Relationships with Thai Guys

I just read My Name Lon, You Like Me? which is a tell all from a Thai girl whore.
It is a real eye opener, even for someone like me who has met more than my fair share of Thais who treat me as a walking ATM.
The question I have is about the Thai's family.
In the book My Name Lon, it is made clear that Thai women are usually exploited much more than the Thai men to bring in money to their families, and that for a Thai girl whore marrying a farang is like winning the lottery for such wonderful families.

We have all seen the straight farang being sucked dry by Thai women and their families.
My question is, is such total devotion to becoming an income stream for a troupe of parasites usually expected also when in a committed relationship with a Thai male? Or are such (in my opinion) scam relationships much less common because of the different roles of men versus women in Thai society?

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You take on a relationship with a Thai, you don't fit into the Thai social hierarchy (since you're not a Thai) - there's only one role left which is an acknowledged position - you're the Big Man, the patron. Since many if not most Thai gay boys are "in the closet" you'll be represented as an eccentric foreigner who has adopted him. It's happened to me and many friends, over and over. So yes, it's the buffalo, fertlizer for the rice crop, mother's hospital bills, new motorcycle, schools bill for young brother (or sister) - you name it, you're it

Yes, of course ... but.
I expected more flames from this post, so good so far, so good.
To clarlify, I am talking about the most common type of farang Thai gay relationship we see in Thailand.
Older farang, younger Thai, some history of a commercial element.
Remember, even you if you met him and he was working as a waiter in a resto or whatever, doesn't mean there isn't a commercial aspect. In my experience, some of the more sophisticated manipulators do not work in traditional money boy roles.

I do recommend people read My Name Lon, You Like Me. It is about a girl, but it is written from the voice of an incredibly devious Thai female whore. She reveals all her secrets on how she sucks farangs dry and how stupid and naive many farangs are. Anyone who knows Thailand knows such people exist, and are even common in the commercial sex scene.

How can we as gay men who are seeking relationships, and do understand there is going to be some level of financial support for a younger Thai man, avoid being victimized?

I can say no quite well.
However, do you really actually truly believe it is that SIMPLE?
Because I don't.
Most of us have hearts and when we start to feel love for someone, it is quite easy to become vulnerable to this kind of thing, out of fear of losing what feels like a real relationship.
Of course, I do realize there is no pat answer for this, and each relationship is diferent, but I thought it might make an interesting discussion. Perhaps some others have something to contribute other than a reductionistic dismissal.
I believe this is a real issue for a lot us, maybe we can help each other.

How can we as gay men who are seeking relationships, and do understand there is going to be some level of financial support for a younger Thai man, avoid being victimized?

If a question can be an oxymoron this is certainly it--But here goes.
What kind of relationship do you have when it's at home? You are sending money; what are you getting for your money: nothing--unless you count the spoken (or implied?) promise that he will be waiting faithfully when you return; which he may be...providing nothing better has turned up in the meantime. That understood; who is victimizing whom? Is it possible 'you' is victimizing you? In your latest reply, you say, "Feels like a real relationship."

A Fractured Fable.
I've been envolved with 'a younger Thai man' for eight years--But not the same Thai man.
There was a bio-pic of Marilyn Monroe titled, This Year's Blond. In this case think, This Year's Thai..
When I go home, my money goes home--And there it stays until I return. There's an old addage: 'Why keep a cow when you can buy milk?' take that one step further: Why keep a cow when someone else is buying--And getting--the milk? Some butterflies may actually find a flower they want to share all their honey...pollen..whatever, with but at the end of the season this special breed: butterflyus farangus must fly home to hybernate--And the cycle repeats: the (Thai) flower becomes a butterfly, attracts other, honey laden, butterflies and may become a flower again, with one special, honey laden, butterfly, for some length of time: until the cycle starts yet again.
Hard hearted? Why? I've been nice & polite. I've left each flower with enough honey to sustain it until I come fluttering back; that none have done so is their problem. Many flowers may choose to be grasshoppers, fiddling the honey away while the sun shines; until 'winter' sets in: when the honey's all gone and it's time to fluff up those drooping petals, Petal, and get out and cross-pollenate. BTW: One lasted, on these terms, thru three seasons, another for two--But you'll never know unless you are willing to risk it. See, however, previous paragraph re. flower attracting another butterfly--And be prepared.
Well, as we are so often admonished; the honey they collect is their honey (to invest or squander as they choose.)--But there are two sides to that coin: my honey--That which is left in my 'hive' \ bank, back home, is mine...to invest or squander as I choose--And I choose to store it up so I may squander it on the next blossom in the garden...The Garden of Earthly Delights.
How you waste yours is certainly up to you but my advice: spend it where you get the most bang (Pun intended.) for your buck. When the bucks are going out and no bangs are coming in?...Well, that's a real waste! It's time to stop bucking...until banging season rolls around again.
Yet, I know it s'truth: "Though it's a long long time from May to December; the days grow short when you reach September...." Don't look now--But it's December.

