gentlemen only-when? where?

[thaiguest]

When and where are we going to get a 'gentlemen only' gay bar? The ladies in the lesbian bar, Jomtien, operate a 'ladies only' bar I'm told; good luck to them, at least they have balls to say what they mean and mean what they say. Not so our gay bar owners; they're bar owners first and gay a poor second.

I'm sick of smug remarks like: "well we're getting a lot of straight couples and single women lately and they're very good spenders".

These owners don't have it both ways with MY money. If ladies enter a gay bar I leave, if they're already nesting there peeking through their fingers at the big cocks I don't go in. But I always explain myself to the mamasan, not that it makes much difference.

I love the company of women but I go to gay bars to get away from them in the same way that straight blokes go to the pub to get away from the wives. Most of all I object to women in gay bars because male nudity in the presence of women makes me cringe with embarrassment. That's the way I was reared. I think most gay men think like I do. Their absence creates the need to fill up empty seats with straight couples and women. A self perpetuating policy which in the long run is BAD FOR BUSINESS.

Any gay bar owner out there with the cajones to implement a 'gentlemen only' policy for at least one season if only as an experiment?

[cdnmatt]

Yeah, I know, those women can be very scary at times...

"OMG! It's a female! I must leave right away."

Really, I just don't get the rationale... It's going to be 2011 shortly, so my guess is you're just going to have to get over it, and live with it.


I think most gay men think like I do.

I don't think anything even remotely close to that. If the women don't want to see dick in public, they probably won't sit around and drink in a gay bar, so I wouldn't worry about being uncomfortable because they seen a bit of flesh. Women are allowed to be sex tourists too. :-) Or what? Women aren't allowed to pickup straight guys from the bars, and they should all be reserved for gay men only? Women need sexy times too. :-)

PS. If gay people want full equality & rights in society, then we should probably act what we preach, and be open minded & tolerant, don't you think?

[RichLB]

I agree with the original poster. My objection to women in gay bars is I don't like being part of their entertainment. They come not only to look at the dancing guys, but to ogle the gay customers and snicker amongst themselves at our behavior. It's even worse when a tour bus empties their gaggle of misbehaving tourists to fill a bar and make the regular customers feel as if they are the interlopers.

[CoffeeBreak]

I agree with the original poster. My objection to women in gay bars is I don't like being part of their entertainment. They come not only to look at the dancing guys, but to ogle the gay customers and snicker amongst themselves at our behavior. It's even worse when a tour bus empties their gaggle of misbehaving tourists to fill a bar and make the regular customers feel as if they are the interlopers.

Yes I too agree with the original poster and with RichLB, so well done to both of you.

Seems to me that most gays whatever nationality do want places for ourselves and having women and straights in our bars amongst other things simply spoils the dynamics of these places. Do any of you remember the old Rome Club in BKK? it was the best late night place in town for gays until the straights discovered it and then it went down hill. Years back the old Holywood off south pattaya road was the best in Pattaya for our community, but it moved to North Pattaya and has a more straight clientele and the gays have mostly abandoned it and now go to NAB and Dave Club.
I agree someone should have the guts to say :'Men Only' or even 'Gay Only' or have a similar door policy.But with the greedy bar owners, that prospect is unlikely so like the OP does, best to vote with ones feet.
Maybe one answer is to have more non- gay bars catering exclusively to straight women who want straight boys?!

When and where are we going to get a 'gentlemen only' gay bar? The ladies in the lesbian bar, Jomtien, operate a 'ladies only' bar I'm told; good luck to them, at least they have balls to say what they mean and mean what they say. Not so our gay bar owners; they're bar owners first and gay a poor second.


Why don't you give it a try yourself?
There are lots of bars for sale in Pattaya right now ... put your money where your mouth is.

[Patexpat]

I'm told what opened as a lesbian bar in Jomtien now welcome anyone they can get ..... economic reality I'm afraid. However I do have some sympathy with the original OP .... I refuse to be part of the 'entertainment' for straights in a bar, which is very different from having straight friends accompanying you as, well friends. as many of mine do.

