/RL's correspondents from many towns and cities in Kazakhstan report that long lines of mostly Russian citizens continue to stand next to Public Service Centers seeking to receive such numbers.
Russian citizens do not need travel passports or visas to enter Kazakhstan for 30 days."

Si, if this report, which use Kazakh sources is correct, then the Russians haven't returned to Russia but have moved on to other countries in search of work and somewhere in which to live. Nor were the 147,000 who have left necessarily part of the 200,000 who had arrived.

Moreover, one of the reasons why the number of people fleeing to Kazakhstan had dropped was because of the mobile recruiting stations placed at the border.

Manipulations and propaganda.

I already posted report what daily outflow to Kazakhstan now is around 7000, inflow from Kazakhstan is 11 000 daily.

About 70% of Russians have no travel passport, so they can't "move further to Uzbekistan or Kyrgyzstan " despite speculation of author... moreover, looks like author never been in named countries... because to live there is almost like to live in Afghanistan. That why immigration to Russia from these countries is so high even now.

As per "mobile recruiting stations" - it is total bullshit and to write that may only person who has D or F in geography. Russia is federal country of 85 sovereign regions. Mobile station exists, but they are working for region where are stay. For example mobile station in Ossetia on the border with Georgia may mobilize only citizens of Ossetia, population of all other 84 regions may run free because this station isn't from their region and has no competences. Did you saw any picture with all 85 "mobile stations" on the one crossing border point?

Here how look regions:
12816

[Dragonman]

On October 1, you claimed to be in the middle of the action, but later you stated your information came from family members (in undisclosed locations). As you continue not to cite any authoritative sources for your statements, there is no grounds to believe anything you write.

Unless you've lived in Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan - or Afghanistan - your views on what living there is like are merely displays of prejudice, not statements of fact.

Your postings suggest someone whistling in the dark.

[cdnmatt]

Reports now coming out that Russia is rounding up people from homeless shelters as conscripts.

[Dragonman]

Reports now coming out that Russia is rounding up people from homeless shelters as conscripts.

Conscription is enlisting (someone) compulsorily, typically into the armed services. It is the act of involuntary labor demanded by some established authority.

The reported actions (“Russia 'is rounding up HOMELESS people as part of its military mobilization': Men 'are grabbed while queueing up for food and forced onto buses'” (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11307465/Russia-rounding-HOMELESS-people-military-mobilisation.html) and “Russia is grabbing men off the street to fight in Ukraine” (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/10/16/russia-mobilization-men/) suggest that the Russia Federation’s armed forces are using “impressment,” which Merriam Webster defines as “to procure or enlist by forcible persuasion,” and as “the act of seizing for public use or of impressing into public service.” Grabbing men of the streets by using the 21st century equivalent of “press gangs” would seem to match the definitions.

While both conscription and impressment are forms of involuntary military service, the former is the more organized and legal way for governments to mandate military services while the latter has decidedly rougher connotations. For example, James McPherson, Battle Cry of Freedom , Oxford 2004, page 833: A month later the governors of six more states, meeting in conference, enigmatically urged the impressment of slaves for ‘the public service as may be required.’”

[cdnmatt]

Yes, I'm aware of what conscription is. I just never knew the Russian leadership was so depraved and desparate they would go to this extent.

I've never served a day in my life, but I'm even intelligent enough to know that rounding up folks from homeless shelters probably isn't going to create a highly effective fighting force. It's just a hunch, but pretty sure I'm right on this one.

Geez, what insanity... It's just straight up cannon fodder at this point.

Why are the Russian people not rising up yet? Have 5 million people march on the Kremlin / Duma to let Putin know his services are no longer necessary, and this shit would be over tomorrow.

[Dodger]

Do I at least get a helmet?

[Moses]

Reports now coming out that Russia is rounding up people from homeless shelters as conscripts.

Matty, "reports" also coming out what Russia supplies soldiers with viagra for to f*ck enemy soldiers, Even New York Times published that bullshit. Dragonman for sure will take it seriously as a "fact".

[Dragonman]

Yes, I'm aware of what conscription is. I just never knew the Russian leadership was so depraved and desparate they would go to this extent.... Geez, what insanity... It's just straight up cannon fodder at this point. .

My intention in defining conscription was not to insult anyone's intelligence but to establish that it is a lawful procedure when compared with the reports of what is actually happening as the mobilization falls short of the 300,000-man target, i.e., "Russia says over 200,000 drafted into army since Putin's decree" (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-over-200000-drafted-into-army-since-putins-decree-2022-10-04/). The Washington Post actually refers to what the military forces are using as "press gangs" (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/10/16/russia-mobilization-men/).

This conscription takes places after the failure of the spring recruitment period: "The 2022 spring conscription, which ran from April 1 to July 15, was supposed to recruit 134,500 soldiers. However, on July 11, Sergei Shoygu, the defense minister, said that by this date only 89,000 had been sent to the military units. His statement revealed that the spring conscription was a de facto failure." (https://cepa.org/article/russias-military-manpower-crunch-will-worsen/).

I suspect this this mobilization is also a de facto failure.

[cdnmatt]

Yeah, no worries, I no longer take offense to anything. I practice stoicism daily, plus am 40 now and have been through too much bullshit to care anymore.

It still doesn't make sense though. This must have been a decision from the politicians, because there's no way a military general signed off on this plan. Again, I have no military experience, but even I know rounding up the homeless and sending them to the front lines probably isn't going to achieve the greatest results on the battle field.

Here's a prime example as to how Russia and the West are different. I would love to see the US military start going around to homeless shelters in Houston, Texas and telling people they're now drafted and being sent to Ukraine to help in the war effort. Let's see how that goes! I lived in Texas for a year before, so I'm pretty sure I already know the end of that story. Very quickly, whoever the US President is at the time gets informed he's now unemployed.

[Dragonman]

Matty, "reports" also coming out what Russia supplies soldiers with viagra for to f*ck enemy soldiers, Even New York Times published that bullshit. Dragonman for sure will take it seriously as a "fact".

As I posted earlier, I don't believe anything you write unless and until there is an authoritative source cited for what you report. This posting is an example of why I believe nothing you post because I can find no link in the Internet to such an article by the New York Times - although there are several other, older, reports on the topic of the use of rape by Russian forces in the newspaper, e.g., a report from MARCH 29, 2022, updated APRIL 3, viz, "Reports of sexual violence involving Russian soldiers are multiplying, Ukrainian officials say" (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/29/world/europe/russian-soldiers-sexual-violence-ukraine.html). I counted around 10 such reports on the Internet dating back to Bucha - a name I am sure you remember.

