Nice Boys

[Marc K]

Agreed, the UK and the USA are totally fucked at the moment all the more reason for Thailand not to extend a welcome and the immediate future doesn’t look good!

You are right, but these things can turn on a dime. Italy was just a few weeks ago seemingly doomed while most of the USA was skating by unscathed (except NY, NJ etc). Now the tables have turned dramatically as the USA appears doomed (esp TX FL and AZ) and Europe looks like it is largely skating by. So, too, with Thailand. We just don't have a clue as to what this virus is going to do. For the next two years we are going to have to live in a world of great uncertainty.

For me I cannot say I will mourn the passing of the go-go bars. I always felt mildly uncomfortable going to them as it seems they were/are somewhat demeaning to both staff as well as clients. And perhaps most of all I felt mildly guilty handing over money which mostly went to the corrupt underworld. For all those who complain on this board and elsewhere about Thai corruption, alas we were all being complicit in feeding that corruption.

[gerefan2]

Europe looks like it is largely skating by..

With 177,000 dead in Europe I wouldn’t call that largely skating by...

[Marc K]

In terms of new cases and new deaths.

[francois]

For me I cannot say I will mourn the passing of the go-go bars. I always felt mildly uncomfortable going to them as it seems they were/are somewhat demeaning to both staff as well as clients. And perhaps most of all I felt mildly guilty handing over money which mostly went to the corrupt underworld. For all those who complain on this board and elsewhere about Thai corruption, alas we were all being complicit in feeding that corruption.

I never felt demeaned in a go go club nor felt guilty about spending my money there. I don't believe the majority of the money went to the corrupt underworld at all.

[Oliver2]

I've often talked this issue over with P. I spent my working life fighting for human rights and against racism- for thirteen years often risking my life in the face of guns and tear gas, gladly and proudly- and so theoretically I'm sympathetic to Mark K's position.

P isn't. His decision to go to Pattaya nineteen years ago was carefully considered and ultimately beneficial. He'd tried a number of jobs from the age of 17, one of which entailed sleeping on the floor two hundred miles away in a shop.

He came to Pattaya with two good friends: they shared everything , lived together, danced together and looked after each other financially. They had fun. Both ended-up on their feet; one became a lady boy and mamasan of a boys-for ladies bar and has made a mint. Another one was taken-up by a wealthy French guy and sent to university in Bangkok. And P found me.

I've asked him more than once about his eighteen year-old nephew who's at college....a clever boy. What would he say if N. said that he wanted to be a bar-boy?

"No problem. I'd give him advice as to how to be successful and how to look after himself." I paraphrase, of course.

P told me of a couple of occasions when he was treated badly- not roughly but thoughtlessly- but on the whole, he felt that falangs had been good to him.

He looks back on those days- even the early ones when the three amigos were sometimes hungry, dependent on one of the trio having an off and paying for the food and rent for all- with nostalgia. He knows that my support (some would call it love) saved him when he was desperately sick in hospital and that when I die, the bulk of my estate will go to him.

And he knows that he changed my life, too.

[a447]

Some of the money went to the police as tea money but I don't think the underworld were involved.

In the bars that I liked to visit, I would never describe any of the guys as being demeaned; on the contrary, they were incredibly uninhibited, laid-back and very eager.

Had that not been the case, I would not have gone into the bars.

[latintopxxx]

a447....can u really truthfully say that...??

[francois]

Marc K, After pondering about the distant past, I do recall being in some go go bars and the lads offered to chuck wow for 100 Baht and I accepted. I do think that was demeaning to them and to me. They were desperate for money and, in a way, I heedlessly, took advantage of that; I regret that.

[a447]

a447....can u really truthfully say that...??

Yep. That was the case in Goodboys, Eros, Golden Cock and Natureboys.

I've only been to Nice Boys a few times and found the guys very willing to please. They no doubt loved the fact that they could earn some money without really doing anything.

the lads offered to chuck wow for 100 Baht and I accepted. I do think that was demeaning to them

When I chuck-wowed one guy, often a line would form, each guy wanting his turn. A number of guys loved the chuck-wow; they told me that they'd be having a wank when they got home anyway so they might as well get paid for it.

I always gave them the going rate, even if it was at the end of the night and the bar was about to close.

Everyone was a winner.

BTW francois, if I recall correctly it was you who told me I was under-tipping at Eros for a chuck-wow. So I offered them your suggested tip and again, it was a win win situation.

From what I've read, the only 2 hands-on bars left in Thailand are Niceboys and Golden Cock. Natureboys was dead the last time I was in Bangkok.

[bkkguy]

In answer to your question “ whose money is going to talk where” , the answer is pretty obvious. The owners, the workers, the police and the out of work prostitutes. It is their money (or lack of it) that is going to talk. And hopefully their voice will persuade the powers that be to reopen the borders and bring back the customers.

the first part of your post was fairly easy to agree with, but if this is your "obvious" answer then one of us doesn't understand the question!

yes the hospitality and tourism industry in Pattaya, and indeed all of Thailand, is on its knees but as restrictions on venues are relaxed the problem does not go away easily

there is the classic chicken and egg problem - venues, hotels, restaurants, etc can't run profitably without tourists and tourists won't come till the venues, hotels, restaurants, etc are open and fully functional

but more importantly this is not just a local problem - tourists won't come till they have the money in a collapsing world economy, until they are convinced long distance air travel is safe enough, until travel restrictions are relaxed enough to make travel even possible and airfares are reasonable enough to make it feasible

even more importantly the Thai authorities have shown willing to try to keep the economy alive and getting back to business by helping SMEs and employees of real companies get through this, with some very limited support for those outside the mainstream economy, and to some extent to get some limited business, medical and upmarket tourism going, but I have yet to see any interest from the authorities in the plight of police officers missing donations to the policeman's ball, unemployed prostitutes, owners of dubiously licensed "entertainment venues" and "hotels" in places Like Pattaya, etc, so I am curious as to why you are hopeful that their voice will persuade the powers that be!

and I don't know what you think the musicians have achieved as a good example - the authorities have always said live music venues would be the last to open and now they are opening as part of the last relaxations next month

as Marc K noted "For the next two years we are going to have to live in a world of great uncertainty" and things could change very quickly, for better or worse, but forgive me if I don't see a significant rescue for the sex tourism industry in Pattaya any time soon