[Beachlover]

In the short term most gay gogo bars probably make more money by allowing straights in. The answer comes down to what the long-term implications are... what percentage of customers do we lose by allowing women in and what percentage of customers do we gain by allowing them in? It would vary on a case by case basis. In Boyztown, Pattaya they probably get a lot of tourists so they have a lot to lose if they implement a no females policy. Similarly the biggest gogo bars in Bangkok like Dream Boys would lose a LOT of customers if they barred women. I see lots of girls and mixed groups in there. Pretty sure I've seen gay guys with their female friends there too.


Most of all I object to women in gay bars because male nudity in the presence of women makes me cringe with embarrassment. That's the way I was reared. I think most gay men think like I do.
I definitely don't think like that. Don't mind male nudity in front of women at all. In fact it kind of turns me on.


I agree with the original poster. My objection to women in gay bars is I don't like being part of their entertainment. They come not only to look at the dancing guys, but to ogle the gay customers and snicker amongst themselves at our behavior. It's even worse when a tour bus empties their gaggle of misbehaving tourists to fill a bar and make the regular customers feel as if they are the interlopers.
I wouldn't like being gawked at either but I've never had this issue... Only times I've seen women in gogo bars they were either watching the show and having fun like everyone else or smitten and charmed by some gogo boy.

[Brad the Impala]

When and where are we going to get a 'gentlemen only' gay bar? The ladies in the lesbian bar, Jomtien, operate a 'ladies only' bar I'm told; good luck to them, at least they have balls to say what they mean and mean what they say. Not so our gay bar owners; they're bar owners first and gay a poor second.

I'm sick of smug remarks like: "well we're getting a lot of straight couples and single women lately and they're very good spenders".

These owners don't have it both ways with MY money. If ladies enter a gay bar I leave, if they're already nesting there peeking through their fingers at the big cocks I don't go in. But I always explain myself to the mamasan, not that it makes much difference.


Do you object to lesbians in "your" gay bar?

[Impulse]

Why don't you give it a try yourself?
There are lots of bars for sale in Pattaya right now ... put your money where your mouth is.
Agreed,the op might quickly revert to an all sexes allowed bar.
I really don't notice this 'problem',at all.Try the sunee plaza bars,not many women there.

[thaiguest]

"Shortbread' tells me to open a bar and put my money where my mouth is. I have never been in the bar business and I'm not going in now.

I'm glad that most posters agree with me on the topic in question. I hope they act accordingly and tell the bars the reason.

Gay bars are there to cater for gay people. There are hundreds of bars catering for the straights including bars for straight women and if more are needed then people like 'shortbread' can put their money where their mouths are and open more.

The minimum that gay bars should offer gay clients should include; a gay ambiance, freedom from embarrassment or ridicule, reasonable prices and a safe 'legal' environment ie no underage boys being presented as of legal age. The
latter is important because so many gays are scammed through the use of 'almost legal' young men.

At the moment we're offered: a gay theme park in Boystown, a rip-off soi on Suriwong and a small number of places that are genuine but isolated; that is until the trendy straights find them.

I suspect that it's the private ambition of many gay bar owners to evolve into the trendy straight market on the backs of the gay clients. But not on MY back thank you. It's something I'm not going to put up with. ( Yes, Mr. Troll I know, this being Thailand I often finish with a proposition.)

[quote="thaiguest"]"Shortbread' tells me to open a bar and put my money where my mouth is. Typical Scot; good at spending other people's money. I have never been in the bar business and I'm not going in now. I'm glad that most posters agree with me on this topic.

I certainly do agree with you. By the way there is another Scottish guy that posts here often but says nothing. Maybe its all that cold damp weather!

freedom from embarrassment or ridicule

Ridicule is the only thing that a whingeing old poof like you deserves. You complain about everything.
If you don't like what's available in Thailand ... try somewhere else. :thebirdman:

[Bob]

.....I'm glad that most posters agree with me on this topic......Gay bars are there to cater for gay people.

What an absolutely silly premise in the first place. Let's see, only gay "guys" are to be allowed? How can you be assured they're really a "guy" or they are even "gay"? Can a bi-sexual be admitted? What about a guy who's 80% straight and 20% gay? What about somebody that used to have male equipment? (etc., etc.)

And, of course, the silly premise has a corrollary: That you obviously approve of an owner of a "straight" bar telling you to get the hell out because you're (eeks!!!) gay!

[thaiguest]

.....I'm glad that most posters agree with me on this topic......Gay bars are there to cater for gay people.