The use of sexual violence in Ukraine by Russian forces was first mentioned at the UN on June 6, 2022: "Reports of sexual violence in Ukraine rising fast, Security Council hears" (https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/06/1119832) by Pramila Patten.

The current reports on Viagra being issued to Russian soldiers seem to originate from a report On October 13 by Pramila Patten, Representative of the U.N. Secretary-General on Sexual Violence in Conflict, in which she "confirmed that rape is part of Russia’s “military strategy” and a “deliberate tactic to dehumanize the victims.” She emphasized that “when women are held for days and raped, when you start to rape little boys and men, when you see a series of genital mutilations, when you hear women testify about Russian soldiers equipped with Viagra, it's clearly a military strategy.”
According to Patten, the United Nations managed to verify more than a hundred cases of rape or sexual assault in Ukraine since Russia invaded in February 2022. The data obtained to date suggests that the age of the victims of sexual violence ranges from four to 82 years old. The victims are mostly women and girls, but also men and boys. Patten added that “it's very difficult to have reliable statistics during an active conflict, and the numbers will never reflect reality, because sexual violence is a silent crime.” As such, as she noted, “reported cases are only the tip of the iceberg” (see https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewelinaochab/2022/10/14/united-nations-rape-is-part-of-russias-military-strategy/?sh=1803722836a0).

It was subsequently reported by other news sources, including https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/russiaukraine-war-russia-ukraine-news-vladimir-putin-news-russia-giving-soldiers-viagra-to-rape-ukrainians-un-envoy-pramila-patten-says-report-101665917929633.html, https://nypost.com/2022/10/15/russia-is-giving-soldiers-viagra-to-rape-ukrainians-un-official/, https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-soldiers-supplied-with-viagra-to-rape-ukrainians-un-official-2022-10, https://www.marca.com/en/lifestyle/world-news/2022/10/16/634b53af46163fd3248b456c.html, and https://newsroom.gy/2022/10/15/russia-is-giving-soldiers-viagra-to-rape-ukrainians-un-official/.

CSM Times (https://csmtimes.com/russia-responds-to-rumours-about-viagra-for-russian-soldiers-in-ukraine) reports that "The Russian Foreign Ministry responded to recent remarks from Pramila Patten, UN Secretary General Special Representative, who claimed that Russian military men supposedly used Viagra when committing sex crimes in Ukraine. Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said that Patten's remarks "go beyond reason and can not be taken seriously." "Her words go beyond reason. In addition, the official is obviously acting outside her mandate and powers. At the same time, she does not hide the fact that in her judgments she relies on fragmentary data from an "independent international commission of inquiry into Ukraine" that Russia does not recognize. As she acknowledged herself, it was difficult to verify that information. In other words, we have yet another classic "highly likely case", only this time at the level of perverted fantasy," Maria Zakharova said."

Zakharova, however, did not deny that rapes had occurred - only that the soldiers had to resort to using Viagra.

The story of Russian rape in Ukraine is not new - the only new part is the idea that young Russian recruits need Viagra to perform. Given the recent performance of Russian forces in advancing backwards, I would not be surprised if there was some substance to the story, however.

[Moses]

New black hole on the Earth:


https://youtu.be/uPg5ORIXAmk

[Dodger]

The story of Russian rape in Ukraine is not new - the only new part is the idea that young Russian recruits need Viagra to perform.

No doubt the work of those newly recruited Homeless Hobo's.

[Dragonman]

New black hole on the Earth:


https://youtu.be/uPg5ORIXAmk

Is that a racist comment about the two presenters?

[Moses]

Is that a racist comment about the two presenters?

Looks like you not saw video? There presenters prepare public to listen sounds of black hole and then Ukrainian president Zelenskiy starts to talk.

[latintopxxx]

...very quick to jump to conclusions arent we...

[vnman]

I have not been in this thread, so I have no idea where everyone stands, but I thought it would be funny to share this great piece of Russian propaganda.

It is Important to understand that this was a commercial that ran in Russia in 2018. It was basically a warning from Putin to the Russian people: "this will happen if you don't vote"

:dash:

https://youtu.be/4OlOUK7WlCE?t=120

[Dragonman]

Looks like you not saw video? There presenters prepare public to listen sounds of black hole and then Ukrainian president Zelenskiy starts to talk.

I did watch it, and two thoughts came to mind: (1) little things please little minds, and (2) Moses is watching a Detroit. Michigan news channel, so he's not in the middle of the action, which explains why he has to rely on the gossip of family members.

[cdnmatt]

https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v2_rul_rule42

Oh look, another violation of the Geneva Convention. Rape, torture, and bombing of hospitals and elementary schools is all in there too, but I guess Russia is just seeing how many violations they can rack up.

[Dragonman]

https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v2_rul_rule42

Oh look, another violation of the Geneva Convention. Rape, torture, and bombing of hospitals and elementary schools is all in there too, but I guess Russia is just seeing how many violations they can rack up.

Moses' favorite general, however, has stated that "Russia warns Ukraine plans attack on Kherson with «prohibited methods of warfare»" (https://news360.es/australia/2022/10/18/russia-warns-ukraine-plans-attack-on-kherson-with-prohibited-methods-of-warfare-4/): "According to the Russian military high command, the Ukrainian Army could carry out a «massive missile attack» against the dam of the Kakhovskaya hydroelectric power station, located in the town of New Kakhovka.
Precisely this Tuesday Moscow has denounced a Ukrainian attack in this town, located in Kherson, where, they say, two people have lost their lives and a third has been wounded by shrapnel.
In addition, the pro-Russian governor of Kherson, Volodimir Saldo, has reported that the population of the eastern sector of the region has begun to be evacuated to the western part of the Dnieper River due to threats of a possible attack on the hydroelectric power plant.
Also, Surovikin has warned that Kiev is planning «a massive missile and artillery attack on the city without an analysis of the targets», according to the Russian news agency TASS.
«These actions may lead to the destruction of the infrastructure of a large industrial center and a large number of civilian casualties,» the top Russian military leader for the «special military operation» in Ukraine concluded."

