Expats who live in Thailand but have narrow exposure to it

[Beachlover]

An interesting topic was raised on another thread so thought I'd start a new thread instead of dragging that one further off topic.

Got to say, I totally agree with this Brisboy82's statement below.

I don't live in Thailand. I've only visited Thailand a bit over a dozen times and spent total of maybe six months there all up. I have a lot of Thai friends outside Thailand too. I try to learn as much as I can from people who live there and Thais themselves as I do for a lot of countries I explore in Asia.

That's about all I can do without living there. So I accept lots of foreigners - especially those living there - would or should know more about Thailand than me.

But I'm amazed at some of the stuff that gets said by posters on these forums who live there! It indicates their perspective and experience of the country and its people is unbelievably limited and often of the lower end. They have an incredibly narrow exposure to the cross-section of Thai society...

I just think this is quite sad considering Thailand is the country they've chosen to make their home.... what do you think?

Kjun12 is just trying to make himself look like he knows more than others because he presumably lives in Thailand (which doesn't necessarily make one an expert as there's plenty of expats in Thailand who live in such a sheltered sexpat world that they actually know nothing about Thailand and as a whole even after being there for decades. The ignorance of some long term expats is astounding).

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[cdnmatt]

Welcome to Thailand! Exact same thing happens up here too, and that's how many of the expats live. Grab an over-priced condo in the expat area, walking distance to a mega mall, and a bunch of Western style bars and restaurants. Then just live out there lives there, only eat at Western places, goto the bars every night, flirt with the waitresses, hang out with their clicks of farang friends who do the same, etc.

Not that it's a bad thing though, and I can understand it. Lots of these guys are on the older side, and just want to live their lives in peace & comfort, while enjoying good weather & people. They're not interested in learning a new culture, or changing their ways any, which is fine with me. I wouldn't want to do it, but hey, whatever floats their boat. However, it does get on my nerves when they begin dictating life in Thailand and Thai people to me though.

On the flip side, I should mention, there's loads of guys old and young who do the exact opposite. They decide same as Kim and myself, that if you're going to live in Thailand, you should probably go live with the Thais. So they grab a house in a Thai area, grab their food from the street markets instead of Tesco, and simply live basically the same as any Thai family (except usually with alot more money). Besides, it's not like there's any mind blowing differences between how middle class Thais and Westerners live. Or maybe there is, and I'm just so used to it all, I think of it as normal now. These type of expats obviously, you generally don't see when you're just visiting. For example, if someone came for a trip to KK, there's a about a 0.005% chance they would see me.

The one pet peeve I have though is the people who live here, but don't put any effort into learning Thai. I've met people who have lived here for 25 years, and still can't even tell the time in Thai yet. We all complain about immigrants in our home countries who can't speak English, but we supposedly get a free pass because we're farangs and this is Thailand, or something? If you're going to live in a foreign country for the long-term, then at least put the effort in to learn the language.

wow how very intersting is that ... congrats matt ... you finally have nothing to moan about with the thai people now ... (stopped shitting on your floors have they??)
so decide to moan about expats instead ... why dont you cut the pretence and admit you dont like living there and go home ... if you was anymore plastic im sure the sun would start to melt you :violent1:

Matt has a point though - as a 2 week tourist there's little shame in eating at Sizzler or McDonald every night and drinking nothing other than Budweiser.

If however you have made the choice to relocate to Thailand permanently - some committment to adaptation and integration might be reasonably expected.

:occasion9:

[adman5000]

I can identify with both ends of the spectrum. For the person who wants to (and mentally can) live their culture I congratulate them. For the person who says f*** it, I want to live here, but do it my way, I also understand a bit.

Each time I visit Thailand, there is one key background question that I am constantly evaluating- тАЬWould I enjoy living here.тАЭ I do not yet have a clear answer to this question. I can find an area with good weather, it is certainly affordable, good medical, seems to be a never-ending supply of handsome guys, and I can eat Thai food most days. But can I mentally adapt?. I feel a lot of it depends on which end of the above spectrum I adopt.