What an absolutely silly premise in the first place. Let's see, only gay "guys" are to be allowed? How can you be assured they're really a "guy" or they are even "gay"? Can a bi-sexual be admitted? What about a guy who's 80% straight and 20% gay? What about somebody that used to have male equipment? (etc., etc.)

And, of course, the silly premise has a corrollary: That you obviously approve of an owner of a "straight" bar telling you to get the hell out because you're (eeks!!!) gay!

The title of the post refers to 'gentlemen only' bars. Silly of you not to have read that. Of course gay bars are there for gay people. Who do think has built them up to where they are now- staight women, straight men, some unknown hominid?
If there are straight men among the guests all the better, especially if they're handsome. We already have many straight boys on the stage.
Your corrollary is silly as well. Many straight bars will make it quite clear that you're not welcome if you're obviously gay. There's a straight (Irish) bar on the corner of the middle soi in Pattaya Land ( I forget the soi number) and up to very recently the owner posted the following behind the bar;DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT BRINGING YOUR BOYFRIEND IN HERE- and that's in the heart of "Boystown". You go there tomorrow with a boyfriend and have the guts to report back here. But you probably won't have time to get here; Thailand is a long way from western suburbia.

... There's a straight (Irish) bar on the corner of the middle soi in Pattaya Land ( I forget the soi number) and up to very recently the owner posted the following behind the bar;DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT BRINGING YOUR BOYFRIEND IN HERE- and that's in the heart of "Boystown". You go there tomorrow with a boyfriend and have the guts to report back here....

I will report back for him: I know exactly the bar you mean - diagonally opposite Palmers - it may be called Murphy's I'm not certain.

I went in there with my "boyfriend" no more than a month ago. There was no problem whatsoever - far from it - we bought a couple of drinks and we were given - gratis- a plate of deep-fried battered fish which some of the regulars had caught on a fishing-trip.

Everybody was very friendly.

Perhaps the notice you refer to is directed to the female prostitutes in the area rather than gay men?

:dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow:

[thaiguest]

... There's a straight (Irish) bar on the corner of the middle soi in Pattaya Land ( I forget the soi number) and up to very recently the owner posted the following behind the bar;DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT BRINGING YOUR BOYFRIEND IN HERE- and that's in the heart of "Boystown". You go there tomorrow with a boyfriend and have the guts to report back here....

I will report back for him: I know exactly the bar you mean - diagonally opposite Palmers - it may be called Murphy's I'm not certain.

I went in there with my "boyfriend" no more than a month ago. There was no problem whatsoever - far from it - we bought a couple of drinks and we were given - gratis- a plate of deep-fried battered fish which some of the regulars had caught on a fishing-trip.

Everybody was very friendly.

Perhaps the notice you refer to is directed to female prostitutes rather than gay men?

:dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow:
Fair enough; at least you're living here.
I had a nasty experience there last year. I went with a gay friend and his boyfriend. The thai bar ladies were no problem as you would expect but we were surrounded by a bunch of americans who told us in no uncertain terms that we had better 'get our gay asses' out before the owner came back or even right now. My friend is a former welsh miner and no whimp and placed his fist under the jaw bone of the leader of the pack who quickly shrank back. The girls got very upset so because of them we left. I have no doubt but the owner has his customers schooled. I wouldn't be too confident strolling around soi Bucow with a boyfriend either. Hence gay bars.

[thaiguest]

"Shortbread' tells me to open a bar and put my money where my mouth is. Typical Scot; good at spending other people's money. I have never been in the bar business and I'm not going in now. I'm glad that most posters agree with me on this topic.

I certainly do agree with you. By the way there is another Scottish guy that posts here often but says nothing. Maybe its all that cold damp weather!
My reference to Scots inappropriate. Apologies.

Remarks like 'put your money where your mouth is' brings out the worst in me, especially after a few scotch whiskies.

Ah well, Americans ........ that explains everything!!

I have experienced very little hassle over the years - but in Phuket recently as I was walking out of Jungceylon with the aforemention "boyfriend" (you know how Thais like to be demonstrative) - some loud-mouthed Amercian made a comment along the lines of "What the fuck?????"

On politely pointing out that he was a fat, ugly American bastard and on asking loudly if he would care to have his cunt kicked in, he went strangely quiet.

