Good Morning the Gay World in Pattaya
Taking clue from NIrishguy's concern about the BT establishments losing the gay identity, I want to throw a challenge to anyone on this forum to come up with an ideal Business Model to Rebrand/Reinvent/Restructure BT to keep the gay identity yet meet the needs of the changing market conditions and customer preferences.
The best professional idea would win the Author the Gay Nobel Peace Price for year 2012.
Bring it on the the intellectual gay communityarty
jeez, you must be seriously worried about your business if you're looking for advice from posters on an anonymous message board.
I don't know you or your business, but this smacks of desperation. :dontknow:
Hitchhiking's more of a challenge on the road less travelled.
I have recently returned from Pattaya and stayed at Le Cafe Royale for 2 weeks..I had not noticed that it had lost any of its gay identity.When people say Boyztown do they mean just soi 3? I thought that the whole area around soi 3 was Boyztown.I did notice that the Ambiance hotel had a number of very straight guests but so what?
I did not see them around the soi at night and during the day it looks like any other soi.
All the other gay go go bars in the area are all mixed in with straight places so no identity problem there.
I suppose it strange to see a lot of straight people staying in what is considered a very gay hotel but they offered a 50 per cent cut in their rate while I was there and the people that stayed there seemed to be Thai.
Other gay hotels are offering rate cuts as I write this and are not saying that they are gay.Maybe sign of the times.
Another poster asked - is Boyz Town only Soi 3?
As far as I understand, technically it is - but the adjacent Sois are "regarded" by most (except the soi 3 businesses!) as being part of Boyztown.
Anyway, to answer Slave Driver's question - I don't think Boyztown can rebrand/reinvent/restructure - in my view it's dying a slow death and is effectively finished - it has been a gradual decline over the past 10 years especially, and I really believe it's only a matter of time until there are only 3 or 4 "gay" venues left in Boyztown
The bottom line with Copa & Ambiance hotel must be that they have not been attracting sufficient gay clientele and the high tariffs which accompany the pink pound.
Hence, both have repositioned themselves to attract non-gay custom, with the resultant cut-price tariffs which that market expects and demands (another poster suggests price cuts of around 50% are on offer and he is absolutely correct).
Now that these 2 hotels have re-defined their market, it is not going to change and even if the present ownership or management were to change nobody in their right mind would try to turn the clock back.
Le Cafe Royale would be in a perfect position to scoop up the remaining BT gay accommodation trade - were it not for the fact that (the last time I looked - 2011) at least some of the rooms are pretty tired and dated.
As the area attracts more str8 hotel customers, there will start to be pressure put on the surviving gay businesses both by the diminishing number of gay visitors to the area - and of course there will start to be be issues raised by str8 customers over what they will perceive as an "old men and young boys" scene.
So, all in all, I can't really hold out much hope for Boyztown - I think it's well past it's sell-by date and the marketing conversion of Copa and Ambiance hotels could prove to be one of the final nails in the coffin . :crybaby: :crybaby:
It is hard to know what would help Boyztown.
Personally I suspect that international forces, more than anything else are instrumental here. I get the impression that Boyztown attracted a certain type of European and American gay guy in the 80тАЩs, but has been less successful in attracting them since.
In Bangkok, similar forces are at work, but there the gogo bars have made up for lost custom amongst farangs by attracting East Asians.
Pattaya hasn't seemed to have been able to attract that market as much, therefore the shortage of customers.
Another aspect is the rental economics of it. I donтАЩt know the details of it, but I suspect Boyztown is now a lot more expensive to rent a bar in than Jomtien or Sunee. Partly this is because it is nearer the main (straight) tourist area of Walking Street/Beach Road. That means you will be getting investors who will be anxious to make a quick buck by appealing for the straight market rather than the purely gay one. And I am not pointing just at the Ambience here, before anybody gets on their high horse. This might bring in money in the short time, but will degrade the "brand" of Boyztown in the longer term.
A similar thing (being replaced by general tourist facilities/ businesses) is happening in the straight beer bar areas near Beach Road, going by what Stickman says.
From my memory of reading Michael Burchall's book (on the history of Boyztown since the Eighties, amongst other topics) I get the impression that the Soi 13/3 area was an underutilised areas (a bit like Jomtien Plaza today) when he and the other trail-blazers arrived. Presumably that meant that rents were cheap. That opportunity does not exist now. If no gay bar owner is interested in renting a site, it will get snapped up by somebody with an idea for another business. Unfortunately gay businesses tend to be a bit marginal compared to straight ones. It is a common process world over for gay business to move into a rough area of town, gentrify it by attracting in the queens, and then have their gay bars replaced by the like of TGI Fridays and Disney cinemas that the gay bar owners do not have the turnover to compete with.
(Not that I am claiming that Boyztown "gentrified" the Soi 13 area in this instance, but the rental economics of the soi do seem to have changed since 1985)
Another impression I got from reading Burchall's book is that he and some other pioneers were always on the lookout to improve the area, rather than (just) make a quick book. I remember Burchall rented out the upstairs of his bar to a restaurant owner rather cheaply to get a business in there. He and the others started up things like the Pattaya Gay Festival and got sponsorship for the "Boyztown sign.
There does not seem to be that quite sort of optimistic spirit in the gay business owners today. But these things are difficult to organise, I remember that Sunee was trying to organise something similar and it all faded away after one "white party".
