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Thread: Boy Prostitutes & Karma

  1. #1
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    Boy Prostitutes & Karma

    My babblings on this topic are intentionally focused on тАЬboy prostitutesтАЭ, although the context of the topic and the points I am raising apply to both male and female genders.

    First, for the noviceтАжwhat is Karma?

    The teachings of Buddha are inherently engrained into the Thai culture, which are adhered to by most in order to keep their karma pure. The doctrine of karma maintains that each human act carries its own merit or demerit. The Thai people believe that during their lives, they are in the process of being born again. When they die, they will either be promoted to a higher karma, or, if their soul is impure, they will be punished and reincarnated to a lower form of life where they must learn to cleanse their karma.

    With every act they do, by helping someone, by showing gratefulness to their parents, they are making merit, or, in other words, they are performing actions which will purify their soul. If Thais do something which will bring dishonor or shame to themselves or their families, they will have made a "stain" on their karma and must therefore redeem themselves by performing good actions, thereby cleansing their karma once again.

    Some working boys (not all) seek to gain good karma by doing work which will help their families, not to escape them. The boys feel that by showing their gratefulness to their parents for what they have been given, they not only have an opportunity to alleviate financial pressures on their family, but also as a chance to make merit and gain karma. Temporary work in the sex industry may be seen as fate or karma, not a moral flaw in the boy himself, or it may be seen as work for his family that gains him karmic merit.

    Roughly speaking, we can say that there are two types of prostitutes: (1) those forced into prostitution by poverty or social deprivation and (2) those who choose to do it because they feel it is a convenient and easy way to make money. This first type of prostitute is called a harlot (vesiya) or a streetwalker (bandhak├г) in the Buddhist scriptures while the second type is called a courtesan (ganika or nagarasobhini). The intention of the first is probably just to survive and is therefore karmmically ( I just invented that word) far less negative than the second whose motive might be greed, laziness or lack of self-respect. The first is not willingly involved in wrong livelihood while the second clearly is. Having said that, both categories actually violate one of the key precepts of Buddhism which stresses the importance of тАЬright livelihoodтАЭ, although the Buddhists themselves rely on the lay people to make their own decisions regarding this and do not discriminate or look down on them - which would be the case in western culture.

    Sexuality is natural and sex for sale is an ancient profession, but, again, if you really look close, it is not hard to see that the lust that motivates such an industry has negative effects on both the workers and the customers. At the very least, participation in the sex industry is dependent for profit on lust and attachment, the very causes of suffering and dissatisfaction for people.

    My BF left home at age 15 and worked as a prostitute in Pattaya until age 20. He was still actively working during the first 2 years of our relationship and we have now been together for 7 years. During this 7 year period he has never shown any signs whatsoever of being ashamed or remorseful about his previous line of work, nor have I ever felt any reason for him to feel regretful or ashamed.
    If it were not for his unselfish contributions to his family they would still be living in a dilapidated rice storage bin and slaving all day in the rice fields just for enough baht to survive. Now they live in a real home with electricity, fresh water supply and a roof which actually stops the water from pouring in during the rains. They also went from slaving in the heat all day as pickers and sorters тАУ to managing their own small piece of farm land which is now maintained by hired workers. His respect and sense of obligation towards his family has remained relentless, even during this most difficult time of his life while he serves a prison sentence for drug possession.

    The majority of Thai working boys (or prostitutes) are no different than my BF Thep. They come from impoverished families, see prostitution as a means of making money to help their families survive and gain good karma, view the nature of their work simply as a set of required tasks, appreciate interacting with jai dee farang during their mission, and have an amazing amount of resilience when encountering customerтАЩs who lack good karma. They enter prostitution knowing that they are not being judged by their family... they know that they are taking the opportunity to make merit for their family and to purify their karma. And contrary to what many may believe, the families of the working boys know exactly what their work involves.

