New BTS extension

The new BTS extension ("half-way to Pattaya" one of my friends muttered) opens this week - to Samut Prakarn https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/bts...ions-4-months/

You can get free rides for the first four months (if you can actually get on the BTS in the first place). I traveled the brief distance between Terminal 21 (Asoke) and The Loft, Central (Chidlom) last week in the middle of the day and it was hell. The BTS needs to add at least one more "set" of carriages and double the frequency to meet even the current demand

Then of course there are the fuckwits who amble along and stop so as to attend to the really important message they've just received on their mobile phone. One such paused in front of me just as we were about to go through the ticket barriers. I think she was quite surprised when I gave her a sharp prod in her back. Since traffic accident statistics are not widely reported I don't recall how many people have been in accidents crossing the road while checking out their so-called smartphone (not smart users though). Reportedly in some Western cities it's quite high

the bts has become a downright nightmare, and even in rush hour traffic, it is probably quicker to get a taxi. At asoke, it could easily take over 20 minutes just to get change for the vending machines, most of them still don't take paper money. Even the combined vending machines do not take paper money, whilst they finally take 2 baht coins !

In good fashion, they now even have separate entry/exit ports, right hand side for the new combined tickets (the ones that integrate MRT for the first time) and the old ones, leading to utter confusion. I am guessing and hoping this is just a temporary problem, but still boggles the mind why this was needed in the first place.

Yes longer cars and a higher frequency are desperately needed, but doubt they will deliver on this...

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Originally Posted by frequent

The BTS needs to add at least one more "set" of carriages and double the frequency to meet even the current demand

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they did announce, I think in 2016, that more carriages were on order and should be ready for live use in 2020, or was that 2022, but then their request for a fare increase was denied so the order may have been delayed

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Originally Posted by justaguy

it could easily take over 20 minutes just to get change for the vending machines

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that's what Rabbit cards are for, and link it to your LINEPay account and set it to auto-top from your LINEPay linked bank account or credit card and never think about it again, or if you want it you can check the SMS on each journey completion and a full history of travel and top-ups on LINEPay, plus you can also use it at many shops, you get Rabbit Rewards, travel discounts, LINEPay points, and free blow-jobs from station guards - or at least I think that's what it said, Google Translate isn't always that accurate!

even for a tourist the 1,2 or 3 day Rabbit cards can save a lot of time and frustration at the stations - you just need to judge card value v's personal value of saved time

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Originally Posted by justaguy

In good fashion, they now even have separate entry/exit ports, right hand side for the new combined tickets (the ones that integrate MRT for the first time)

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no the exit preferences are for Rabbit cards, from the last I have read the multi-system "Spider" card is still under development, the first version may now actually (or soon) be on limited trial on some buses, then next year will be extended to all Bangkok buses, ferries and MRT - as far as I am aware there has been no official announce about when BTS will join the scheme and Rabbit/LINEPay are unlike to just walk away but I don't see how they would fit in

bkkguy

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Originally Posted by bkkguy

they did announce, I think in 2016, that more carriages were on order and should be ready for live use in 2020, or was that 2022, but then their request for a fare increase was denied so the order may have been delayed



that's what Rabbit cards are for, and link it to your LINEPay account and set it to auto-top from your LINEPay linked bank account or credit card and never think about it again, or if you want it you can check the SMS on each journey completion and a full history of travel and top-ups on LINEPay, plus you can also use it at many shops, you get Rabbit Rewards, travel discounts, LINEPay points, and free blow-jobs from station guards - or at least I think that's what it said, Google Translate isn't always that accurate!

even for a tourist the 1,2 or 3 day Rabbit cards can save a lot of time and frustration at the stations - you just need to judge card value v's personal value of saved time



no the exit preferences are for Rabbit cards, from the last I have read the multi-system "Spider" card is still under development, the first version may now actually (or soon) be on limited trial on some buses, then next year will be extended to all Bangkok buses, ferries and MRT - as far as I am aware there has been no official announce about when BTS will join the scheme and Rabbit/LINEPay are unlike to just walk away but I don't see how they would fit in

bkkguy

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No, they are not just for rabbit cards, when was the last time you used the BTS ? They now have new vending machines to allow you to select not just BTS stations but also MRT stations. The exits/entry points on the right hand side are for those new tickets. You tap when you enter and insert when you exit. The cards you get are visually different from the old BTS only cards.

