The Brink of War?

[Moses]

August 2014, tens killed, phosphorus bombs, bombed hospital and living area, family with kids killed by soldiers right in own car at time of evacuation.

If you change the date to February to May, 2022, this comment would refer to the Russian Federation's targeting of civilian sites in Chernihiv, etc.

So, tell me - what was early: 2014 or 2022?

And where was your tongue from 2014 till Feb 24 2022? These videos are on YouTube since 2014. Where was all Western tongues?

And now West cooperates with Nazi, supply them with weaponry, moneys. Shame!

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[Moses]

Everything started in 2014 - from nationalists coup:

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Coup has been inspired and supported by US:

Nuland in Kiev, 2014

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Biden in Kiev, in chair of speaker of parliament, 2014:

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[Dragonman]

So, tell me - what was early: 2014 or 2022?

And where was your tongue from 2014 till Feb 24 2022? These videos are on YouTube since 2014. Where was all Western tongues?

And now West cooperates with Nazi, supply them with weaponry, moneys. Shame!

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Your responses are becoming increasingly wilder, almost hysterical and, as usual, you drag in something new that is supposed to answer your own questions. I could ask you "Where your tongue was between 2014 and 2022?" I do not recall any postings on the subject by you until this thread began.

Pictures of people marching don't mean the national government or the majority of the population support them. Right-wing candidates for the Ukrainian parliament in the last election gained around 2% of the vote!! Ukraine does have a far right like most countries of the world have, but both their organizational strength and electoral support are smaller than in many other European countries, including in Russia (using the commonly accepted meaning of the term)!

I have already stated that I (and many others) don't accept the peculiarly Russian new definition of "Nazi," and your repeated use of the term will not convince me that it is accurate. There have existed at least 12 Russian far right Neo-Nazi parties, including both the Russian National Unity party (now officially banned) and Oprichny Dvor which used a Nazi swastika or other swastika form on their flags. The fact these parties ever existed (legally or clandestinely) indicates that Russia has its own neo-Nazi problem - in the old sense of the word. I don't see you writing about them.

Let me quote comments by your own esteemed leader views on the Ukrainian situation in 2021. . They are from an article he wrote in response to a question on his annual Direct Line Q&A program in that year.

"ON THE HISTORICAL UNITY OF RUSSIANS AND UKRAINIANS, By Vladimir Putin (2021) (https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/On_th...nd_Ukrainians; https://web.archive.org/web/20211210...ent/news/66181).

During the recent Direct Line, when I was asked about Russian-Ukrainian relations, I said that Russians and Ukrainians were one people – a single whole. These words were not driven by some short-term considerations or prompted by the current political context. It is what I have said on numerous occasions and what I firmly believe. I therefore feel it necessary to explain my position in detail and share my assessments of today’s situation. .....

First of all, I would like to emphasize that the wall that has emerged in recent years between Russia and Ukraine, between the parts of what is essentially the same historical and spiritual space, to my mind is our great common misfortune and tragedy. These are, first and foremost, the consequences of our own mistakes made at different periods of time. ....

The throne of Kiev held a dominant position in Ancient Rus. This had been the custom since the late 9th century. The Tale of Bygone Years captured for posterity the words of Oleg the Prophet about Kiev, “Let it be the mother of all Russian cities.“ ....

Russia is open to dialogue with Ukraine and ready to discuss the most complex issues. But it is important for us to understand that our partner is defending its national interests but not serving someone else's, and is not a tool in someone else's hands to fight against us.
We respect the Ukrainian language and traditions. We respect Ukrainians' desire to see their country free, safe and prosperous. .....

Today, these words may be perceived by some people with hostility. They can be interpreted in many possible ways. Yet, many people will hear me. And I will say one thing – Russia has never been and will never be “anti-Ukraine”. And what Ukraine will be – it is up to its citizens to decide. "

Note the last sentence - "And what Ukraine will be – it is up to its citizens to decide." In Putin's own words, it is not up to Russian citizens to decide what Ukraine will be.

And as is well-known, Putin is famed for meaning what he writes and says - until he doesn't.