A whiff of hypocrisy?

[cdnmatt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h48yLWopgYo

And to think, back in February it was clear to everyone that Putin wanted to go into Poland and Romania as well. Pretty sure those hopes are in the toilet now.

[Moses]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h48yLWopgYo

And to think, back in February it was clear to everyone that Putin wanted to go into Poland and Romania as well. Pretty sure those hopes are in the toilet now.

No. Target #1 after Ukraine is Canada - the same climate, the same nature. #2 is Australia - because is laying just on opposite side of the Earth: just drill tunnel to, from Canada, also there are living kangaroo, they are cute.

What to do with Poland and Romania? Romania is poor, in Poland Poles always ask for donations and reparations. Now they ask for reparations for WWII, then will ask for reparations for WWI, then Napoleon's wars.

[cdnmatt]

Nope, pretty sure Putin was reminising about the great Soviet Union. Those dreams should now be in the toilet. Russia can't even hold Eastern Ukraine, much less Kiev, Warsaw, Krakow, or Bucharest.

[Moses]

Nope, pretty sure Putin was reminising about the great Soviet Union. Those dreams should now be in the toilet. Russia can't even hold Eastern Ukraine, much less Kiev, Warsaw, Krakow, or Bucharest.

Romania and Poland never been parts of USSR

[Dragonman]

What to do with Poland and Romania? Romania is poor, in Poland Poles always ask for donations and reparations. Now they ask for reparations for WWII, then will ask for reparations for WWI, then Napoleon's wars.

GDP per Capita by Country 2022

Poland: Ranking: 41 - GDP per Capita: $34,103
Romania: Ranking: 48 - GDP per Capita: $30,526
Russia: Ranking: 53 - GDP per Capita: $27,903

Source: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gdp-per-capita-by-country

[Moses]

GDP per Capita by Country 2022

Poland: Ranking: 41 - GDP per Capita: $34,103
Romania: Ranking: 48 - GDP per Capita: $30,526
Russia: Ranking: 53 - GDP per Capita: $27,903

Source: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gdp-per-capita-by-country

The most stupid comparation. Newbies always compare GDPs without correction on internal consumption. for to compare countries you should always use GDP PPP, only for countries like Qatar or Luxemburg it isn't important - more than half of GDP is going to export.

You already saw: monthly amount of gas here for one family costs $3 and counted like $3 in GDP, monthly amount of gas in Poland costs $600 and counted as $600 in GDP, but it is the same amount of gas. The same story with all natural resources and their products. By the way: Poland also count as GDP EU dotation in tens of billions Euro...

[cdnmatt]

It's quite obvious Putin had aspirations outside of Ukraine, hence this whole discussion is stupid.

[Dragonman]

The most stupid comparation. Newbies always compare GDPs without correction on internal consumption. for to compare countries you should always use GDP PPP, only for countries like Qatar or Luxemburg it isn't important - more than half of GDP is going to export.

You already saw: monthly amount of gas here for one family costs $3 and counted like $3 in GDP, monthly amount of gas in Poland costs $600 and counted as $600 in GDP, but it is the same amount of gas. The same story with all natural resources and their products. By the way: Poland also count as GDP EU dotation in tens of billions Euro...

As usual, you change the ground on which you respond to comments. Your original posting referred to the countries of Poland and Romania as being poor, while your present response refers to the citizens of those countries and the cost of certain goods to them.

Your indicators of relative wealth are cherry-picking the data, i.e., you focus on gas, which Russia produces but Poland, for example, does not. How much have food prices risen in Russia compared with those elsewhere (see, e.g., https://www.reuters.com/business/retail-consumer/russian-weekly-consumer-prices-rise-second-week-running-2022-10-05/)?

Why don't you mention, e.g., manufactured goods prices, particularly those using imported components - see "Prices for car parts in Russia have gone up by an average of 31% since Moscow invaded Ukraine, the Kommersant business daily reported Friday" (https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/05/13/ukraine-war-drives-up-russias-auto-part-prices-kommersant-a77663)?

Reports in August suggested that "Russia faces ‘economic oblivion’ despite claims of short-term resilience, economists say" (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/02/russia-faces-economic-oblivion-despite-short-term-resilience.html). The article states "However, many economists see long-lasting costs to the Russian economy from the exit of foreign firms, the loss of its long-term oil and gas markets, and its diminished access to critical imports of technology and inputs." It also refers to "falling living standards in recent months have weighed on consumer demand, hitting retail sales and leading to an extended period of deflation over the summer. High inflation has for years been a top concern for Russian households as it dents their spending power and eats into living standards."

You mention using PPP. One common way of measuring wealth is what is known as the Big Mac Index (based on the relative cost of a Big Mac hamburger) or Big Mac PPP (because it measures purchasing power between currencies). The 2022 Index suggests that both the Romanian and Polish currencies are under-valued but (for obvious reasons) the Russian ruble is not included (https://fxssi.com/big-mac-index).

[Moses]

=======Your indicators of relative wealth are cherry-picking the data, i.e., you focus on gas, which Russia produces but Poland, for example, does not. How much have food prices risen in Russia compared with those elsewhere (see, e.g., https://www.reuters.com/business/ret...-2022-10-05/)?

past 6 months we have deflation here, and most got cheaper - food... it is falling in prices, not rosining, prices are now below numbers what were in winter because ruble got 20% stronger and all import is now 20% cheaper

manufacturers of pork for example are crying because sale price is below their expenses (in general they lie, but they really have low margin)

1 kg of fresh cooled pork without fat and bones is $4 - lower than chickens... (prices are in rubles, divide to 62 for USD, prices are from middle class supermarket, low level have lower prices but less service)

12819

here is fresh cooled beef, best parts, no fat or bones, around $12 per 1 kg

12820

fresh cooled chicken breasts, $4.8 per 1kg

12821

all these products are domestic, so prices not fell as dramatic as on imported products...

[cdnmatt]

Alright, now martial law imposed, and reports coming out the residents are being forced to Russia.

Moses, quit acting like Russia is some huge super power. It's not.

[Moses]

Alright, now martial law imposed, and reports coming out the residents are being forced to Russia.

Moses, quit acting like Russia is some huge super power. It's not.

Martial law imposed only on territories what been taken by Russia - i.e. 4 formerly Ukrainian regions... it is not a news for them: they already were under martial law from Feb 24, but now it is Russian law instead of Ukrainian.

