VAT & Tipping on bar and restaurant bills

[christianpfc]

VAT on bar and restaurant bills

In September I went to a bar in Silom Soi 4 with a friend and was suprised to find 10% service charge and 7% VAT added to the bill. Now a restaurant bill from September fell into my hands and I was surprised to find 10% service charge and 7% VAT (when I paid, I only paid notice to the service charge).

I know that some venues add 10% service charge (and I go there only one time), but adding VAT is new to me.

Is there no law that all prices have to be net? Does this occur in other places as well?

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[gaymandenmark]

Yes it occurs in other places, but I have never seen it in a bar and not in Soi 4. What is the name of the bar?

I have only seen it in restaurants and although I don't like the added 7% VAT, I don't have problems with the service charge if it is openly and cleary written in the menu.

[Neal]

The restaurant bill of 10% service is for those who are cheap and don't leave tips and VAT is required to be charged in restaurants but I never heard of vat at a bar only. Yes, what is the name of the bar?

[joe552]

The restaurant bill of 10% service is for those who are cheap and don't leave tips

How can a restaurant know whether you will or will not leave a tip when they present a bill? Sorry, DaBoss, you're mistaken on this one.

[Neal]

No Joe, I am not. There are a good many people that leave 10 and 20 baht tips and just feel that is satisfactory as well as some that leave nothing. The 10% service charge is to insure that the service staff gets reasonable tips. Surely if you would like to leave more so that it equals 15% or 20% you can but 10% is pretty much a minimum acceptable tip in most restaurants.

And if you think I or anyone else is wrong, rather than saying we are wrong, how about explaining why you think a person is wrong AND what you believe is correct?

[Yraen]

Whoa ! This discussion revolves around the assumption that the whole world follows the US-ian practice of manditorily leaving tips for the waiting-staff. In the US, this practice occurs because wait-staff do not get an adequate wage and have to make up the difference through their tips. It is also the reason why (mostly) US wait-staff pay close attention to their customers. (Though I refused one guy in Hawaii because he was rude, arrogant, useless and much more interested in looking down the blouse of his fellow waitress.)

Most of the world works on the basis that a tip is given to a waiter who provides good service. And it is normally given to THAT waiter NOT "the waiters". (If tips are 'pooled', the lazy or inefficient waiters gain from the efforts of the 'good' waiters. I ask whether that is a 'fair' result?) It also removes from the business owner to the customer the need to enhance an inadequate wage (or perhaps provide an 'excuse' to further minimise wages).

IMO, any establishment charging a "service fee", regardless of the standard of service, is likely to finish up with no tips at all. Because that is what a "service fee" is - it is a levied tip, regardless of standard of service. It is also likely that the service staff will tend to go slack because they know they will get a tip whether they work for it or not. (In the case of a now-defunct restaurant in Bangkok, the staff got to the point where chatting among themselves was a much higher priority.)

In Australia, good service = tip, no service = no tip. Simple and no argument. By law, wages must be adequate.
In Thailand, I recognise that (generally) wages are inadequate (the new minimum wage being ignored by most employers) and I do give tips to service personnel who have given adequate-to-good service (in whatever form )

Again, IMO, the onus is on the employer to train service staff on how to provide attentive/good service and the standard of service the owner expects in his/her business. This will usually ensure a constant flow of tips. BUT, the moment an owner gets lazy or greedy and levies a service charge then I have no obligation to pay any tip. Nor do I need to go back to that business if I disagree with the owner's decision. :blackeye:

[gaymandenmark]

Wow we have had this diskussions many times.
What you are used to tip or not to tip in one country, has nothing to do what the custom is in another country.
The labour laws and agreements are different, in some places tips is not a part of the agreed salary, and in other placed the tip is a part of the salary but also an importent part of the paycheck.

It is quite easy to find out, reading some guidebooks, dont you do that when travelling to another country?

If you dont understand that there is a difference in tipping in different countries, I find that your are a big ignorant.

Well, assuming I'm satisfied, I tip at least 10% on the bill (more it the menu specifies a higher service charge) and then I tip the individual waiter on top - and I follow that worldwide.

I'm sorry if my practice upsets anybody but I prefer it to the suggestions of reading up on the minimum wage and labour laws in every country I visit and adjusting my tipping practices accordingly - I can't believe some people actually DO that.

:occasion9:

[dorayme]

Tipping seems to be more of a foreign convention. Most Thai don't seem to top and tipping from Thai does not seem to be expected. I also encountered a now-defunct restaurant in Bangkok that levied a service charge when service was poor (as well as the food). I think most but not all restaurants do distribute the service to the employees. If I get good service I always tip the waiter in his/her hand.

[firecat69]

I should be the one who decides what the tip is and I should make sure that the service person gets the tip. In Thailand many times the service charge goes to the establishment and not the waiter etc.

Most Thais are astounded at what Westerners tip and think we are nuts. That being said I always leave 10% for adequate service and more if the service was special. Depending on the level of the restaurant I easily go to 15% or more because there I usually encounter well trained wait staff and I am happy to tip them more.