Political debate

[cdnmatt]

Unless all the media news is skewed and "fake news" what we're seeing in the West is Russian people who take pride in their homeland, but they're tired of being controlled by a dictator. Simple as that. I'm all in favor of Russians getting what they want - and what they deserve. Then maybe, just maybe, our countries can start working together instead of against each other for the benefit of the planet...not solely for the benefit of the Ruling Class.

I really shouldn't be posting this, because it's guaranteed to illicit a "see, see, tol you so, see, the West sucks, meh meh meh" response from Moses, but nonetheless, this is kind of pertinent:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeF2rkyxDIo

I think it's a good video at least.

[Moses]

Suggesting that the President of the Russian Federation (or, Supreme Ruler, as Putin has proposed) may have been involved in Nemtcov's murder plot is quite a statement, but one we've heard repeatedly in the West.

Seeing as Navalny is Putin's most vocal critic, a lot of people in the West think it's possible that Putin was behind his murder plot as well. When Navalny survived being poisoned "unexpectedly", and was tossed in prison for 2-1/2 years under Putin's orders, it was just the icing on the cake.

According to detailed articles published in every major news outlet in the world,, millions of Russian's (if not tens of millions) also believe that Putin was behind this. Maybe they're all as biased and confused as we are in the West??? Or. maybe Putin is really a murderer and needs to be removed from office. Only the people of Russia know.

Before suggesting that others are being naïve, you really should take a step back and look at life through a larger set of lenses. Listen to what your own Russian people are saying right now....not Putin and his oligarchs, but "The People".

1. Navalnyiy already been in jail at least 4 times. Why Putin need 5th time to kill him?
Once more time: Navalniy is nationalist and that gives him zero chance to be "leader of protests" at is written in Western medias. Nobody except marginals (read: nationalists and ultras) will follow him. Last winter protests changed numbers: now not 50% but 56% of nation don't like him and don't trust him in Russia.

2. "According to medias" twice more "millions of Russian's (if not tens of millions) also believe" what Navalniy poisoned himself

Read this https://translate.google.com/transla...instsenirovkoy it is ready URL to google translation about Navalniy poisoning. Meduza.io - is most known website of opposition here. 30% of Russian think poisoning was staged by Navalniy. And only 15% of Russians think it is Putin behind scene.

3. That I say to you: listen Russians instead of reading fake propaganda. 56% of Russians don't like Navalniy, 19% like him, 12% have no opinion, 13% don't know who is Navalniy. Now you have view "at life through a larger set of lenses"

https://translate.google.com/transla...eya-navalnogo/ - latest public opinions (Feb'21)

The approval level of Alexei Navalny has remained unchanged since September 2020 (19% versus 20% in September). The level of disapproval has grown and now stands at 56% (in September - 50%).

[Dodger]

1. Navalnyiy already been in jail at least 4 times. Why Putin need 5th time to kill him?

Possible Answer: Navalny won't quit - he has tens of millions of followers - and has become Putin's number 1 nightmare.

I don't mean to suggest that the majority of Russians wanted Navolny to return to Russia, but that he has a very strong following in Russia and has become a serious threat to Putin according to what the newspapers are saying. Including Russia's Meduza which you provided a link to. ( I don't pay much attention to polling data)

As far as what we read sometimes being "propaganda", I couldn't agree with you more. How does anyone know if what they're reading is factual or not anymore. Most media sources have become so biased and untrustworthy in their reporting that a person has better odds flipping a coin...doing 3 "Hail Mary's"....and tossing a dart at a wall, to get anywhere close to understanding the chess moves that any of our countries are making. Just take a look at CNN and FOX news in the U.S. sometimes. It's a joke.

As I mentioned before, I've never had any burning desire to understand what goes on in Russia, but wish you guys the best.

Growing up in Chicago with a hockey stick in my hands, the only thing I cared about was the game of hockey. Watching Mike Eruzioni score the winning goal against the Russian Team at the 1980 Olympics' in Lake Placid was the single best moment in my life. Not because I took pleasure is seeing the Russian team lose, but because I took pleasure in seeing my team win. Both teams earned the respect of the world for their gamesmanship, and the players on both teams showed tremendous respect for each other as they left the ice that night. Hockey players don't give a flying fuck about politics, they just love the game.