I recommend this course of action to anybody finding himself in a similar situation. If you can do it in a Scottish accent it seems to help.

:occasion9: :occasion9:

[quote="scottish-guy"]

I went in there with my "boyfriend" no more than a month ago. There was no problem whatsoever - far from it - we bought a couple of drinks and we were given - gratis- a plate of deep-fried battered fish which some of the regulars had caught on a fishing-trip.

Everybody was very friendly.

Considering your boyfriend is a katheoy the comparison is hardly a fair one!

I went in there with my "boyfriend" no more than a month ago. There was no problem whatsoever - far from it - we bought a couple of drinks and we were given - gratis- a plate of deep-fried battered fish which some of the regulars had caught on a fishing-trip.

Everybody was very friendly.

Considering your boyfriend is a katheoy the comparison is hardly a fair one!

Since YOUR "boyfriend" is probably one of your blood relatives, I don't think you have any room to criticise dear.

:occasion9: :occasion9:

[Beachlover]

I'm glad that most posters agree with me on the topic in question. I hope they act accordingly and tell the bars the reason.
Actually, prior to your second post, it looks like more posters disagreed than agreed with your opinion.


Gay bars are there to cater for gay people. There are hundreds of bars catering for the straights including bars for straight women and if more are needed then people like 'shortbread' can put their money where their mouths are and open more.
Straight bars don't bar gay guys from entering do they? Why should gay bars ban straights?


The minimum that gay bars should offer gay clients should include; a gay ambiance, freedom from embarrassment or ridicule
I think the embarrassment and ridicule may be more in your own self-conscious mind... I've never had an issue with ladies having fun in gay bars. And the issue of, "male nudity in the presence of women makes me cringe with embarrassment" is a bit ridiculous don't you think? How does male nudity in front of ladies make you cringe? Or is it generally any nudity in front of the opposite sex (e.g. females nude in front of males)?


It's something I'm not going to put up with. ( Yes, Mr. Troll I know, this being Thailand I often finish with a proposition.)
Nothing wrong with ending with a proposition. Only old, traditional academic farts will tell you it's wrong.

[Beachlover]

as I was walking out of Jungceylon with the aforemention "boyfriend" (you know how Thais like to be demonstrative) - some loud-mouthed Amercian made a comment along the lines of "What the fuck?????" On politely pointing out that he was a fat, ugly American bastard and on asking loudly if he would care to have his cunt kicked in, he went strangely quiet. I recommend this course of action to anybody finding himself in a similar situation. If you can do it in a Scottish accent it seems to help.

LOL... nice one.

[thaiguest]

I'm glad that most posters agree with me on the topic in question. I hope they act accordingly and tell the bars the reason.
Actually, prior to your second post, it looks like more posters disagreed than agreed with your opinion.


Gay bars are there to cater for gay people. There are hundreds of bars catering for the straights including bars for straight women and if more are needed then people like 'shortbread' can put their money where their mouths are and open more.
Straight bars don't bar gay guys from entering do they? Why should gay bars ban straights?


The minimum that gay bars should offer gay clients should include; a gay ambiance, freedom from embarrassment or ridicule
I think the embarrassment and ridicule may be more in your own self-conscious mind... I've never had an issue with ladies having fun in gay bars. And the issue of, "male nudity in the presence of women makes me cringe with embarrassment" is a bit ridiculous don't you think? How does male nudity in front of ladies make you cringe? Or is it generally any nudity in front of the opposite sex (e.g. females nude in front of males)?
Your point no. 1; If most posters disagree this reflects the crux of the problem for gay venues.
Your point no. 2; yes straight bars do ban gay people when they're sure of their ground; tattooed straight falangs won't sit with gays and the owners, being business people first, know this and act accordingly.
Your point no. 3; I find male nudity in the company of women embarrassing but I already explained that in my first post. None of YOUR variations come into it.
Your point no. 4; I don't think you got the joke.



It's something I'm not going to put up with. ( Yes, Mr. Troll I know, this being Thailand I often finish with a proposition.)
Nothing wrong with ending with a proposition. Only old, traditional academic farts will tell you it's wrong.

[thaiguest]

freedom from embarrassment or ridicule

Ridicule is the only thing that a whingeing old poof like you deserves. You complain about everything.
If you don't like what's available in Thailand ... try somewhere else. :thebirdman:
And you're such a nice man. I love the sting of the shinty stick. Give it to me one more time.