    ThereтАЩs no concept of sexual sin in Buddhism, so thereтАЩs no idea that being a sex worker is morally wrong. It may be or it may not be, depending upon the person. For some people, being a yoga teacher or therapist or DMV worker are absolutely the wrong occupations тАФ for them. WhatтАЩs better тАФ a really conscientious sex worker or a really lousy therapist? Which one has the greater potential to cause more harm? My opinion is that sex work takes a very deep toll on a person physically and psychologically. And therefore itтАЩs probably not the best line of work to get into if you want a stable life, but there is no sin involved and it certainly is not categorically forbidden within Thai Buddhist culture.

    I think itтАЩs fair to say that most of us have seen some working boys who are nothing more than liars, thieves and scoundrels, and unfortunately, they do exist, although it has been my experience that these are the exception and the majority of Thai working boys are as honest and substantial as the day is long and perform their work for the purposes as stated above. Farangs donтАЩt get angry with working boys because they are unhappy with the service they provided - they get angry because their emotional needs are not being fulfilled, which, in most cases, would be totally impossible for the boy to deliver on.

    A somewhat trivial tid-bit, but interesting (to me anyway), is the fact that the Thais themselves refer to those who work in the sex trade as being either working boys or working girls тАУ terms which were quickly adopted by us alien farang. The term тАЬprostituteтАЭ, along with all the negative connotations of the trade, are solely western inventions. If a boy works as a motorbike mechanic тАУ he is referred to as a boy who works as a motorbike mechanic. If the same boy quits his job and goes to work as a gogo dancer he is then referred to as a working boy, where the nature (or description) of his work remains transparent. The only time you will ever hear the term тАЬprostituteтАЭ is when it is coming from a farangs lips, and ironically, the only time you will hear negative connotations about the nature of their work it will be coming from the very same set of lipsтАжand thatтАЩs where bad karma comes from.

    Now, why doesnтАЩt someone start a topic on тАЬFarang Sex Addicts and Karma and see where that takes usтАж555.

    Mai pen rai


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    seenus (August 25th, 2020)

  3. #2
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    Re: Boy Prostitutes & Karma

    Dodger, that is possibly the best post i have read in 2010.

    :hello2:

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    Re: Boy Prostitutes & Karma

    Dodger, a very well considered and thought through post. Your explanation is an excellent primer for sex oriented visitors to Thailand.

    If I can add another point of view, in my opinion, what you say about the attitude to working boys and their profession is mostly correct. In much of Thailand, the negative connotations about the nature of this profession are either few or non-existent.

    But long time visitors and expats in Thailand shouldn't be lulled into a delusion that prostitution is entirely accepted in Thai society with no taboo altogether.

    There is some taboo and some negative connotations in prostitution. Less so in the poorer working class. More so in the wealthier middle and upper class society. But even where there are negative connotations existing, they aren't anywhere near as bad as they are in most Western societies.

    The other dynamic to consider is that a boy is more likely to become a working boy if they come from a family, community or background, which is fairly accepting of this work than one, which isn't.

    This isn't a criticism of who you choose to spend your time with. But if you spend most of your time around working boys and the poorer working class, you should keep yourself aware that not all Thais hold the same behaviours, habits, values and beliefs as the ones you are with. That would be like spending all your time around rednecks like Sarah Palin and George Bush and thinking all Americans are like them.

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    Re: Boy Prostitutes & Karma

    Another great post Dodger.amazing that Thep was a working boi at only 15 years.I wonder if it affected his attitude towards you in any way.Meaning that if he was raised in the West he might have anger and mistrust issues with you.
    But as you have described,him being from a poor family in a culture that is more accepting of prostitution,maybe he looks up to you as some sort of savior.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beachlover
    That would be like spending all your time around rednecks like Sarah Palin and George Bush and thinking all Americans are like them.
    Very true,It's a shame that people will judge a country based on their leaders and the actions they impose.Bush lost the popular vote to Gore.I can't help but think how much better America would be now if the man the people voted for would have become the leader.