To Russia? You just said words what are criminal by Ukrainian law since they are evacuating to Crimea. It is correct news - citizens who are living on the right bank of Dnepr river are evacuating to left bank, because governors of new regions expecting bombing of right bank by Ukraine and also bombing of Khahovka dam above Kherson by Dnepr that may lead to high level flood.

Crimea is just in 100 km

12822

[Dragonman]

Once again, you shift the grounds on which you have tried to construct a convincing argument by posting jpg and png images without stating from when and where they originate. They prove nothing about the current situation.

And, once again, you cherry pick the products on which you attempt - badly - to construct an argument, focusing only on foodstuffs.

Other sources contradict your claims of deflation, too. For example, "Aug 29 (Reuters) - Russia's First Deputy Prime Minister Andrei Belousov said inflation will come in at 12-13% in 2022, below earlier expectations, as the economy looks set to defy the gloomiest predictions of a near collapse in the face of Western sanctions" (https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/russias-inflation-will-be-12-13-2022-kremlin-aide-says-2022-08-29/).

Statistica reports that In September 2022, the inflation rate in Russia reached 13.7 percent compared to the same month of the previous year. The figure marked a decrease from August 2022, when it stood at 14.3 percent (https://www.statista.com/statistics/276323/monthly-inflation-rate-in-russia/).

Trading Economics (https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/inflation-cpi) reported that "The annual inflation rate in Russia eased to 13.7 percent in September of 2022 from 14.3 percent in the previous month, the lowest since February and compared with market expectations of 13.6 percent. The main upward pressure came from non-food products (14.9 percent), followed closely by food prices (14.2 percent), and services (11 percent). Also, core consumer prices advanced 14.1 percent from a year earlier, easing from a 17.7 percent jump in the previous month. On a monthly basis, consumer prices edged up 0.1 percent, after a 0.5 percent decrease in August. source: Federal State Statistics Service."

If the Russian Federal State Statistics Service reports an annual inflation rate for September 2022 of 13.7%, I'll believe them over your claims of deflation.

Are you claiming that a failing inflation rate equals deflation, because the general definitions are "Inflation is an increase in the general prices of goods and services in an economy. Deflation, conversely, is the general decline in prices for goods and services, indicated by an inflation rate that falls below zero percent" (https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/111414/what-difference-between-inflation-and-deflation.asp).

An inflation rate of 13.7% is definitely not below zero percent!

So much for being a newbie!!

[Moses]

An inflation rate of 13.7% is definitely not below zero percent!

So much for being a newbie!!

Once again: I can read Russian, you cant, I know real sources of information, you are collecting "news" from filtered medias.

For example inflation (whole) is now 13.1% and it was in news in Russian language day ago, but you still have no idea about it because each local news should be translated and then filtered by Western medias, usually they are1-2 days late if it isn't breaking news. And inflation is inducted mainly by prices of services and luxury, somehow by prices of cars and electronics what are imported by unofficial channels.

Once again, you said pictures without source, but anyone who can read Russian see source right on the picture. You are so self-confident while have no idea what's going on here and trying to imagine picture by filtered medias. Don't be lazy, use Google Lenz for translation.

And about deflation says numbers itself: in February it was 18% and Biden-Alzheimer even promised 24% till the end of the year, current number is 13,1% and that means prices are going down and here is deflation 18->13,1. Unfortunately for mr Alzheimer Bank of Russia has huge practice to tame inflation, and last 6 months here is deflation, but 20-25% of inflation is in countries of EU - Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania - they were too much active in imposing sanctions and political emotions won against economical mind.

PS> movement from 13,7 to 13,1 isn't zero definitely - it is below zero: past 6 months inflation is negative, i.e. deflation.

[cdnmatt]

Again Moses, I would like to ask you, what's your version of victory here? What does Russia need to achieve in order for you to feel as though Russia has been victourious?

[Dragonman]

Then I'll quote a Russian source from 6 October 2022.

"Weekly inflation in Russia down to 0.07% — statistics. It is noted that consumer prices rose by 10.4% from the year beginning
MOSCOW, October 5. /TASS/. Weekly inflation in Russia amounted to 0.07% from September 27 to October 3, 2022, the Federal Statistics Service (Rosstat) reported on Wednesday. Inflation was 0.08% a week earlier.
Consumer prices rose by 10.4% from the year beginning and by 0.03% since the start of October." (https://tass.com/economy/1518397).

As you know, TASS is a major Russian state-owned news agency, is the largest Russian news agency and one of the largest news agencies worldwide. Moreover, TASS is registered as a Federal State Unitary Enterprise, owned by the Government of Russia.

If a Russian state-owned news agency refers to "inflation" in Russia in October 2022, I will believe that there is inflation in Russia, particularly when the source states that "consumer prices rose by 10.4% from the year beginning."

Or is TASS lying to its international readers?

[Dragonman]

PS> movement from 13,7 to 13,1 isn't zero definitely - it is below zero: past 6 months inflation is negative, i.e. deflation.

No, because you misunderstand what deflation is. It is a drop in inflation of 0.6% only - which is actually still above zero.

A drop from 13.7% to 13.1% is a lower inflation rate, but it is still way above a zero percent inflation rate (i.e., 0%) and is definitely not a negative rate.

For example, a zero percent interest on your bank account is written as 0%, not as a reduction in the interest rate from 13.7% to 13.1%.

Interestingly, official data for food prices contradicts your claims: "Cost of food in Russia increased 14.20 percent in September of 2022 over the same month in the previous year. source: Federal State Statistics Service" (https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/food-inflation).

[Moses]

No, because you misunderstand what deflation is. It is a drop in inflation of 0.6% only - which is actually still above zero.

A drop from 13.7% to 13.1% is a lower inflation rate, but it is still way above a zero percent inflation rate (i.e., 0%) and is definitely not a negative rate.

For example, a zero percent interest on your bank account is written as 0%, not as a reduction in the interest rate from 13.7% to 13.1%.

Interestingly, official data for food prices contradicts your claims: "Cost of food in Russia increased 14.20 percent in September of 2022 over the same month in the previous year. source: Federal State Statistics Service" (https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/food-inflation).