I am talking about actual experience using the BTS every day during October and November. In my home station of Thong Lor, they first had just one of those new vending machines, at the end of my trip they had three or so. And just one old vending machine. Granted, I never tried to select a MRT station using those new vending machines, but at least the screens now display MRT and BTS. I am guessing those might even work, but again, never tried to do that.

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Originally Posted by frequent

Since traffic accident statistics are not widely reported I don't recall how many people have been in accidents crossing the road while checking out their so-called smartphone (not smart users though). Reportedly in some Western cities it's quite high

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I read somewhere that mobile phone use overtook drink driving and speeding and is now the most frequent cause for accidents.

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Originally Posted by justaguy

No, they are not just for rabbit cards, when was the last time you used the BTS ? They now have new vending machines to allow you to select not just BTS stations but also MRT stations. The exits/entry points on the right hand side are for those new tickets. You tap when you enter and insert when you exit. The cards you get are visually different from the old BTS only cards.

I am talking about actual experience using the BTS every day during October and November. In my home station of Thong Lor, they first had just one of those new vending machines, at the end of my trip they had three or so. And just one old vending machine. Granted, I never tried to select a MRT station using those new vending machines, but at least the screens now display MRT and BTS. I am guessing those might even work, but again, never tried to do that.

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I use the BTS multiple times every week, usually to/from Sala Daeng and Siam or Chidlom - always with a Rabbit Card, not using the ticket vending machines - and the MRT a few times a month, though again with an MRT stored value card

the Thong Lor BTS station must be much more advanced than Sala Daeng - I checked today and the new style ticket machines there only dispense BTS tickets and the maps only show BTS stations, though they do show MRT and Airport interchange stations. I haven't checked Siam ticket machines recently

the exits/entry points at Sala Daeng today, and at Siam on the weekend, only seem to be separating single journey and multiple journey BTS tickets (Rabbit cards can be used in any queue) with no mention of combined BTS/MRT tickets

given integrated tickets have been such a big (and long delayed) issue for so many years I am very surprised there there has been no recent press coverage if trials of the new combined BTS/MRT tickets are now under way at Thong Lor and possibly other stations - or it may just be that BTS have actually started using new BTS only tap/inset cards in preparation for the introduction of integrated ticketing next year or whenever it finally eventuates

and given all the MRT/BTS interchanges are well beyond the ticket barriers the only solution was going to be a stored value card usable on all modes of transport so I don't understand what the new ticket machines you describe are actually selling because I wasn't aware there was ever going to be support for a single ticket from a BTS to an MRT station

but it may be why Rabbit has been pushing the Rabbit/LINE Pay connection as a way of keeping people away from the eventual new integrated Spider card!

bkkguy

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Originally Posted by christianpfc

I read somewhere that mobile phone use overtook drink driving and speeding and is now the most frequent cause for accidents.

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Indeed - it's known as the Darwin Effect (cleansing the gene pool)

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Originally Posted by bkkguy

I use the BTS multiple times every week, usually to/from Sala Daeng and Siam or Chidlom - always with a Rabbit Card, not using the ticket vending machines - and the MRT a few times a month, though again with an MRT stored value card

the Thong Lor BTS station must be much more advanced than Sala Daeng - I checked today and the new style ticket machines there only dispense BTS tickets and the maps only show BTS stations, though they do show MRT and Airport interchange stations. I haven't checked Siam ticket machines recently

the exits/entry points at Sala Daeng today, and at Siam on the weekend, only seem to be separating single journey and multiple journey BTS tickets (Rabbit cards can be used in any queue) with no mention of combined BTS/MRT tickets

given integrated tickets have been such a big (and long delayed) issue for so many years I am very surprised there there has been no recent press coverage if trials of the new combined BTS/MRT tickets are now under way at Thong Lor and possibly other stations - or it may just be that BTS have actually started using new BTS only tap/inset cards in preparation for the introduction of integrated ticketing next year or whenever it finally eventuates

and given all the MRT/BTS interchanges are well beyond the ticket barriers the only solution was going to be a stored value card usable on all modes of transport so I don't understand what the new ticket machines you describe are actually selling because I wasn't aware there was ever going to be support for a single ticket from a BTS to an MRT station

but it may be why Rabbit has been pushing the Rabbit/LINE Pay connection as a way of keeping people away from the eventual new integrated Spider card!

bkkguy

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Again, I am not saying the integrated tickets already work, I am saying when you use the screen on the new vending machines, the MRT and ARL stations are on the map. If you can select them, I do not know, as I did not try. It might be that those new vending machines are only being installed on the Sukhumvit line, I know they are at Nana, Asoke, Thong Lor, Ekkamai and Phrom Pong, as I used those there. I did not see them at National Stadium, or Saladaeng. But to go to Silom, I almost Always use BTS to Asoke and MRT to Silom. Not the BTS, as it takes longer.