  6. #5
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    Re: Boy Prostitutes & Karma

    So basically Dodger you disagree with this statement - "Prostitution, of course, is against the teachings of the Buddha"??

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    Re: Boy Prostitutes & Karma

    Quote Originally Posted by Curious
    So basically Dodger you disagree with this statement - "Prostitution, of course, is against the teachings of the Buddha"??
    Quite a sweeping generalization/interpretation of a farang from Phoenix.

    BG you old coot wherre have you BEEN?

    This one even drew in the pretend asian from "Australia".

    Nobody really cares.

  8. #7
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    Re: Boy Prostitutes & Karma

    It's a well written post Dodger, but might I ask what you have based your opinions on. I have found that older, educated Thais views on prostitution are quite different, and much on a par with other cultures around the world. There is very much of the "up to you" attitude in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that certain 'ways' are more acceptable here than in any other parts of the world. It just isn't discussed openly as much. I would agree though that sex workers do in some cases bring some hope to themselves and poorer families who might not have any other way of breaking away from their poverty trap.

    On a lighter note I do remember Chatchai, a former Prime Minister of Thailand on being asked by a foreign reporter what he thought about the reports being written about Thailand being a Sex Tourists Haven replied "Isn't it nice that everyone loves the Thais" By the way his nickname with the Thai's was 'Mr. No Problem!'

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    Re: Boy Prostitutes & Karma

    Another possible reason for the Thais' slightly more relaxed attitude towards sex workers is that Thai males are quite possibly the world champions when it comes to employing their services.

    Another reason is that up-country is now full of Thai women living in big houses with their farang husbands, having met them while working in a 'restaurant' in Bangkok. Hence many families are pragmatically less likely to be worried about their sons and daughters working in 'restaurants'.

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    Re: Boy Prostitutes & Karma

    Quote Originally Posted by combat

    On a lighter note I do remember Chatchai, a former Prime Minister of Thailand on being asked by a foreign reporter what he thought about the reports being written about Thailand being a Sex Tourists Haven replied "Isn't it nice that everyone loves the Thais" By the way his nickname with the Thai's was 'Mr. No Problem!'
    I think that the Prime Minister in question was much earlier and was the erudite and gay Kukrit Pramoj, and his response to the question about sex tourists coming to Thailand was, with a wry smile, "I am glad that the rest of the world find us so attractive!"

    Hard to think of Chatchai responding in this way.

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    Re: Boy Prostitutes & Karma

    Quote Originally Posted by Hmmm
    Another possible reason for the Thais' slightly more relaxed attitude towards sex workers is that Thai males are quite possibly the world champions when it comes to employing their services.
    True... sex industry catering to locals is huge.

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket
    Very true,It's a shame that people will judge a country based on their leaders and the actions they impose.Bush lost the popular vote to Gore.I can't help but think how much better America would be now if the man the people voted for would have become the leader.
    Exactly, not all Americans are like Bush and Palin... my point is not to judge all Thai people by characteristics and attitudes of the lower working class and "working boys" who they spend all their time with. Not all Thais have that attitude towards the sex industry. There is still some taboo about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by combat
    I have found that older, educated Thais views on prostitution are quite different, and much on a par with other cultures around the world. There is very much of the "up to you" attitude in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that certain 'ways' are more acceptable here than in any other parts of the world. It just isn't discussed openly as much.
    Totally agree. Not just older and educated Thais, but more educated Thais in general.

    Quote Originally Posted by combat
    On a lighter note I do remember Chatchai, a former Prime Minister of Thailand on being asked by a foreign reporter what he thought about the reports being written about Thailand being a Sex Tourists Haven replied "Isn't it nice that everyone loves the Thais" By the way his nickname with the Thai's was 'Mr. No Problem!'
    Heh... charming, that's such a Thai answer.

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