[catawampuscat]

IF only the boy bars didn't allow
1) women, straight couples, Russians, tour groups
2) cigarette/cigar/pipe smokers
3) bar flies and drunken sots
4) ladyboys, fem boys, trannies
5) old fat farangs
6) pedos, underagers
7) loud music, uncomfortable seating, dirty toilets
8) overpriced drinks
9) and the list goes on and on...

There are many choices and short of opening your own bar, one will find bars that work
for them and give them their business.. anyone want to add to the list, be my guest..

IF only the boy bars didn't allow
1) women, straight couples, Russians, tour groups
2) cigarette/cigar/pipe smokers
3) bar flies and drunken sots
4) ladyboys, fem boys, trannies
5) old fat farangs
6) pedos, underagers
7) loud music, uncomfortable seating, dirty toilets
8) overpriced drinks
9) and the list goes on and on...

There are many choices and short of opening your own bar, one will find bars that work
for them and give them their business.. anyone want to add to the list, be my guest..


10) Boring Old Farts.

[Brad the Impala]

Whereas you Ripley have so much knowledge of posting under different handles. Was it an immaculate conjection for the new one?

[Smiles]

"Ah well, Americans ........ that explains everything!!
I have experienced very little hassle over the years - but in Phuket recently as I was walking out of Jungceylon with the aforemention "boyfriend" (you know how Thais like to be demonstrative) - some loud-mouthed Amercian made a comment along the lines of "What the fuck?????"
On politely pointing out that he was a fat, ugly American bastard and on asking loudly if he would care to have his cunt kicked in, he went strangely quiet.
I recommend this course of action to anybody finding himself in a similar situation. If you can do it in a Scottish accent it seems to help ... "
Austraian accents work best for most general cunt-kicking situations.
But confrontational politics aside, Scottie's macho-man act is pilfered straight from 'Priscilla ... ' with the movie ~ in subtle fashion ~ cleverly adding tampons into the mix.

[youtube:3gyxsds1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yLiGbJLWi8[/youtube:3gyxsds1]

[Beachlover]

Whereas you Ripley have so much knowledge of posting under different handles. Was it an immaculate conjection for the new one?
I think it was a pissed, doped and drugged up conjection...as is anything "undaunted" (ripley) creates.


9) and the list goes on and on...

There are many choices and short of opening your own bar, one will find bars that work
for them and give them their business.. anyone want to add to the list, be my guest..
Is it possible for any bar or forum to "work" for you? Or do you find it unacceptable for any environmental factor, behaviour or person you personally find undesirable to be present in venues you visit?

You might be better off staying at home. At least that's an environment you have complete control over and can only blame yourself if anything is not perfectly tailored to your whims. You can make friends with the Exclusive Brethren or something.


If most posters disagree this reflects the crux of the problem for gay venues
I think it's more a problem for people who have an issue with women in gay bars. A couple of small bars in less touristy places like Sunee Plaza could implement a men only policy to attract the few gay guys who have enough an issue with the presence of women to avoid the other gay bars.


yes straight bars do ban gay people when they're sure of their ground; tattooed straight falangs won't sit with gays and the owners, being business people first, know this and act accordingly.
In a way, doesn't this make you the straight, tatooed, homophobic falang's counterpart?

But confrontational politics aside, Scottie's macho-man act is pilfered straight from [i][b]'Priscilla ...

Excuse me, I don't do pilfering.

Some small points you have overlooked:

1. The confrontation did not take place is Australia.
2. The confrontation did not take place in a bar.
3. I was not in drag.
4. I did not have another 2 drag queens with me.
5. I do not resemble Terrence Stamp in drag.
6. My opponent was not a woman
7. No drinking contest took place.
8. My name is not fucking RALPH!

:occasion9: :occasion9:

it looks like more posters disagreed than agreed with your opinion.

Perhaps among the few that engaged in the discussion here, not many agreed with Thaiguest, but I recently did a survey on my blog, whose results indicate that he speaks for a definite majority.

http://shamelessmack.wordpress.com/2010/10/31/poll-results-attitudes-to-women-customers-in-gay-male-places/

I also note that Beachlover is Australian, and in fact the survey threw up something really odd about responses from Australians - of all the nationalities, they were unusually tolerant about women. So if there is anyone whose views may be unrepresentative of the "centre of gravity", so to speak, of opinion from gay punters of various different nationalities, it would be Beachlover et al.