What I do know 100% certain, is that a tickets obtained from the old vending machine, do not work on the entry/exit ports that are on the right, and that the new tickets do not work on those on the left. At every station on the Sukhumvit line, there is a person pointing people to the right exit/entry to use.

So again, not only for the rabbit cards, if you have a new bts ticket, you also have to use the Entry/exit points on the right. My guess is that gradually the old vending machines, and the old entry/exit points will be phased out, and at some point in time, the confusion for many people will end.

As to the separation of single journey tickets or multile journey tickets, or rabbit cards, this was never a problem, the old entry points could take both, for many years.

Just to be clear, the old tickets you insert and obtain again on entry, and you insert them on exit, when they disappear. The new tickets, you tap on entry and insert on exit, and they are vastly different in appearance.

I do hope a single journey from say Thong Lor to Silom, using BTS and MRT should be possible, otherwise there still isn't a real integrated system.. Why do the Thai Always make it more difficult than it needs to be ?

I fail to see why a single ticket couldn't support exit / entry from BTS to MRT. Surely such a thing is programatically perfectly possible.

But maybe you are right, and such a single journey ticket isn't on the books, boggles the mind why those stations are all visible on the map of the screens of the new vending machines (again not only the iNterchange stations, all stations).

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Originally Posted by justaguy

As to the separation of single journey tickets or multile journey tickets, or rabbit cards, this was never a problem, the old entry points could take both, for many years.

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and there is still not a problem now, at least for Rabbit cards - at Silom and Siam stations Rabbit cards can be tapped at all entry/exit points, but now only some of the entry and exit points have inserts slots and some are tap only.

I originally thought this was for traffic management but yes it makes sense if there is a new style of single use BTS ticket - but nowhere have I seen any reference to new integrated single BTS/MRT integrated ticket

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Originally Posted by justaguy

I do hope a single journey from say Thong Lor to Silom, using BTS and MRT should be possible, otherwise there still isn't a real integrated system.. Why do the Thai Always make it more difficult than it needs to be ?

I fail to see why a single ticket couldn't support exit / entry from BTS to MRT. Surely such a thing is programatically perfectly possible.

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you may be confusing this with subway systems in other countries - eg London, Paris, Singapore, etc - where line interchanges are behind the ticket barrier and/or where different lines are run by the same public authority or company or common ticketing had already been established

but here in Thailand, for example on your preferred combined BTS/MRT trip from Thong Lor to Silom:

1) at Thong Lor BTS you buy a ticket from Thong Lor BTS to MRT Silom
2) you enter the BTS ticket gate at Thong Lor and travel to BTS Asoke where you then exit the BTS ticket gate
3) you cross the road and walk to the MRT station
4) you enter the MRT ticket gate at Asoke and travel to MRT Silom where you exit the MRT ticket gate

your ticket purchase at 1) is based on a single onward journey, but if you decide to then have a coffee or even see a movie at Terminal 21 how do you re-price your ticket as two separate journeys?

or if you are a 65 yo falung and qualify for a discount on the MRT but not on BTS etc

the originally proposed Spider Card solution was a stored value card that could be used to tap on/off on all BKK busess, ferries, MRT, BTS and ARL - each operator could manage its own fare structure and discounts and operators could make their own agreements as to what time period still qualified as a single onward journey

in the last few years, apart from repeated stories or continuing delays with the introduction of the Spider Card, I have still never seen any announcement of a single combined BTS/MRT or MRT/BTS ticket - or for that matter the availability of the Spider Card itself

but given justaguy's reports of developments on the Sukhumvit BTS line I live in hope - and will probably die in despair :dash:

bkkguy

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Originally Posted by bkkguy

in the last few years, apart from repeated stories or continuing delays with the introduction of the Spider Card, I have still never seen any announcement of a single combined BTS/MRT or MRT/BTS ticket - or for that matter the availability of the Spider Card itself

but given justaguy's reports of developments on the Sukhumvit BTS line I live in hope - and will probably die in despair