[Nirish guy]

Hockey players don't give a flying fuck about politics, they just love the game.

Oh come ON......if EVER there was a case for them not giving a flying PUCK then surely this was it !!

[Moses]

but that he has a very strong following in Russia and has become a serious threat to Putin according to what the newspapers are saying

No. Western medias describes he "has very strong following in Russia"... by fact he has some following of ultras and nationalists...

one again:
56% "I do not trust to Navalniy"
19% "I do trust to Navalniy"
12% "I do not know to whom to trust"
13% "who is Navalniy?"

[Dodger]

No. Western medias describes he "has very strong following in Russia"... by fact he has some following of ultras and nationalists...

You're definitely in a position to know more about this than I do. So it sounds like Navalny isn't as popular as we (in the West) are being led to believe.

I would really appreciate understanding something directly from a Russians perspective if you don't mind taking the time:

Question #1: Are the majority of Russians content with the way the government is running under Putin's rule, or do they want change?

The perception in the West is that the majority of Russians want change due to poor living standards, understanding that a drop in oil prices, and sanctions imposed on it by the West are contributing factors. Is this true, or just western hype?

Question # 2: Why does Putin have so much hatred and contempt for the U.S.?

The perception in the West is that Putin is both, power-hungry, and extremely jealous of the U.S, and wants to take over as many countries as he can to build strength...so that one day he can replace the U.S. as a leading power.

Your own personal perspective on this would be greatly appreciated.

[Moses]

Question #1: Are the majority of Russians content with the way the government is running under Putin's rule, or do they want change?

The perception in the West is that the majority of Russians want change due to poor living standards, understanding that a drop in oil prices, and sanctions imposed on it by the West are contributing factors. Is this true, or just western hype?

Yes, it is. And I told it many times already.
Here are few main mistakes:

1. majority is on Putin's side - after first 6 month of his president job in 2000 when his support was below 50% yet, since that time his support in Russia never was below 50%, usually it was within 55-65%, and after Crimea he got unbelievable 86%. It is counted by independent agency Levada - the only whole Russia global agency here, also Gallup few times confirmed numbers: refrigerators at Russian homes voting for Putin.

2. It isn't "Putin's government". Since 2000 here changed 5 or 6 governments already and 5 or 6 PMs.

3. "Poor living standards" about speaking Western medias are now 5-6 times higher than at time of Putin got power. Also they aren't that poor as it usually describes in Western medias. Moscow ambulance for example rated #3 best in World, Russia has one of fastest internet network - by law every town with population above 500 ppl must has fiberoptic channel (and they really do it even in taiga and tundra). Road network is rapidly growing, high speed railroad network is growing even faster.
Any citizen may request any state service from his phone or computer at state portal of service with catalogue over 500 services 140 of them are federal and other are regional. For example how I got new travel passport: a) login, fill request and upload photo, b) receive text wit time of appointment in 5 days, c) visit immigration police and get ready passport in 5 minutes after they recorded my biometry to the chip in front of me. We don't need to visit burocrates for to get service.
Moscow medical system is example for other regions and state of art, also it is free. Here you can visit any doctor in any 700+ clinics after making appointment via application on the phone. Usually for family doctor you have to wait 1 day, for surgeon it may take 2 days. Complicated tests like MRT or CT you may wait up to 1 month - by law any medical service must be done within 30 days. Doctor what you will choose will have all your medical records at time of your visit on the screen of his computer - healthcare server will allow to read them shortly before your visit.
Within "poor standards" we here already have 3 vaccines and free vaccination without waiting.
I saw German newspaper where was article about precise timing of Russian transport in comparation with German Railway.
So... pictures what are in your mind about poor living standards are quite false.