It is you who don't understand what deflation is. Numbers 13.1, 13.7 etc are cumulative inflation in yearly measurement. When number decrease that means inflation in current time is negative. When on the week yearly inflation changes from 13.7 to 13.1 that means what inflation counted separately on this week is negative (i.e. deflation) and that has influence on yearly counted inflation - it contracts.

[Moses]

Again Moses, I would like to ask you, what's your version of victory here? What does Russia need to achieve in order for you to feel as though Russia has been victourious?

Me personally?


A change in the government of Ukraine,
the abolition of the language law,
the recognition of the status of the Russian language as a regional official language in regions where more than 20% of Russians live,
the prohibition of fascist symbols and ideology,
the declaration of soldiers of SS divisions heroized in Ukraine as war criminals and the abolition of the renaming of streets named after them,
changing the constitution of Ukraine in the part where it is declared that Ukraine will join NATO and introducing a statement about the neutral status of the country there.



And, of course, the recognition of Crimea as Russian, an apology for 8 years of bombings of the population of Donbass and Luhansk and recognition of their right to self-determination.

[Dragonman]

It is you who don't understand what deflation is. Numbers 13.1, 13.7 etc are cumulative inflation in yearly measurement. When number decrease that means inflation in current time is negative. When on the week yearly inflation changes from 13.7 to 13.1 that means what inflation counted separately on this week is negative (i.e. deflation) and that has influence on yearly counted inflation - it contracts.

I suggest you look at the diagram in this guide - "Statistical literacy guide - How to adjust for inflation (https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN04962/SN04962.pdf).

Any inflation rate about zero percent, even if it is falling, is still inflation. The fact that some journalists may refer to falls in inflation as deflation does not mean that deflation as occurred,

Even The Bank of Russia (https://www.cbr.ru/eng/press/event/?id=14243) reports, 17th October, 2022 - "Annual inflation slows down in most regions in September." The article does NOT mention the term deflation - and one would think the The Central Bank of the Russian Federation, doing business as the Bank of Russia, would know if the country is experiencing deflation or a decline in inflation!

[Moses]

I suggest you look at the diagram in this guide - "Statistical literacy guide - How to adjust for inflation (https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN04962/SN04962.pdf).

Any inflation rate about zero percent, even if it is falling, is still inflation. The fact that some journalists may refer to falls in inflation as deflation does not mean that deflation as occurred,

Even The Bank of Russia (https://www.cbr.ru/eng/press/event/?id=14243) reports, 17th October, 2022 - "Annual inflation slows down in most regions in September." The article does NOT mention the term deflation - and one would think the The Central Bank of the Russian Federation, doing business as the Bank of Russia, would know if the country is experiencing deflation or a decline in inflation!

looks like you cannot read... "even Bank of Russia " wrote clear "annual"... but I third time explain to you: weekly inflation may be positive and negative...

do you understand difference btw "cumulative" and "discrete"? cumulative (i.e. annual) inflation in Russia is now 13.1% (despite prognoses 25%), discrete inflation on week 41 is negative and that is reflected on cumulative (annual) inflation as contraction from 13,7 to 13,1

[Moses]

wow... most short ruled PM in UK? Trussonomic made her very bright but short living star on the political sky...

when you think more about sanctions than about own economic shit may happens... emotions, emotions...

[NitNoi]

"Lies, damned lies, and statistics" as popularized by Mark Twain. The CPI (or whatever they call it in Russia) is a noisy number.
Using the change over a year is reasonable but over one week is swamped by noise. Claiming deflation because the annual rate this week is marginally less that last week? See the above quote.

[Moses]

"Lies, damned lies, and statistics" as popularized by Mark Twain. The CPI (or whatever they call it in Russia) is a noisy number.
Using the change over a year is reasonable but over one week is swamped by noise. Claiming deflation because the annual rate this week is marginally less that last week? See the above quote.

Sure. But these "weeks" are going one by one 6 months already and trend is clearly visible - from 18% to 13,1 in yearly counting.

[Andy]

Meanwhile state duma (russian parliament) are ready to improve anti-gay law making any announcement about gay theme illegal in public and media, except in negative connotation. Even for openly declaring that your are gay can lead you to a huge fine or even imprisonment. Really Moses, I don't understand how you can stand for this bastards and being gay in the same time?

[cdnmatt]

Really Moses, I don't understand how you can stand for this bastards and being gay in the same time?

Obviously, his hatred of the West has scrambled his brain so much he's no longer capable of retional thinking.

[Moses]

Really Moses, I don't understand how you can stand for this bastards and being gay in the same time?

It is easy: for me "Russia" isn't equal "govt" or "Putin".

[Dragonman]

It is not my understanding of the terms that is the problem - it is yours.

As I noted earlier (several times, I believe), there is some confusion about the terms but they have quite specific meanings - as the various sources I've mentioned state.

But to simplify things: A weekly drop in inflation is negative inflation, i.e., falling prices over a short period.
Negative inflation is often caused by a sharp drop in the price of certain goods or services - in the case of Russia, apparently food prices.
Negative inflation is a general price decrease that is not sustainable.
This is a temporary decrease that is part of a general trend of rising prices.

Over the medium to long term, that is called deflation.
The term deflation is used if the decline occurs over 3 consecutive quarters (so the general price trend is downward) or by some economists if the inflation rate is zero (the late Nobel Prize-winning US economist Milton Friedman was an advocate of zero inflation in monetary policy).

Weekly fluctuations are, therefore, negative inflation.

That is why, for example, there can be headlines like "Russia seen holding rates at 7.5% until year-end as inflation remains elevated" (https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/russia-seen-holding-rates-75-until-year-end-inflation-remains-elevated-2022-09-30/), and why, in September 2022, the inflation rate in Russia reached 13.7 percent relative to the corresponding period of the previous year.

So, to put it simply, weekly downward fluctuations in inflation rates do not constitute deflation but are negative inflation if there is still an inflation rate about zero percent.

However, you can nourish your illusions by more insulting posts if you wish but I will not dignify them with a response,

[Moses]

===This is a temporary decrease that is part of a general trend of rising prices.===

This is very brave conclusion. Totally wrong, stupid, since it never had base in real practice and science, but very brave. If you will proof it - you may get Nobel prize.


That is why, for example, there can be headlines like "Russia seen holding rates at 7.5% until year-end as inflation remains elevated" (https://www.reuters.com/markets/euro...ed-2022-09-30/), and why, in September 2022, the inflation rate in Russia reached 13.7 percent relative to the corresponding period of the previous year.