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There were promotional signs for the Spider Card when I passed through Asoke last week, and it's available for purchase in some MRT stations but for the moment it is available only for some MRT travel. I noticed the guy in front of me at Silom yesterday was using one as he was having trouble getting the gate mechanism to recognise it but it did so after a few taps

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Originally Posted by frequent

There were promotional signs for the Spider Card when I passed through Asoke last week, and it's available for purchase in some MRT stations but for the moment it is available only for some MRT travel.

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so not even as useful as the current MRT stored value card then ...

bkkguy

More accurately the promotional material was after exiting Sukhumvit MRT but before ascending to Asoke/Terminal 21

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Originally Posted by bkkguy

so not even as useful as the current MRT stored value card then ...

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Integrated travel across different transport systems is sometimes more complex to implement than many people assume - just ask Sydney folks how long it took to get Opal up and running. That and the Thai propensity to make a complete clusterfuck of almost everything and we are where we are

Yes it probably is complicated. I guess the problem is that even the new bts tickets require a tap for entry, but when you exit you need to insert the ticket, and it does not come back. And I am guessing (but I do not know for sure) that those gates don't support returning the ticket, because then a person having a bts only ticket would not get the ticket back, but someone purchasing a combined ticket would actually get it back, so it can be used again at the MRT.

But for sure, those new vending machines do show the whole map, not only BTS, but MRT, ARL and the purple line.

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Originally Posted by bkkguy

and there is still not a problem now, at least for Rabbit cards - at Silom and Siam stations Rabbit cards can be tapped at all entry/exit points, but now only some of the entry and exit points have inserts slots and some are tap only.

I originally thought this was for traffic management but yes it makes sense if there is a new style of single use BTS ticket - but nowhere have I seen any reference to new integrated single BTS/MRT integrated ticket



you may be confusing this with subway systems in other countries - eg London, Paris, Singapore, etc - where line interchanges are behind the ticket barrier and/or where different lines are run by the same public authority or company or common ticketing had already been established

but here in Thailand, for example on your preferred combined BTS/MRT trip from Thong Lor to Silom:

1) at Thong Lor BTS you buy a ticket from Thong Lor BTS to MRT Silom
2) you enter the BTS ticket gate at Thong Lor and travel to BTS Asoke where you then exit the BTS ticket gate
3) you cross the road and walk to the MRT station
4) you enter the MRT ticket gate at Asoke and travel to MRT Silom where you exit the MRT ticket gate

your ticket purchase at 1) is based on a single onward journey, but if you decide to then have a coffee or even see a movie at Terminal 21 how do you re-price your ticket as two separate journeys?

or if you are a 65 yo falung and qualify for a discount on the MRT but not on BTS etc

the originally proposed Spider Card solution was a stored value card that could be used to tap on/off on all BKK busess, ferries, MRT, BTS and ARL - each operator could manage its own fare structure and discounts and operators could make their own agreements as to what time period still qualified as a single onward journey

in the last few years, apart from repeated stories or continuing delays with the introduction of the Spider Card, I have still never seen any announcement of a single combined BTS/MRT or MRT/BTS ticket - or for that matter the availability of the Spider Card itself

but given justaguy's reports of developments on the Sukhumvit BTS line I live in hope - and will probably die in despair :dash:

bkkguy

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To be honest, if they can make it so that the "combined" ticket is returned at Asoke, I fail to see how you couldn't use it again at Sukumvit MRT to enter for your journey to Silom, providing one does it within a certain time limit.

This is partially how RER tickets work in Paris. You purchase that RER ticket at your departure station, travel into Paris center, and providing you enter the subway within a certain time limit (one hour I believe) you can use the vary same ticket on the subway. Granted, in this case, you can travel the full extend of the subway, as Paris subway tickets aren't distance based such as the BTS/MRT.

Again, I am afraid you might die in despair, but I put hope in the fact that they now show the complete map, this is why I assumed the combined ticket was now a reality.