One thing that the business owners of Boyztown should NOT do collectively is something that they have been occasionally accused of, which is colluding to keep price up in the gay establishments. I say this not just because I like cheaper prices, but because trying to keep your business "high value added" in that fashion does not work. I appreciate that bar owners might feel that if Boyztown is offering a "premier product" compared to Sunee (and no need for sniping comments here that they are not :blackeye: ) and so may think that the extra custom gained by lower prices is not worth the decrease in profit.
However, the secret there is to work to enhance your brand by having an obviously premier product, investing in your business and charging for it (and being prepared to put up with a hotel with vacancies or a quieter bar for a few years along the way). Any gentlemenтАЩs agreement to keep prices up in an area will only result in some of the short-termist business owners "free-riding" on the system (if everyone is charging 200 baht for a cocktail, why not save money by serving skimpy measures?) and results in people feeling ripped off ("I paid twice the price than Sunee but got the same watered down drink!" fume!).
This creates a backlash.
So, in recap, this posting has actually about what the business owners probably cannot do in the current situation, or should NOT do, rather than having any Gay Nobel proze worthy ideas to save it. Sorry about that, but perhaps this posting will stimulate some further discussion. :dontknow:
Just to add an addenda to my posting above.
1) I do not know if how Michael Burchall portrayed his business strategies in his book is necessarily accurate, before anybody with a different memory of the time chimes in, I was more using MY OWN impressions from reading it as an example than attempting to make definitive statements on his business history.
2) I am not trying to make an angry or definitive claim here that some Boyztrown business collude in pricing, just stating that it is an opinion that is out there and making a dispassionate observation that as a business strategy it is doomed to fail - studies have shown that such a policy, even when used with sincere intentions, such as to try to maintain a "premium brand product" rather than simply gauge customers, it never really works out because of the "free rider problem". Real permium brand, such as the Peninsula Hotel chain, do not obsess over there price compared to the competition.
Wooo. I like the intellectual interaction taking place in this forum. Thanks everyone ..... except the first response ..... ignore
Now let us try to get a Business Model worked out that could keep the gay identity in place yet make the business viable.
How about a gay-stright business synergy?
NOt sure if I can help a lot, but I can tell you what I have seen in some of my travels that worked almost too well so picked it was hard to get another gay guy in. One was local guys that come often pay little or no cover that for the tourists, the local client├иle gives them someone to relate to to talk to to get advise from. Have people ready for people you know are planning to attend. assign a waiter to keep this guy happy, or guys it could be a number of men in drinks and never pushy but available. have set events weekly that people can depend on happening. Hire a few straight guys to do nothing but dance partially bude but dressed enough to keep everyone guessing. They like waiters are expensive to off and only if the boy is willing to go. Then he usual guys with different kids of guys that are willing to mix with the crowd. make them feel welcome. Touch but no messing around until a deal is made. work on boys English skills, maybe invest in them enough the guys can carry one a goo coversation. set a deal with them as they learn they earn more. Make them an asset to you and your guest. VIP rooms work well, if you know there are guys with money help them spend it. an upstairs veranda that is not so loud but loud enough to enjoy And low enough to carry on a real conversation. No big giveaways for the VIP room but boys are provided to help him drink his budget away or spend it on the boys to go home. Invest in your return guest, buy them a drink occasionally. There are people that are on a budget and can't afford all this, your idea is to learn who is who and who comes back regularly every 3 months or so. The ones that drop in nightly try not to loose them to a show in another place. If they think a boy there really likes them they will skip the show for the boy every time. Keep it legal ab dhave fun."The tragedy in life doesn't lie in not reaching your goal. The tradedy lies in having no goal to reach."
All the Best!
Wes
Go Go bar fills up during show time and empties soon after it ends...clue? seen it happen in Pattaya and Bangkok, over and over again.
How about continuous non stop entertainment, like the stock bar in Montreal (continuos stream of boys pole stripping..), or Puchos in Costa Rica (boys dance...and I mean dance...naked on stage..then take breaks and circulate amiongst the crowd).
How about skimply attired waiters....in Budapest they even have naked waiters...
Not everyone wants to sit facing a bar watching listless boys shuffle on the stage.
Not everyone wants to be hassled by annoying mamasans pressurizing you to choose a boy.
Some of us just wanna look at some flesh for the better part of the evening before deciding ...
Simply some ideas that would definitely keep in longer in a venue consuming over priced drinks and dropping BHT50 tips..
Slavedriver, Joe is a good poster and I know he really does mean well. I do believe if businesses are to survive in the Boyztown area three things need to happen but I have told you this before. Businesses need to attract people that want to see something different that are straight but acceptable to everything. Not ooglers or people wanting to make fun but something different that they cannot see at home.
Unfortunately the signs need to come down so that tourists stop walking through Boyztown in large groups etc and oogle at and say "Hey look at the queers". When I sat there, on the porch, I despised that. Other tourists right awy think fag city and do an about face and run. Amusing to watch but not good for your business.
And finally, Soi 3 needs to somehow let the other bars and businesses on Soi's 1 & 2 that they are part of a Boyztown area and not some conceded group of people who think that no one else exists. To allow them, if they want to join meetings and planning and make suggestions.
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