Again stupid question. Why you going to dispute while you know nothing about Russia and Russian economic? Do you think 7,5% is something bad? It is rate for to make unprofitable currency speculations with Russian ruble on local stock exchange. Than more volatile became currency market, then more high Central bank makes keyrate - for to press speculations down.

Please take a look on historical records about keyrates of Central Bank in Russia:

12823

[Moses]

SHOT IN THE FOOT?

LONDON, Oct 21 (Reuters) - Russia can access enough tankers to ship most of its oil beyond the reach of a new G7 price cap, industry players and a U.S. official told Reuters, underscoring the limits of the most ambitious plan yet to curb Moscow's wartime revenue.

Bank JP Morgan sees the impact of the price cap as muted, with Russia almost completely skirting the ban by marshalling Chinese, Indian and its own ships - whose average age is nearly two decades old - relatively ancient by shipping standards.

The G7 price cap plan agreed in September was shopped by the United States to industry players as a safety valve to total EU bans on Russian shipments ratified in June.

That may have boomeranged back on the sanctioning countries by sending energy prices soaring amid an already deep cost of living crisis as a potential global recession looms.

Daniel Ahn, a former chief economist at the U.S. State Department, says the countries sanctioning Russia overestimated their control of the global oil trade... "All it's going to do is reroute oil ... and make life difficult for everyone else, which is what is happening right now anyway," said Ahn "It's going to be less damaging than a complete seaborne import ban. They shot themselves in the foot, but they're now kind of trying to bandage it a bit."

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/russia-poised-largely-skirt-new-g7-oil-price-cap-2022-10-21/

[cdnmatt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8evOr_1ACjo

[cdnmatt]

And Russia keeps getting pushed back. Major retreat announced today. Don't feel like looking up the proper spelling of the name and don't want to butcher it, but I'm sure you all know what major city I'm talking about.

[Moses]

And Russia keeps getting pushed back. Major retreat announced today. Don't feel like looking up the proper spelling of the name and don't want to butcher it, but I'm sure you all know what major city I'm talking about.

Who knows plans? Maybe it is retreat, or maybe it is just trick to collect as many as possible Ukrainian military in one place on the south and make fast move to Kiev from North, where is just around 100km from the border. Name of city is Kherson.

Kherson district is divided by Dnepr river on two parts: right by flow of Dnepr river, it is left on the map, western, and left by flow of Dnepr river eastern), it is right on the map. Historically eastern part was part of Russian Imperia since about 16th century and had name MaloRossia (in translation Small Russia) with border by Dnepr river from south (Black sea) till Belorussia (see black line on the map)

Now Russia keeps eastern bank and retreats from western (see red line on the map).

12833

[cdnmatt]

Who knows plans? Maybe it is retreat, or maybe it is just trick to collect as many as possible Ukrainian military in one place on the south and make fast move to Kiev from North

Yep, maybe. Or maybe disease ridden criminals and mobilized conscripts with little training and equipment don't make the greatest fighting force in the world.

[Moses]

Yep, maybe. Or maybe disease ridden criminals and mobilized conscripts with little training and equipment don't make the greatest fighting force in the world.

Mobilized conscripts aren't in fights: they are used as peacekeepers on acquired territories. That why they were need - to free regular army from such job. Also that why here in news we have only 2-3 messages per week about deaths of mobilized (I mean all news channels, not only state TV, but also channels in Telegram and other medias including medias of opposition).

[Dodger]

The Motley Crew that Putin's assembled to represent his Military Force has retreated from Kherson (and other towns) for one reason and one reason only - and that's to avoid having his ill-trained forces overwhelmed and slaughtered.

It's hard to imagine this major retreat being a "trick", because if it was, Zelinsky and his commanders have been reading about it in the news for weeks. What kind of "trick" is that? To even suggest this is almost laughable.

[cdnmatt]

There's reports out that the Russian infantry currentry comprises of three lines. First line is the criminals they grabbed out of pison, second is the mobilized conscripts, and third is the actual Russian military.

The third line's job is to shoot anyone in the front two lines who tries to run and retreat.

[Dodger]

The third line's job is to shoot anyone in the front two lines who tries to run and retreat.

The first line of convicts are now free to rape and pillage to their hearts-content - the second line of conscripts have been spotted riding stolen bicycles around the countryside pretending to be Ukrainians (who can blame them) - and the third line, who immediately ran out of bullets shooting at the first two lines, are now blaming their Commanders who scurried back to Russia disguised as women wearing babushkas on day one of the battle.

Magnificent display.

I wonder if Putin has any more "tricks" like this up his sleeve?

[cdnmatt]

The first line of convicts are now free to rape and pillage to their hearts-content - the second line of conscripts have been spotted riding stolen bicycles around the countryside pretending to be Ukrainians (who can blame them) - and the third line, who immediately ran out of bullets shooting at the first two lines, are now blaming their Commanders who scurried back to Russia disguised as women wearing babushkas on day one of the battle.

Magnificent display.

I wonder if Putin has any more "tricks" like this up his sleeve?

My worry is that Putin already knows he's lost. He will never admit defeat though, because he's a strong Russian who thinks he's better than everyone else, same as Moses here.

My worry is if he's going to use WMD, whether it's nuclear, chemical or biological, it's probably going to be in the very near future. Lots of news reports saying the Russian retreat is a ploy. I don't know.... I just hope I don't wake up done day to news that after luring all the Ukrainian soldiers into that city, Russia went and wiped them out with a nuke.

That's what I fear at the moment, and I wouldn't put it past Putin.

[Moses]

Guys, you are funny dreamers.

Just take a look on the map of Ukraine. It is divided by Dnepr river from north border till south border on the Black sea. On territory of Ukraine river is 500-1200 meters wide. And there is just a little bit more than 20 bridges over Dnepr, 5 of which are in Kiev. All Ukrainian warehouses are on right bank, while all fights are on left bank.

By humanitarian reasons Russia kept bridges alive. But at any moment Russia may change it. Right after it whole Ukrainian army will be cutted from western supply chains, from ammunition, fuel, new conscripts, from everything. There is also no functional airports or airfields anymore on left bank.

https://sawatdeenetwork.com/v4/attachment.php?attachmentid=12833&d=1668084564

[cdnmatt]

Moses, when this war initially began, Russian soldiers rocked up on the outskirts of Kiev with uniforms in their backpacks, awaiting their celebratory party of "liberating" Kiev.