There are many reasons for the observed decline of the gogo bar industry in Thailand, but I am pretty sure this is one of the them. If any of you want to see how bad (i.e. gay-denying, price-exorbitant) such bars can get, visit one of the macho dancer bars in Manila. I have a bad feeling that that is the future that awaits Thai bars.

[Wesley]

Having been married, I agree, I would hate and did leave when women came in. if there is one place I should be able to get away from straight pussy is in a gay off bar any where, Seems to me there are 90% of straight guys out there that are for free.

Wes

Having been married, I agree, I would hate and did leave when women came in. if there is one place I should be able to get away from straight pussy is in a gay off bar any where, Seems to me there are 90% of straight guys out there that are for free.

Wes

Agree holeheartedly (!) on the first point.

On the second point - 90%? - you must have the gift of the gab - or to quote a line from "Blazing Saddles":

"...why, (Mr Wesley)... you use your tongue prettier than a 20 dollar whore"

:occasion9: :occasion9:

[Beachlover]

it looks like more posters disagreed than agreed with your opinion.

Perhaps among the few that engaged in the discussion here, not many agreed with Thaiguest, but I recently did a survey on my blog, whose results indicate that he speaks for a definite majority.

http://shamelessmack.wordpress.com/2010/10/31/poll-results-attitudes-to-women-customers-in-gay-male-places/

I also note that Beachlover is Australian, and in fact the survey threw up something really odd about responses from Australians - of all the nationalities, they were unusually tolerant about women. So if there is anyone whose views may be unrepresentative of the "centre of gravity", so to speak, of opinion from gay punters of various different nationalities, it would be Beachlover et al.

There are many reasons for the observed decline of the gogo bar industry in Thailand, but I am pretty sure this is one of the them. If any of you want to see how bad (i.e. gay-denying, price-exorbitant) such bars can get, visit one of the macho dancer bars in Manila. I have a bad feeling that that is the future that awaits Thai bars.

I don't know if it's so black and white or if the definite majority are as vehemently against women in gay bars as he is. Your survey indicated 80% felt "some level of discomfort" at women in bars. Only 37% "might" avoid bars with women and an even lower 16% said they would "boycott" (most extreme) such bars.

Interesting... I wonder why Australian gay men are more comfortable with women? Any theories?

In truth, I mainly think about gay clubs and discos. I rarely visit gogo bars in Thailand. On average, I might visit a gogo bar once each trip to watch a show or have a beer and a perve at what's going on if I'm bored.

But I'm just as comfortable seeing women in gogo bars as I am in gay discos. Don't care either way. I'm comfortable around women and not embarrassed. In fact, I've gotten pretty frisky with boys I've met on the dance floor in gay discos with ladies present. One boy I chatted up was with his friends and his Sister too. She was having the time of her life dancing around all these cute hunky boys. Her Brother kept pushing us together to tease her. That would never happen with a straight bro/sister! Later, she teased him mercilessly after he got together with me... all good fun.

Actually, I like seeing how women react and enjoy themselves in gay gogo bars. Sometimes it's funny to watch. One time, I walked into a bar in Phuket, which was pretty quiet. Ordered a whiskey. Bunch of gogo boys were dancing on the stage in their underwear. In walked this group of Australian women - aged late 30s to mid 40s. They sat down, had a few drinks. They were laughing and having fun but the boys on stage all looked bored and the bar was pretty subdued.

One of the ladies got up on stage and started leading the boys in this jig of a dance. She was a bit of a character. It was hilarious... this grinning white Aussie woman dancing with a group of brown-skinned natives in their underwear up on stage... After she got off I gave her a tip LOL.

Anyway, I can understand some guys may feel self conscious in a gogo bar if there are women present. They might not feel comfortable to be themselves (whatever that entails). I just think, fuck it. You don't know any of these people. They don't know you. Just be yourself and do whatever you want to do regardless of who's watching. Relax and do away with being self conscious or embarrassed... this is YOUR home ground... they're just visiting. You should feel liberated (from straight women controlling you or whatever) and free to be yourself.

[Brad the Impala]

Interesting... I wonder why Australian gay men are more comfortable with women? Any theories?
.

