The modern gay heretic

[Nirish guy]

Disappointing though that gay men who have no doubt experienced plently of hardship themselves over the years find it difficult to be tolerant of someone elses life and the hardships that they have gone through over their sexuality or gender when that persons choices or very existence for that matter has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on their actual life.

OK - cue the "well they're not woman and I dont care what anyone says' brigade to spark up.

My position, if someone's not hurting me I'm happy to live and let live and accept them as they wish to be accepted - who are WE to judge. And us especially all I'm sure know plently of transexual / lady boys etc who are all WAY more feminine that half the women we know so you'd think that would give us a head start on the whole acceptance thing, perhaps not it seems.

[arsenal]

No NIrish, we are in agreement. They are free to live any life they choose. But I don't have to agree that they are in fact, women.. They are not.

[Khor tose]

As I said, everyone is entitled to their own rich fantasy life - but they’re not entitled to insist that we share their fantasies.

True, none of us ever HAS to believe a fantasy, but we do. I can take a cheap shot and mention people who believe in religion and how we mostly tolerate them, as in many places they are in the majority, and they tolerate those of us who do not share their fantasy.

Can we call it manners? How about saying it is in the spirit of live and let live. I can think of a very few people I have ever met who did not have fantasies. Older women and men who so long to be young again that they dress and act like they are 20 when they are past 40. Young teens who want to be adult and don’t cut it. Often, men and women in bed fantasize (Ahhh for the times my partner is young DiCaprio and I am Schwarzenegger.) Others who believe they are charming, and they are not. Others who fantasize they are smart and clever, and are really so dumb to be funny---unless they are your boss. On and on and on, we all have fantasies, and like it or not we learn to live with, not only our fantasies, but to tolerate the fantasies of others, so why not Transgender people? Especially why not transgender people from a group that has suffered greatly from the intolerance of others?

My partner and I live in Seattle, and Seattle (The Emerald City) has one of the largest populations of transgender people in the US. Ingersoll- a pioneering transgender center-- is located here and there are nearly a hundred plus transgender services in Seattle. Every year two to three hundred plus transgender people hold a convention in the small coastal city of Port Angeles, and having attended one of their conventions with my partner, I can attest that they do a lot of good and the city of Port Angeles loves them, and turn out in force each year to welcome them.

What it is, is simple as can be. People are people, Knowing a lot of transgender people I can say without any problem that they are no better than anyone else, and they are no worse. What they are, is people who have a different fantasy then the fantasies you may have. Are they hurting anyone? Do they scare the horses? Okay some of them might. (A joke the way you might kid anyone.)

Gays have traveled far on the path of civil liberties in my lifetime. Please everyone, please, let us not be the people who say we got ours and to hell with everyone else. If some people are happy as another sex and it does no harm we should not only learn to acknowledge their fantasy, but to support it in the same polite way we support the fantasies of others. Acceptance is not necessary but courtesy, politeness, or manners, or whatever you call it is important. I sure hope the gay population does not forget what it is like to be hated for something you feel you cannot help being..

[cdnmatt]

My position, if someone's not hurting me I'm happy to live and let live and accept them as they wish to be accepted - who are WE to judge. And us especially all I'm sure know plently of transexual / lady boys etc who are all WAY more feminine that half the

Ditto. It's not like trans people don't have enough on their plate to worry about without having to deal with a bunch of immature adults throwing frantic tantrums because a guy is wearing a dress. They have enough to deal with in rgards to their sexuality without society piling on top just cause.

It's not like they wake up one day as teenagers and think to themselves, "I know, I'm going to become a woman just to piss mom and dad off". I'm not trans or anything, but I'm pretty sure that's not how it works. They're going to go through a self-acceptance phase with or without the help of society, so kind of makes sense to just live and let live.

Wasn't that long ago being gay got you thrown in jail, and still does in many places.

[StevieWonders]

Typical American psychobabble, Khor tose

[StevieWonders]

Ditto. It's not like trans people don't have enough on their plate to worry about without having to deal with a bunch of immature adults throwing frantic tantrums because a guy is wearing a dress. They have enough to deal with in rgards to their sexuality without society piling on top just cause.

You’re confusing gender and sexuality - they are two different things. As for men in frocks using the women’s bathroom - I don’t use it myself so I don’t care who uses it. Selfish of me, I know. However if I were a woman who’d been sexually assaulted I just might be concerned that ANY man who chose could “identify as” a woman and occupy my previously “safe space”.

[cdnmatt]

You’re confusing gender and sexuality - they are two different things. As for men in frocks using the women’s bathroom - I don’t use it myself so I don’t care who uses it. Selfish of me, I know. However if I were a woman who’d been sexually assaulted I just might be concerned that ANY man who chose could “identify as” a woman and occupy my previously “safe space”.

Can you please link to some sources where a woman was sexually assaulted / raped in a bathroom by a male dressed as a woman?

Maybe I'm wrong, but I haven't heard of any cases at least. Seems like a fear based argument, much like the whole, "if we let gays marry, then what's next? people marrying their dogs?".

[StevieWonders]

Can you please link to some sources where a woman was sexually assulated / raped in a bathroom by a male dressed as a woman?

Maybe I'm wrong, but I haven't heard of any cases at least. Seems like a fear based argument, much like the whole, "if we let gays marry, then what's next? people marring their dogs?".

I for one would be perfectly happy to have unisex bathrooms provided that the women didn’t get in the way of the anonymous sex that goes on in every well-regulated male public lavatory. However think of the outcry from some of the regular sex tourists here when they encounter women in a male gogo bar. Pass the smelling salts.

As for whether the fear of sexual assault in women’s bathrooms from men in drag is justified, perhaps you should ask a woman - say someone from #BlackFrocksMatter

[gerefan2]

Can you please link to some sources where a woman was sexually assaulted / raped in a bathroom by a male dressed as a woman?
Maybe I’m wrong but I haven’t heard of any cases
.

You need to get out more Matt.

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc...diego/1991173/

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/20...-reported-nic/

[cdnmatt]

Here's another way to look at this whole thing. Take a look at the number of ladyboys in Thailand, and it's quite obvious there's proportionately way more than in Western countries. Why is that? Are Thais just genetically predisposed to being trans, or is it it's culturally more accepted in Thailand?

It's obviously the latter, which means there's probably a whole lot more trans people in Western societies than we currently realize, but many just remain in the closet. So which is more harmful to society? Never ending barrage of ridicult and shaming of trans folk that pushes many of them into being lowlife drug addicts who suffer mental health issues, or pissing off some soccer moms and religious zealots because we're not living by what they perceive to be GOd's wishes?