For me personally, I would have to learn more of the language. I can manage with a bar boy or taxi driver who knows no English, but I still miss out on a lot of words. This trip I stayed several weeks in a guesthouse with a Thai family that spoke no English and I did ok, but would have felt much less isolated if I spoke some Thai.

I also find myself becoming more sensitive to being mentally or verbally pointed out as the farang, and would love to interact with a more comprehensive command of Thai. The people are so delighted when they hear me speak Thai and kindly tell me I speak it well. I know they are being generous.

I very rarely speak with another farang. This trip I did speak with a non-English farang who also spoke English and was visiting the family of his Thai wife. He badly needed to speak with another farang! I also spoke to a farang bar-owner several times, who seemed to mainly depend on his Thai manager. The rest of the time I spent speaking with the Thai people. Many of those wanted to practice English and with some, I just wanted to practice my Thai.

I concluded, that I would feel much more at ease if I spoke more Thai. So I plan to read one of the messages I saw about anotherтАЩs very detailed approach to learning Thai.. I liked some of his logic and will take a closer look at his post. I bought a book used to teach younger ages English, that is written also in Thai and organized by types of functional language of how to accomplish various everyday things, and I plan to use that as well.

I love learning the cultural aspects and although I appreciate the differences, I still find myself irked by certain things that are different than I am used to. For example:

Do any of the Thai women actually know where the f*** they are going? I must admit, rather than adopt the calm approach of changing my own direction and stepping by them; stop suddenly in front of me, and you will likely get stepped on. I want to get a T-shirt that says in Thai тАЬThis bus does not stop for pedestrians!тАЭ

Do you walk to the right or the left or not give a f***. If the Thai people, canтАЩt decide, I have adopted the later approach.

Please donтАЩt invite me to a Thai event, I simply donтАЩt have the patience. I canтАЩt listen to something I donтАЩt understand which seems to go on for hours. I especially donтАЩt like to do this in a tropical heat and humidity in full sun. Also, my legs donтАЩt bend the way yours do! But my fat ass does help when sitting on what they claim is a mat.

Who exactly is going to look at all the f***ing pictures we are taking?

Does anyone ever repair these sidewalks, make the curb height consistent, or think about how to make do with less steps in the movie theaters and bathrooms rather than more? YouтАЩre f***ed if youтАЩre handicapped in Thailand.

Is there a Thai word for тАЬplan aheadтАЭ or is it truly a foreign concept? Maybe this one is driven by the Buddhist focus on the present and a day to day existence given their own economic reality.

Oh well, I guess I will continue to learn Thai and adapt to their cultural norms to see if I can live there. :happy7: That is unless, I just loose my patience and say f*** it. :violent1:

[cdnmatt]

some committment to adaptation and integration might be reasonably expected.

Only if you want people to treat you like a human.

I also find myself becoming more sensitive to being mentally or verbally pointed out as the farang

Live in Thailand longer. Trust me, that goes away. And don't worry, they're not saying anything bad. At least I've never heard anyone say anything that'd hurt my feelings. For example, sometimes at the market I'll hear some laughing jeers over the fact I buy my dogs 200 baht worth of food for dinner (unheard of here, any why everyone wants to pawn their pups off on me), but they hardly mean that in a negative way.

I've come to learn that whole negative inclination thing is a Western concept, and not worldwide. In the West, if someone says something you don't understand, you just naturally assume it's negative, whereas here... I don't know what people think of it... nothing, really. Not good, not bad, and just talking.

I concluded, that I would feel much more at ease if I spoke more Thai. So I plan to read one of the messages I saw about anotherтАЩs very detailed approach to learning Thai.. I liked some of his logic and will take a closer look at his post. I bought a book used to teach younger ages English, that is written also in Thai and organized by types of functional language of how to accomplish various everyday things, and I plan to use that as well.

Only problem I find with this is, it's not how people talk. Things are good now, so I decided it was time to begin learning Thai again, and I went through two teachers in a week. They were both adamant about teaching from a book, and I was adamantly opposed of it. I already know what's in the book, don't need to learn it again, and besides, that's not how Thai people talk. Same as us. They don't say, "today, I will go home at 5 o'clock". No, they say, "yeah, I'll probably head home around 5", or whatever. Learning from books can teach you the basics, but not how to talk to Thais in day-to-day environment, and have a cordial bullshit with someone in Thai.