I should point out that Oleg the Prophet is a semi-legendary figure, and what it is claimed he said is in a citation in the 12th century Primary Chronicle. In fact, what he is supposed to have said was "Kyiv was called the “mother of the Rus' cities.” The “mother of cities” is a loan translation from Greek word “metropolis,” which denoted a capital city. So this expression really means that Kyiv was the capital of Rus', not Russia - which didn't then exist. Modern Russia descends from the 13th century Grand Principality of Moscow, one of several successors of Rus' state. Kyiv was founded in 482, and "Ukraine" was first used in reference to a part of the territory of Kievan Rus' in 1187. The name "Moscow" doesn't appear until 1147 in the Russian Chronicles, when prince Yuri Dolgorukiy called upon his brother, the prince of the Novgorod-Severski to "come to me, brother, to Moscow." As Yuri didn't fortify Moscow with wooden walls and a moat.in 1156, it was probably not a very important place. Ukraine has no less claims to Rus' heritage than modern Russia.

By the way, when I tried to open your attachment in the posting beginning "Everything started in 2014 - from nationalists coup:" they didn't open. So I will ignore it.

[Moses]

Your responses are becoming increasingly wilder, almost hysterical

only in your dreams, dear...

but I understand your confuse: it is hard to explain why bombing in 2022 is bad and in 2014 - is good (if it is bad, where was your tongue then all 8 years?), moreover - you see Nazi marching by Ukrainian streets, you see Nazi in Ukrainian army, and must give good explanation why your minority supports Nazi, who started that war.

Shame on US and EU, shame on Nazi supporters. Full responsibility for ongoing war in on US, who inspired and supported nationalists coup in Kiev in 2014.

Now you may watch results, and don't tell me, what you don't see SS and other Nazi emblems on uniform:

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[Dragonman]

only in your dreams, dear...

but I understand your confuse: it is hard to explain why bombing in 2022 is bad and in 2014 - is good (if it is bad, where was your tongue then all 8 years?), moreover - you see Nazi marching by Ukrainian streets, you see Nazi in Ukrainian army, and must give good explanation why your minority supports Nazi, who started that war.

Shame on US and EU, shame on Nazi supporters. Full responsibility for ongoing war in on US, who inspired and supported nationalists coup in Kiev in 2014.

Now you may watch results, and don't tell me, what you don't see SS and other Nazi emblems on uniform:

DVTJYGUXkAci4nA.jpg


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And where was your tongue for the last 8 years?

I can see the Ukrainian flags and the German Nazi emblems on uniforms.

BUT, as you don't show the sources of the images you post, I can only assume that they come from a Russian propaganda film produced by either of the KGB's main successors - the FSB (Federal Security Service of the Russian Federation) and the SVR (Foreign Intelligence Service), given Putin's membership of both the KGB and the FSB. Or they were staged for Russian media.

I did a Google search for the last year for "funerals of ukrainian soldiers with nazi symbols" (https://www.google.com/search?q=fune...w=1519&bih=667) and found no such images.

[dab69]

Old Google News not factoring all the big new Russian "mortuary money"
and body fertilizer profits?

[Dax]

Dragonman, I for one, have to say, your responses to Moses have always been on-point and very concise. I enjoy your debating skills and am impressed with your thoroughness in separating fact from fiction. Thank you very much for helping to clear the air and setting the record straight.

[Moses]

I did a Google search for the last year for "funerals of ukrainian soldiers with nazi symbols" (https://www.google.com/search?q=fune...w=1519&bih=667) and found no such images.

For sure it is proof.

Why you just don't copy image to https://tineye.com you will easy find proof of existence - photos are from funeral of 3 of members Nazi Galicia SS division. Event was in 2014 at time of Maidan at West of Ukraine. There were a lot of angry posts in Twitter from Poland about this event.

For convenience here is big report in Chinese https://chaoglobal.wordpress.com/2014/02/28/19442014/

Also copyrights at the left bottom corner shows source Pavlo Palomarchuk (author) / Galinfo news agency from West of Ukraine https://galinfo.com.ua/

You again wrote disinformation and ideas from own mind.

[Moses]

Today EU made most funny declaration about Ukraine. https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/p...ian-territory/

The European Union strongly condemns any attempts by Russia to replace democratically elected and legitimate Ukrainian administrations.

Let me remind you coup what EU calls "democratic elections"

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[Andy]

DVTJYGUXkAci4nA.jpg

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It is very shameful to publish here this obvious fake with nazi symbols.