I have no real problem with the cynic who has his heart heavily shielded, and a great big padlock on his wallet. In some ways I envy you, just at the moment I am feeling very vulnerable and wondering why I am taking the risk of falling in love with a Thai man `19 years younger than me....

For over seven years, about nine trips to LoS, I have managed (with the help of my very cynical/realistic friends) to be a total butterfly, having a great deal of honey for my money.

October 2004 I met my boyfriend..........now my heart is definitely ruling my head, but I am happy, if a little concerned about how things will work out.

I am so lucky to have good friends, many of whom know the world of Thailand very well, and understand how the rules of the game are played. They all think I have gone completely mad, but while they tell me exactly what they think, they also support me and I know they will still be there whatever happens, to pick me up if it all comes crashing down about my ears, or buy new hats for the wedding!

Of course the financial dependence is a real issue. I do not think I would commit to long-term financial support while we continue to live so far apart. I do not think I could bear too much longer of the constant fear that he will find someone younger, richer and better looking than me.

For me the only real hope lies in bringing him to live with me. And a key part of that plan is to ensure that he becomes independent of me (as far as possible) as soon as possible. So I pay for the English course, but he works part-time to earn his own pocket money, while I pay all the bills, fees, travel costs etc. And I support him while he gains real qualifications and establishes himself in a real job.

I am taking the risk, allowing myself to fall in love, but the risks are high (is it not always a huge risk to let someone in to your heart? Let them get so close that they could realy hurt you if they chose?). The choice is mine, and whatever happens I will not die of it.

Wish me luck? Good luck to all of you! I am off to Thailand on 1st January for two weeks with my man!

How many Thais do you see upset that they have or will be dumped by his farang ? They expect only the day from you. They have little expectation for a good tomorrow. And we, on the other hand, want this good thing to last forever. Fall in love and live happily ever after.
They can walk away from you with few regrets or feeling of great loss, where on the other hand we feel our life has come close to end.
Live for the day the same as they do and we should be happier. Easily said than done of course. Unless your brought up Thai.

A very good motto, life is short, especially for us farangs progressing beyond middle-age.
Goodlad, I am surprised by your post, would it be true to say that you have been hurt yourself? Did you try not to display your hurt in public? I am sure that Thai men also have feelings, and we have heard of some trying to kill themselves, I think they are human too!

Even for those who have only been around on the commercial Thai scene for a short time (forgive the pun) they have quickly learned that these ageing farang will promise the earth while they are on their holiday, a long way from the reality of their daily life, struggling to succeed at work, pay the mortgage and the bills. Once most of us go home, the holiday becomes a set of pleasant memories, and the suitcase goes back in the cupboard.

For young gay Thai men who have poor families and only limited prospects in their country, to have found a patron/lover and then be rejected by them must be devastating. The power of youth and beauty will fade in time, money and security endure far longer. We all fear being taken advantage of. There are many stories of Thai boyfriends who have a girlfriend on the side, or even a Thai boyfriend, as well as the pet farang. I think it is still rare for Thai to identify as gay in the way that we have in the west.

So it is a complex business, falling in love is always risky, but if you choose to fall for someone a great deal younger from a vastly different culture, then the risks increase exponentially. (I am beginning to frighten myself now!). I will try to minimise the risks, and I will give myself that chance at happiness. Remembering all the time that life on my own with my good job, decent home, and wonderful friends is not so bad.....

One man's, cynical, is another man's, realistic.