4. Sanctions. It is pure propaganda. There are no sanctions against whole Russia, and sanctions against persons or companies doesn't touch Russians. Who cares about sanctions against chief of FSB? Or lawmaker? Only him and his family. Take any sanction, for example for Crimean bridge: 9 persons and 5 companies. And so on. All you listen about "sanctions are working" or "sanctions are serious and strict" - are propaganda for your ears. Trading turnover with any (!) of Western country and Russia is growing. Where else Boing will get titanium for his aircrafts or NASA rocket engines for Atlas rocket? How did you said? "Sanctions"? All German submarines after 2005 are equipped with Russian navigation system. Thank you GLONASS.

5. Oil. Yes. Failed prices gave some problem to Russia, esp. in 2014-2015 when Russia wasn't ready. Since that time GDP is growing. Centralized govt economic demonstrated her strong side at time of virus: GDP here failed in 2020 only 3,8%. Compare for example with German 6.5%.

Question # 2: Why does Putin have so much hatred and contempt for the U.S.?

The perception in the West is that Putin is both, power-hungry, and extremely jealous of the U.S, and wants to take over as many countries as he can to build strength...so that one day he can replace the U.S. as a leading power.

It was Obama's mistake. Once he was very rude in his speech about Russia and Putin. If I'm not wrong in 2008. Something like "regional country what manufacturing nothing, where nobody wants to live". Obama was quite stupid. Even Western medias laugh about that passage. At that time Russia already was within world TOP-10 economics, was grain, gas, platinum and titanium supplier #1. Also Russia was #3 by netto migration into country in world. West tried to cover this Obama's stupid words by inviting Russia into G7. But it was too late.

About "to take over as many countries as he can". He does the same US or China does. Making alliances, gaining influence. Putin got "Men of the year" in Time, "World most powerful politic" in Forbes 4 years. At past USSR was second power in world. Now Putin has Russia within 4 most powerful countries in world: US, China, Germany and Russia. Second powerful army in world. One of 3 nations which got soil from the Moon or has space station. One of 3 with own fully completed global navigation system.

By the way: Biden just did even more stupid thing by calling Putin "murder'. Yes, I understand what Biden is in age when he does not understand what he is saying and don't remember where he is, but there are a lot of advisers around. I saw this scene few days ago when Biden appears and front of journalists and then asking adviser "Ron with whom and what I should talk here?"

Now Biden looks even more stupid than Obama: he call president of another country "murder" (showing disrespect to nation which elected this president) and in a few days inviting this president to meeting about climate and showing by this what he has no principles and is ready to work with murder. President must be diplomat. Biden isn't.

[Dodger]

Moses,

Thank you for taking the time to share your perspective.

Based on some of the things you said, I took the time to research some of the Meduza articles, as well as other Russian news sources for topics related to Russia’s economy/quality of life, etc. and found it interesting.

I have no doubt that Russia has made good progress on many fronts over the years, and I’m really impressed with the Healthcare System. There’s nothing better than “free”, even if there is a short waiting line.

Meduza ranks Russian Quality of Life Standards (QLS) as being either average - or slightly above average, where Forbes (U.S.) shows Russia has being below average in almost all QLS criteria being measured. Forbes goes on to say that Russia ranks lower than almost all developing countries, including Mexico.

Wow…there must be a UFO hovering overhead: A Russian news outlet ranks Russian QLS as Average. And a major U.S. news outlet ranks Russia as Below Average using the very same criteria. What’s a reader supposed to do, add the two together and divide by 2 to get the correct answer?

Reality:

If you want a Russian perspective on Russian economy, read a Russian newspaper. If you want a western perspective on Russian economy, read a western newspaper. Do you want to know what the odds are of “little people” like us actually getting the honest facts by relying solely on their Country’s news media?.…about ZERO!

What do many people do when they don’t understand this discrepancy in news media reporting, and don’t like what they’re reading and/or hearing? They call it “Propaganda”. It’s human nature. Nobody likes being wrong.

Round and round and round we go, and where she stops, nobody knows.

Cheers

[dinagam]

It is better to have a bear-riding leader than one who is very fond of getting very close to young girls in public and touching them inappropriately.