The system is fun anyway, remember how I stated that getting a ticket at Asoke during rush hour is a nightmare ? Certainly if you also need change ? What I have been doing from quite some time now is simply buy two BTS tickets at Thong Lor, go to Asoke, do my business and return to Thong Lor with the second ticket I bought at Thong Lor. I believe that as long as you do it on the same day this will work fine.

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Originally Posted by frequent

Integrated travel across different transport systems is sometimes more complex to implement than many people assume - just ask Sydney folks how long it took to get Opal up and running.

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absolutely - and there are still ongoing problems and "fine tuning" with Opal in Sydney as there are also with the multi-modal ticket systems in Melbourne and in Perth and these are mostly just dealing with different government departments responsible for different modes of transport and with just a limited number of private companies on some services - not like MRT and BTS and government and private buses and ferries here!

I don't know that any city in the world has ever implemented a multi-modal integrated ticking system to budget and within a reasonable time frame and kept all their citizens and tourists happy with the ticketing options, but I think part of the problem here - apart from the usual "Thai way" of doing things - is that they are a little bit late to the party and most of us are already used to usable systems in our home countries and the other international cities we travel to regularly even while we understand that none of these systems are perfect!

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Originally Posted by justaguy

I guess the problem is that even the new bts tickets require a tap for entry, but when you exit you need to insert the ticket, and it does not come back. And I am guessing (but I do not know for sure) that those gates don't support returning the ticket, because then a person having a bts only ticket would not get the ticket back, but someone purchasing a combined ticket would actually get it back, so it can be used again at the MRT.

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and don't the MRT still use the coin-shaped tokens for single journeys? should the BTS accept these too?

the hardware is not really the problem - the entry/exit hardware can be re-engineered for all systems as required, it just takes money and more importantly commitment

the various operator software systems are not really the problem - they can be re-written as required, it just takes money and more importantly commitment

what it takes is agreement by multiple companies and government departments and I am sure in a few years there may well be a workable system here in Bangkok, I am just not holding my breath

bkkguy

Yes the MRT stil uses coin shaped tokens. Tap to enter, insert to exit.

Commitment, cooperation, and agreement. Further complicated because the BTS is not a state agency but a commercial entity, the ARL is run by SRT and the MRT by the MRTA, only two of those are state owned.

The BTS is in operation for almost 20 years now, the MRT for 14 years, we keep waiting I guess. To me, the current system is doable. But far from ideal.

As I said, I am relying on single journey tickets. The BTS biggest problem is waiting for chance. As the majority of their vending machines do not accept 20 baht notes (or any other notes for that matter). At least the MRT does accept those, but the problem there is they don't really have enough vending machines. In Sukhumvit, they have three on the Asoke Side and only two on the end nearer to Phetburi. As a matter of course, I already walk to the Phetburi end, because at the Asoke end the queues can be horrendous. But I suppose in recent times more and more people do the same, meaning that even on the Phetburi side, you sometimes have to wait for 10 minutes just to get a token.

I wished they fixed those issues. They have plenty of space to provide more vending machines at the MRT, and I am still confused as to why only a handfull of vending machines offer notes payment at the BTS. Even those new vending machines I talked about, do not accept notes, but finally they do accept the 2 baht coin !

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Originally Posted by justaguy

As I said, I am relying on single journey tickets. The BTS biggest problem is waiting for chan[g]e. ... the MRT ... the problem there is they don't really have enough vending machines.
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I wished they fixed those issues.

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without wishing to drag the discussion back to my earlier post on this thread ...

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Originally Posted by bkkguy

[stored value] cards can save a lot of time and frustration at the stations - you just need to judge card value v's personal value of saved time

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and not just in Bangkok - in most cities when I travel to the first thing I get is some sort of multi-day/multi-trip/stored value card to make public transport as convenient - and often as cheap - as possible

and I would of thought in Bangkok if you can afford to pay BTS/MRT single journey fares fairly regularly then it should be possible to "invest" the cost of 3 or 4 journeys on a stored value card - what, 100-150 Baht? - and significantly reduce your wasted time and frustration, and "invest" a bit more and you can have a month or more of relatively stress-free travel

and with a Rabbit/LINEPay card it tops up automatically solving most of your problems for the BTS at least

and if the Rabbit card ever becomes usable on the MRT or the new Spider card is accepted on both the MRT and BTS and has an auto topup option then I am happy and the plebs can continue to suffer in the change and ticket machine queues

bkkguy