That quite obviously didn't pan out, so not sure what else there is to say. You can keep dreaming all you want, but I promise, the West is just going to continue doing it's thing until Russia runs dry.

And remember, NATO has yet to actually enter this war.

[Moses]

Moses, when this war initially began, Russian soldiers rocked up on the outskirts of Kiev with uniforms in their backpacks, awaiting their celebratory party of "liberating" Kiev.

That quite obviously didn't pan out, so not sure what else there is to say. You can keep dreaming all you want, but I promise, the West is just going to continue doing it's thing until Russia runs dry.

And remember, NATO has yet to actually enter this war.

NATO will not.

As per "liberating Kiev", that "jump" had another reason. You already saw: at the begin Russia never entered any big city. There was chance what Ukrainian military will make coup and will kick out govt of Zelenskiy. When Russia saw what army will not make coup - they withdrew military parts from Kiev region.

[cdnmatt]

NATO will not.

As per "liberating Kiev", that "jump" had another reason. You already saw: at the begin Russia never entered any big city. There was chance what Ukrainian military will make coup and will kick out govt of Zelenskiy. When Russia saw what army will not make coup - they withdrew military parts from Kiev region.


Are you delusional? Do you not remember the battles in northern Kiev, or something?

That 60km long armored column wasn't just there hanging out waiting for a coup. They were trying to invade Kiev, got their asses handed to them, then decided to retreat and concentrate on the east. Do you have a selective memory, or what's going on?

At what point do you wake up, and realize this war simply isn't worth it for the Russian people?

Oh, and the EU and NATO have already publicly stated, if Russia decides to use WMD of any kind (nuclear, chemical, biological), they will go in and the Russian military will be obliterated within days.

[cdnmatt]

I don't know what you're seeing in Russia Moses, but here's the type of thing we're seeing in the West:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peVTNYXK3AY

[Moses]

Are you delusional? Do you not remember the battles in northern Kiev, or something?

That 60km long armored column wasn't just there hanging out waiting for a coup. They were trying to invade Kiev, got their asses handed to them, then decided to retreat and concentrate on the east. Do you have a selective memory, or what's going on?

At what point do you wake up, and realize this war simply isn't worth it for the Russian people?

Oh, and the EU and NATO have already publicly stated, if Russia decides to use WMD of any kind (nuclear, chemical, biological), they will go in and the Russian military will be obliterated within days.

Battle for Kiev??? In one month in whole Kiev region (population around 3 mln) were killed about 200 persons 60 of them are civilians. Are you sure what you are talking about? "Battle"??? You make me laugh.

Russian army arrived to Kiev's suburban and were waiting for signs of coup for to support it. In one month they retired back, since coup failed or even never started.

[cdnmatt]

Battle for Kiev??? In one month in whole Kiev region (population around 3 mln) were killed about 200 persons 60 of them are civilians. Are you sure what you are talking about? "Battle"??? You make me laugh.

Russian army arrived to Kiev's suburban and were waiting for signs of coup for to support it. In one month they retired back, since coup failed or even never started.


Again, are you delusional or something? Then what was Bucha (sP) about? Just a "whoops", or what?

You don't remember the constant dron attacks and artillery shelling?

[Dodger]

That's what I fear at the moment, and I wouldn't put it past Putin.

U.S. and NATO forces have been tracking every single nut and bolt in Putin's nuclear arsenal like hawks - and as much as a millimeter of movement of any nuclear hardware could potentially result in catastrophic consequences for Putin - and he knows it!

Putin is a master at ALWAYS PROTECTING HIMSELF. He remains un-flinched even as tens of thousands of lives are lost, including the lives of his own citizens who he carelessly casts to the winds of war knowing full-well that with their lack of training, supplies, leadership, etc., they will probably end up dead. All this, and he still remains un-flinched. BUT, one thing you will never see him do is put his own life in danger. And the threat of U.S./NATO nuclear retaliation would do exactly that.

Putin only has himself to blame for showcasing the actual strength of the Russian Military on the World Stage, especially at a time when there's so much global unrest. All this did of course is result in the knowledge that everyone now shares (all Country's) that his military force is totally incapable of invading and conquering any country - with questionable abilities to even protect his own borders if it came down to that. It would have been much better for the people of Russia if Putin didn't put these deficiencies on display. Hell, even China and India are kicking dust in his face.

What will never cease to amaze me is why the Russian people haven't already dealt with him? What more are they willing to lose?

[cdnmatt]

What will never cease to amaze me is why the Russian people haven't already dealt with him? What more are they willing to lose?

That's what amazes me too. For example, just look at Moses in this thread. He's still adamant that everything is going according to plan, and Russia is still some super power to be afraid of. All the while, his fellow country men are being sent to the slaughter.

I just don't get it.

[Moses]

Mr. Biden- Alzheimer again got his minute of fame. He said "thank you" for hosting of meeting to PM of Colombia while participating in ASEAN meeting in Cambodia.


I want to thank the Prime Minister of Colombia for his leadership as ASEAN chair and for hosting all of us

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/us-president-biden-slips-up-name-asean-summit-host-cambodia-2022-11-12/

Does he ever understand what's going around him and where he is?

[cdnmatt]

Mr. Biden- Alzheimer again got his minute of fame. He said "thank you" for hosting of meeting to PM of Colombia while participating in ASEAN meeting in Cambodia.



https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/us-president-biden-slips-up-name-asean-summit-host-cambodia-2022-11-12/

Does he ever understand what's going around him and where he is?


At least he's not in the news every day threatening the world with nuclear armageddon.

[Dodger]

He said "thank you" for hosting of meeting to PM of Colombia while participating in ASEAN meeting in Cambodia.

What would really be funny is if he referred to Xi Jinping as Kim Jun-Un at the upcoming G-20 Summit.

[latintopxxx]

moses dont worry about dementia joe...its krazy kamala im worried about....

[Andy]

What will never cease to amaze me is why the Russian people haven't already dealt with him? What more are they willing to lose?