Is there a Thai word for тАЬplan aheadтАЭ or is it truly a foreign concept?

Foreign concept. For example, they buy their food for every meal. There's none of this stocking up for two weeks bullshit like in the West. Actually, when I grew up, we'd just buy half a cow at a time, and be good for 4 months. Not happening here. I even get laughs from people at the market. I guess they don't think I understand what they're saying, but every once in a while I'll hear, "see, farangs do eat alot! look, he's eating 6 chicken breasts for himself tonight!". Well, geez, they're not all for me, and they're not all for tonight. Depending on my mood, sometimes I'll chime in, and joke around with them.

Speaking of that, I have to goto the market, so will end this here.

[a447]

cdnmatt wrote:

Foreign concept. For example, they buy their food for every meal. There's none of this stocking up for two weeks bullshit like in the West.

Foreign concept? People in France and Japan go to the market every day and, from my experience, also don't keep much in the fridge. I was under the impression that going to the market every day was a social event for a lot of people, especially in Asia. Also the not stocking up thing is a result of people in the past not having electicity, I assume.

Matt has a point though - as a 2 week tourist there's little shame in eating at Sizzler or McDonald every night and drinking nothing other than Budweiser.

If however you have made the choice to relocate to Thailand permanently - some committment to adaptation and integration might be reasonably expected.

:occasion9:

i agree with you scotty .. if i was to move to thailand or anywhere else in the world im sure i would go out of my way to learn the lingo ... but i can assure you i wouldnt be walking around listening to all the other farang to see what language they where speaking ... then getting upset if it wasnt the local language..
i really woundnt give a flying fook about the others ... let alone get my knickers in a twist about it ..
still if thats all that people have to keep them busy thru the day then good luck to them.

[neoncrusade]

But I'm amazed at some of the stuff that gets said by posters on these forums who live there! It indicates their perspective and experience of the country and its people is unbelievably limited and often of the lower end. They have an incredibly narrow exposure to the cross-section of Thai society...

Why is that a surprise? How many of us can say that we expose ourselves to the cross section of society in our own countries? I don't try and mix with the upper classes here in England (they would look down their noses at me if I dared to try) and I wouldn't particularly want to go to my local council estate and try to act like 'one of the lads'.

As for learning the language, doesn't that depend or where in Thailand someone chooses to settle?

For instance, two weeks before christmas I went to Paris for a long weekend, and I had more trouble there as a non French speaker than I have ever had in Bangkok or Pattaya as a non Thai speaker.

[Beachlover]

But I'm amazed at some of the stuff that gets said by posters on these forums who live there! It indicates their perspective and experience of the country and its people is unbelievably limited and often of the lower end. They have an incredibly narrow exposure to the cross-section of Thai society...

Why is that a surprise? How many of us can say that we expose ourselves to the cross section of society in our own countries? I don't try and mix with the upper classes here in England (they would look down their noses at me if I dared to try) and I wouldn't particularly want to go to my local council estate and try to act like 'one of the lads'.

Good point! But you missed something...

I would say yes, most people are NOT regularly exposed to a broad cross section of society in their own countries. Most don't regularly mix with classes outside their own. But at least they're AWARE there ARE other segments of society outside their own! They probably know a bit about them and have SOME exposure to them too.

The difference between that and these expats I'm referring to in Thailand is the expats (not all, just the type referred to in the OP) aren't even AWARE of the other segments of Thai society, which they don't regularly mix with! They live in this little bubble and assume all Thais are like the ones they hang out with. Sometimes, the oblivious comments they make are almost offensive!

As for learning the language, doesn't that depend or where in Thailand someone chooses to settle?

I didn't say anything about language in the OP but will comment... I reckon Thailand is one of the easier countries to get around with English and not learning the local language in Asia... but if you were choosing to make the country your home, it makes sense to learn the local language they all speak. I think not doing so would say something about you as a person.