I agree 100%, Rich. I doubt I will ever relocate to Thailand; I'm never even sure if I'll return for a holiday; how unfair to lead some sweet num to think otherwise.

As for someone feeling, 'used.' I don't feel I am, or have been, used. Maybe I know how to pick `em; maybe I've just been lucky. I do the best I can by them and, so far, it's been worth every baht & every minute--Even Water-buffalo-story-angel-boy I fell for on my second trip--And my only venture into Remittance (Webster: To transmit or send money, esp. via long distance.) Boy Land. He made me laugh, damn it! I still look at his picture and smile. That alone is worth every baht, of someone's inheritance, I spent!

Nor do I believe they have felt used. I think--I go so far as to say, 'I'm sure'--they would be insulted if I were to suggest they were used. Last-season's num said, "I work bar, I go customer." A dose of cold reality too far? Well, you'd have to have been looking at him when he--All Butch-chewing-three-penny-nails--said it. Birds sang, bells rang, flowers bloomed, rainbows and stars fell--And I was kicked in the head by a butterfly one more time...how many times since first-season's num said, "It's my business."

When I was a little boy there was a late-night disc jockey who signed off saying, "If you must carry the torch, hold it high!"
Damn right!

[Dodger]

It seems that most of us agree that Thai boys commonly manipulate their older and wiser (?) farang counterparts for financial security - and that farangs manipulate their younger Thai mates to fuel their emotional needs, although the question still remainsтАжis a successful farang/Thai long term relationship really possible?

Like most others here, IтАЩve spent years witnessing farang/Thai interactions involving both frequent visitors and full time residents in LOS, and after time some basic trends start to become very apparent. One thing IтАЩve observed is that the boys view the vast majority of farangs simply as тАЬButterflyтАЩsтАЭ and do so based on a learned knowledge of our personalities and repetitious patterns. Trying to build a relationship in this type of environment is challenging to say the least, and thatтАЩs not even considering the vast range of cultural differences.

First, letтАЩs categorize ourselvesтАжAS THE BOYS SEE US:

The Committed Butterfly:
A farang who has sexual relationships with multiple partners who has absolutely no desire for a committed relationship.

Most Common Trait:
Tells the boys heтАЩs only in it for the sex and friendship and avoids any and all commitments beyond that point.

Percentage of Farangs in This Category:
25%

The Uncommitted Butterfly:
A farang who has sexual relationships with multiple partners, who is open to a possible relationship if and when he meets the right boy. He typically has a #1 boy on the shelf that he spends a lot of time with, but heтАЩs still just a fill-in amongst the other sexual flings.

Most Common Trait:
Tells the boys that he doesnтАЩt have a steady boyfriend, gets a little mushy at times and starts making commitments beyond his capability, typically when heтАЩs had too much to drink. Offs #8 with #12 is standing right next to him, when it was #12 that he was romancing the night before in his room. He may start providing a little financial support beyond the normal tipping process, but this is typically a token amount of money and ends in about one year.

Percentage of Farangs in This Category:
55%

The Deceitful Butterfly:
A farang who has sexual relationships with multiple partners who has absolutely no desire for a committed relationship, although, tells the boys that he does, with many going as far as to promise financial support in the future which rarely ever materializes. Falls in love with a different boy every visit and leaves a trail of hollow commitments in his path.

Most Common Trait:
A farang who has to do the run-dodge-jump routine every time heтАЩs near a gogoтАЩs or beer bar to avoid being spotted. Farangs who have made so many promises to so many boys in the past, that they start to blame it on the boys labeling them all as liars and con artists. Typically, a farang in this category is also highly cynical about the Thai culture (and sometimes life in general) and always views himself as the victim.

Percentage of Farangs in This Category:
15%

The Fully Transitioned Butterfly:
The farang who falls in love with a boy and commits himself unconditionally to supporting his welfare, and that of the boys family if needed, and does so.

Most Common Trait:
A farang who no longer frequents the working boy scene, nor does he permit his partner to, and focuses his life primarily on creating a new (enhanced) life for his partner. This farang, few as there are based on my observations, has the capacity to understand the Thai culture with a willingness to accept compromise as a cornerstone of his relationship. This farang understands the significance of helping his partnerтАЩs family and fully accepts this role to make the relationship work.