Historically, political changes in our country are determined by the elites, not the masses. Only the extreme discontent of the elites will lead to a change of power. Ordinary people in Russia have never influenced anything. Unfortunately, the wrong mentality. There is neither democracy nor a desire for civil society in our genes. "Every power is from God..." To endure and suffer, to wait and hope for the best. Even after the bloody uprising of 1905, when tens of thousands of people took to the streets and thousands died, the former regime retained power for another 12 years. And it was replaced by an even bloodier one. Nothing good has ever happened in this territory. It looks like a cursed place.

[cdnmatt]

moses dont worry about dementia joe...its krazy kamala im worried about....

Oh, I have to hear this shit. Why exactly are you worried about kamala harris?

She sounds awesome to me, so I'm curious about what horrible things you have to say about her.

[cdnmatt]

And now Russia is firing missiles into Poland.

More than likely I'm guessing Russia just ran out of precision guided missiles, and it was a mistake. I can't possibly believe they fired missiles into Poland on purpose. Nonetheless, can't just have Russia lobbing missiles around Europe willy nilly here.

Let's see what happens, and what Poland's and NATO's response will be.

[Moses]

And now Russia is firing missiles into Poland.

More than likely I'm guessing Russia just ran out of precision guided missiles, and it was a mistake. I can't possibly believe they fired missiles into Poland on purpose. Nonetheless, can't just have Russia lobbing missiles around Europe willy nilly here.

Let's see what happens, and what Poland's and NATO's response will be.

Nobody officially said what it is Russia fired missiles what fell in Poland. Only "made in Russia". Ukrainian military uses also "made in Russia" C-300.

Response will be "deeply worry". Because Poland demands 1.3 trln euro of reparations from Germany and now Germany not in mode to listen hysteria from Poland.

"More likely" it was Ukrainian antimissile what missed Russian missile and fell to Poland, because your version about deficit of high precision guided missiles is too weak: Zelenskiy reported today 85 hits and one only fatality case besides "case in Poland".

[cdnmatt]

Well, of course you're going to think it was Ukraine's fault, because as far as you're concerned, Russia can do no wrong.

[Moses]

Well, of course you're going to think it was Ukraine's fault, because as far as you're concerned, Russia can do no wrong.

Matt, this village in Poland is located 8 km from the border. Do you really think what Russia may miss target at least 10 km far? Even Hitler's FAU in 1944 was more precise.

I see only 2 real versions:
- Ukrainian antimissile what missed Russian missile and ended flight in Poland
- Russian missile what was kicked by Ukrainian antimissile and fell in Poland, but this is less possible - after hit missile usually falling apart and fall down more fast and doesn't fly 10 km.

Do you see? I even not offer version what it was Ukrainian provocation to fire to Poland at time of Russian attack.

[cdnmatt]

No, I think the logical and rational thing. Russia is running out of precision guided missiles.

Hell, Russia went and fired off over 100 missiles into Ukraine today. Good hunch that those two missiles that hit Poland were Russian. Hell, Russia has proven itself so inept it can't even feed its own soldiers, so some dude getting the coordinates of a missile strike wrong isn't exactly unexpected.

[Moses]

===Russia went and fired off over 100 missiles into Ukraine today===

85 Matt, 85


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDCeVYlmQow

===Russia is running out of precision guided missiles=== With less precision missiles there will be much more causalities in Ukraine than 1 per 85 hits.

[cdnmatt]

From reports I'm seeing, crater was too big for it to be an air defense missile. Most likely at least a 400kg war head (ie. Russian cruise missile).

[Moses]

From reports I'm seeing, crater was too big for it to be an air defense missile. Most likely at least a 400kg war head (ie. Russian cruise missile).


Poland missile ‘unlikely’ to have been fired from Russia, Biden says
US president says trajectory of missile suggests it was not launched by Russian forces waging war in Ukraine but will await results of investigation

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/nov/16/poland-missile-unlikely-to-have-been-fired-from-russia-biden-says

AP: Three U.S. officials said preliminary assessments suggested the missile was fired by Ukrainian forces at an incoming Russian one amid the crushing salvo against Ukraine’s electrical infrastructure Tuesday. (https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-zelenskyy-kherson-9202c032cf3a5c22761ee71b52ff9d52)

Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/biden-said-ukraine-air-defence-missile-responsible-poland-blast-nato-source-2022-11-16/): Biden said Ukraine air defence missile responsible for Poland blast - NATO source

[Andaman!]

From reports I'm seeing, crater was too big for it to be an air defense missile. Most likely at least a 400kg war head (ie. Russian cruise missile).
I thought you couldn’t see because you were blind. Has your vision been miraculously restored?

[cdnmatt]

I thought you couldn’t see because you were blind. Has your vision been miraculously restored?


No, there's this really cool thing about going blind. Your ears still happen to work just fine.

Are we really going down this path again?

[Andaman!]

No, there's this really cool thing about going blind. Your ears still happen to work just fine.

Are we really going down this path again?

In which case you could have said “From reports I’m hearing, crater was too big for it to be an air defence missile”

[cdnmatt]

So Moses, is this cool with you? In order to get rid of all the Nazis, just freeze 41 million people to death, including women and children?

Cool with you?

[Moses]

So Moses, is this cool with you? In order to get rid of all the Nazis, just freeze 41 million people to death, including women and children?

Cool with you?

It is Zelenskiy's and Western choice. I wrote warns about coming winter half of year ago. Ukraine has possibility to stop it - just agree to peace talk. Instead of it Zelenskiy issued and signed presidential order what forbids peace talks with Russia. Well - it is Ukrainian choice. Why Russia (or me) should worry about Ukrainians more than their own government and president?

Powerplants are legal military targets by Hague convention.

I wrote warns what end is unavoidable. 145:25. Do you remember your answers?
It is your fault - your support of Nazi regime made current situation possible.

P.S. There is no 41 million long time already. People started to run from country as soon, as Nazi came to power in 2014, after coup. Before 2022 there was 2.5 Ukrainian migrants from Ukraine in Russia. Before 2022 there was about 3 millions of Ukrainian migrants in Poland. To the start of war there was about 25 millions of Ukrainian citizens in Ukraine. I think number is about 20-22 millions now, of which about 5-6 millions are living on joined to Russia territories.

P.P.S. Matt, where you was 8 years when Ukraine shelled and bombed East of Ukraine? Where you was when 7 winters they "just freeze millions of people including women and children"? Where you was when in 2014 Ukrainian nationalists cutted electricity and water supply of Crimea?