That was the most interesting part of the survey. I have noticed that Oz men are more comfortable having women as mates than other nationalities. Perhaps it's to do with the directness of dialogue versus the affectations of European attitudes and expectations of what women should be, while the Americans are just pussy whipped in general, and dying to just spend time away from women!

Americans are just pussy whipped in general, and dying to just spend time away from women!

Unless of course your name is Tiger Woods, but there again he's half Thai...

Having spent a lot of time in Bali it never ceased to amaze me at the herds of cow like Aussie woman walking along. This is the reason Australian men are more at ease with woman they view them as domesticated beings such as those in a barnyard.

NO!

I WON'T HAVE THAT!




Barnyard animals smell less


:occasion9:

[jinks]

Calm down scottish, another flame poster has gone to the forum in the sky.(or down there)

[Beachlover]

Interesting... I wonder why Australian gay men are more comfortable with women? Any theories?
That was the most interesting part of the survey. I have noticed that Oz men are more comfortable having women as mates than other nationalities. Perhaps it's to do with the directness of dialogue versus the affectations of European attitudes and expectations of what women should be, while the Americans are just pussy whipped in general, and dying to just spend time away from women!
Yeah, I don't know why that is. I have heard from a lot of people in the service industry that they like Aussies because we are very laid back and casual in character compared with US/British tourists who can be more formal, demanding and/or big headed. They always seem to relax a bit more when you tell them you're from Australia. That's not to say Aussie bogan travelers don't have undesirable characteristics too....

[chillnorth]

This thread may have run its course, but a recent experience brought it to mind.

I had a few hours to kill after dinner and stopped by a couple of gay watering holes in CM to say hello to friends. In the first a good time was being had by all when in trooped a half dozen middle aged American women (the hair was a dead giveaway) who settled down and arranged themselves quite clearly as a viewing gallery with little conversation and not much in the way of smiles between them. This being the City of Roses, mountain lads, and missionaries, I began to wonder if they might be a different sort of sex tour (or anti-sex tour) doing field research on the Lifestyles of the Lost. If so, they would have had to have a low threshold for squalor to catch a thrill.
Nonetheless, thoughts of Carrie Nation and the temperance movement of the early 20th century :drv: were hard to escape. They didn't break anything, but they didn't help my mood and I moved on earlier than I might have. It's possible and even likely that having exited the States to escape the vibes there I'm just projecting the presence of a particular kind of female that returns me to the more difficult parts of my own coming out process. I'll save that for the Therapy thread.

In the second spot there was a mixture of Thai and farang men and lads and more than a few women as well as our cousins of the third sex. A difference for me was that the women present were all Thai, the several groups were mixed and relaxed, and I actually lingered there much longer than expected. I reflected that there have been times when I've been in gay establishments with women who were discomfiting and in others where they were fun and that even though I couldn't tell you which nationalities exactly trigger that response in me other than my own, there seems to be a clear distinction. If there's a survey out there that shows a correlation between nationalities of women and their comfort levels with gay lifestyles I've missed it (and suspect a link will be presented shortly), but wouldn't be surprised at all.

A lot of bars in the old days had signs that read ""All Nations Welcome But Carrie". Maybe a newer gay version could be "All Women Welcome But the Wrong Ones".

[thaiguest]

it looks like more posters disagreed than agreed with your opinion.

Perhaps among the few that engaged in the discussion here, not many agreed with Thaiguest, but I recently did a survey on my blog, whose results indicate that he speaks for a definite majority.

http://shamelessmack.wordpress.com/2010/10/31/poll-results-attitudes-to-women-customers-in-gay-male-places/

I also note that Beachlover is Australian, and in fact the survey threw up something really odd about responses from Australians - of all the nationalities, they were unusually tolerant about women. So if there is anyone whose views may be unrepresentative of the "centre of gravity", so to speak, of opinion from gay punters of various different nationalities, it would be Beachlover et al.

There are many reasons for the observed decline of the gogo bar industry in Thailand, but I am pretty sure this is one of the them. If any of you want to see how bad (i.e. gay-denying, price-exorbitant) such bars can get, visit one of the macho dancer bars in Manila. I have a bad feeling that that is the future that awaits Thai bars.

Anyone with common sense knows I speak for a definite majority but thanks for the confirmation anyway.