Percentage of Farangs in This Category:
<5%

END OF CATEGORIES

We can play with the percentages all we want, but the main point (IMO) is that over 95% of the farangs who visit LOS either donтАЩt want a LTR, say they do but fail with their commitments in the long term (>2 years), or just flat out lie about it.

WhatтАЩs really interesting (here I go throwing my darts again) is that that well over 50% of the visiting farangs provide some type of financial support to their boy of the year, although, only send a token amount - not adding up to more than U.S. $200-300/year. This is certainly not enough to support the boy, let alone his family, and by no means serves to solidify any type of commitment on the boys behalf. Based on the Thai boys understanding of farangs, the boy would have to be crazy to view this token donation as anything more than just what it isтАжa few bucks to keep you on the line until my next return. Nothing more, nothing less.




One critical component that seems to be very significant to the ThaiтАЩs, even more than in the west, is TIME. Remembering, that most Thai boys, regardless of they are working (actively) on the sex circuit, or not, view the actions of 95% of all farangs as being hollow in terms of any real long term aspirations, and the magic number seems to be somewhere around 3 years.

I know in my own relationship that nothing I could have said or done would have changed the way he really feels inside regarding our future together, until I had stuck by his side for that long of a duration. Of course, he had already witnessed me floating between the various Butterfly categories as described earlier, and had (and possibly still has) every reason to doubt my real intentions.

Last year, the two of us were heading into the condo and a motor bike boy said something to him in Thai. My BF smiled and the two of them exchanged a few comments as we continued walking toward the entrance (and no, it wasnтАЩt THAT motorbike boy). Once in the elevator, he turned to me with a serious expression and a twinkle in his eye and told me that the boy wanted to know how long weтАЩve been together. Apparently, when he informed the boy that weтАЩve been together for a little over 3 years now, the boy was very impressed.

Most farang/Thai relationships never stretch out beyond the farangs holiday period, some last a year or so, which equates to few return visits by the farang, with the vast majority of relationships coming to a dead halt around the two year mark.

Regardless of how honest and sincere a farang looks or sounds, regardless of the tears flowing from his eyes, regardless of the gifts he lays at his lovers feetтАжin the Thai boys eyes heтАЩs simply lying and cannot be trusted. ThatтАЩs the reality of how the survival game is played in LOS, and they learned it from usтАжWE ARE A 95% FAILURE RATE!!!

IтАЩve spent years weighing out the advantages and disadvantages of remaining a butterfly. The fun of the chase (as if there is a chase in LOS), having different sexual partners to match the mood on any given night (or day), being free to have a fling with anyone I want at the drop of a coin (almost literally) with absolutely no commitment or strings attached. Then on the other hand thereтАЩs Boy Special. A guy who is moody, ice cold in bed unless all the stars in the universe are perfectly aligned, wakes up in the morning in a bitchy coma state until heтАЩs had at least a 2 hour dose of those fucking Thai cartoons, who hates Italian pizza and bitches about me snoring so muchтАж.hard choice right??? Yes, ironically, itтАЩs a very hard choice.

I love HIM like IтАЩve never loved anyone in my lifetime, and one of the problems isтАжhe knows it. I know he knows it and he knows that I know that he knows itтАжugh! He didnтАЩt at first, at least I donтАЩt think he did, but right around the 3 year anniversary in our relationship things started to change, and change for the better. His understanding (over TIME) of my feelings towards him has finally started to cement our relationship together. Nothings perfect. We still fight and argue and run off once in a while to get out of each others hair, but I really believe that he can finally see the truth in me, and me in him, and nothing but TIME could have accomplished that.

I try to measure the success (or failure) of our relationship using a few simple metrics, e.g., heтАЩs starting to show a real interest in learning more about me and my family, my upbringing, my work at home, my hobbies, etc. He started introducing me to his real friends away from the working circuit and finally shows an interest in having me meet his family members in his home town of Udorn Thani. He also, gradually over time, has showed a higher interest in hanging around with me in the day time, versus, dashing off to be with his friends, and last, but not least, he looks in my eyes when IтАЩm speaking to him, versus, going into that trance with his eyes glued to the wallтАжLOL

IтАЩm still a Butterfly in his eyes, as we all are, but finally TIME is on our side.

Mai pen rai