This forum is known for the prissy nitpickers who insist on throwing in their dime's worth even when they know nothing about the reality of the matter in question and have no actual interest (material or otherwise) in the essence of the issue, living as they are with their elderly parents or other such long suffering relatives.

Don't expect a representative impression of real gay opinion via this forum; some good guys but many twisted, nasty sh-t heads.

This topic has run its couse certainly but its heartening to see so much interest displayed.

Over and out.

[cdnmatt]

Don't expect a representative impression of real gay opinion via this forum

The "real gay" people, eh? So where exactly would I find them? I think you mean to say, "the gay people who think like I do".

Christ, get a life...

The "real gay" people, eh?

I'm confused by that too Matt. Does 'thaiguest' go around saying to people "I'm not gay I'm a real gay" The mind boggles to say the least....

Over to you Scotty maybe you can work that statement out!

Maybe Thaiguest is the only (real) gay in the village!

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2007/01/24/lbritain2main_070124041506397_wideweb__300x456.jpg

[Beachlover]

in trooped a half dozen middle aged American women (the hair was a dead giveaway) who settled down and arranged themselves quite clearly as a viewing gallery with little conversation and not much in the way of smiles between them....They didn't break anything, but they didn't help my mood and I moved on earlier than I might have.
Your post sounds more mature and objective than others so you might already realise this, but if all they were doing is sitting there (not yelling out abuse) then I think the issue is more your reaction to their presence than their actual behaviour...

We all have to tolerate stuff we don't 100% like... that's part of life. Something that some members here can't tolerate.


A lot of bars in the old days had signs that read ""All Nations Welcome But Carrie". Maybe a newer gay version could be "All Women Welcome But the Wrong Ones".
The real question is HOW does this group of women DIFFER from any other type of person this forum complains about, other than the fact you personally dislike them?

How are women different from the Russians, the Mainland Chinese, the Indians, the farang who like to humiliate and fondle the boys' private parts in public, the Arabs or any other undesirable type? It's kind of like the Army trying to justify their discrimination against gay people. There's no fair and rational way to justify it.


Anyone with common sense knows I speak for a definite majority but thanks for the confirmation anyway.
The poll isn't terribly scientific but since you're using it to back up your point, you should point out that only a measly 16% of responders said they would boycott bars allowing women in. And only 37% said they MIGHT avoid patronising bars that welcome women. Doesn't sound like the poll puts you in the majority at all!


Don't expect a representative impression of real gay opinion via this forum
Real gay opinion? Do you mean gay men overall? Or do you mean the small sub-section of the gay population who visit gogo bars and hire money boys? Not saying there's anything wrong with doing that but in most mainstream gay bars and clubs (not commercial sex), most patrons don't care about having women around. They can be good fun.

I don't think there's any publicly fair and acceptable reason to exclude women from gay gogo bars. I think there's simply a segment of commercial sex venue attendees who dislike having women around in their gogo bars because they have personal emotional issues with women and feel self conscious being themselves around them. If a bar wants to cater specifically to this segment, then by all means go ahead, but don't make up valid reasons why women should be excluded from all gay venues.

[chillnorth]

There's no fair and rational way to justify it.


Exactly. As my Thai friend would say, "if they want to have a problem up to them." The ultimate choice for me is to stay or go.

I don't find it a whole lot more appealing to sit next to a wreck of a farang who is slobbering on an uncomfortable-looking lad in front of the other boys and customers for 20 baht, though if the lad is attractive it might take a bit longer to finish my drink in disgust and depart.

I didn't read the entire topic, but I've no objections against women in a bar of which we think that it's a gay bar.

First of all: Not every bar with only male hosts or male dancers is a gay bar. We would like to see it that way.
OK, Copa and BBB, Funny and Panorama (for example) are situated in BoyzTown, but they also could be in Walking Street or in the New Naklua Walking Plaza.

Secondly: Approx. 75% of the boys/men working in the host- and gogo-bars aren't gay. They're bi- or hetero-sexual. Allow them to have the pleasure to earn some money in something they REALLY like to do.

Third: If I'm in a so-called gay bar and I can't make up my mind to pick a boy from the stage and one or more famales are entering the venue........the choice will be a lot easier..........all straight guys will act like crazy and can't take their eyes of their potential lucky night. Those guys will be skipped from my possible choice-list.