More European parochialism.

[latintopxxx]

but the scot looney independants will keep holding referendums until they get the result they want. Idiots.

[scottish-guy]

I have read somewhere that there are 300,000 English people living in rain sodden Scotland.
In the referendum was the vote to leave the union lost by 300,000 votes?
Spain has made it clear that they would veto Scotland's entry to the EU if ever an application arrived from Dun Eadain.
Re. the Catalan Referendum; it was basically a bunch of leavers running around putting plastic boxes into schools with no independent monitoring and no agreement with Madrid.
It was not legitimate in the way that the Scottish Referendum was in my humble opinion.

I guess the fact that you are humble about this series of ill-informed opinions mitigates your lack of accuracy - but at least you're closer to the facts than Head Judge Len is most of the time, so I give you credit for that!

• #Indyref1 was lost by just under 400,000 votes (not 300,000 as you state)
• 9% of the population identify as English only - which means approx 500,000 in 2014 not 300,000 as you state.
• I don't know if it was your intention to imply that English settlers lost #Indyref1 for Scotland, but I would reject that. There are more than sufficient cringing Scots willing to betray their Country, plus many English settlers are very active in the Independence movement. I'd say they made a significant but not decisive contribution to the result
• The "Spanish veto" is a direct lie peddled by Unionists. Spain's official position (which has been subsequently borne out) was that provided #Indyref1 was legal Spain "would have nothing to say" This has been recently repeated by Spain on the subject of #Indyref2. You can see why that position was and still *is* in their interests
• The Catalan referendum, far from the way you have characterised it, was efficiently organised by the Catalan Govt and local authorities. It was of course the Spanish authorities who disrupted it
• There were international monitors - several UK parliamentarians were involved in that together with experienced monitors from many other countries.
• "Legitimacy" is in the eye of the beholder. Over 20 current UN members asserted their Independence without the agreement of their "parent" State. One you may just have heard of - The United States of America

[frequent]

Britain!, an "imperialistic crap pot" Let me tell you that Britain built the greatest ever empire by acting like gentlemen.

Quite so, arsenal. Only a true English gentleman could have invented the concentration camp

[scottish-guy]

....and being such a colossal old Boer himself you'd have thought Head Judge Len would have known that!

[arsenal]

I did know it but chose to gloss over it.

Scottish, when you say "the authorities" in Spain I presume you mean the legitimate elected government. Is that who you mean? Cue insults from Scottish because.......

[scottish-guy]

Both "authorities" - Catalan Govt and Spanish National Govt are legitimate and elected - are you losing the plot?

Clearly I meant the Spanish National Govt disrupted the voting - only a cretin would imagine otherwise.

Meanwhile.....

LENCC2.jpg

[FarangRuMak]

I was a bit out in my figures but if anything the real figures confirms me in my opinion.
So there are 500,000 English in Scotland and the Referendum was lost by a margin of 400,000.
I don't think that more than 10% of this Sassanach cohort voted against retaining the Union and I think this will remain the position in future Referenda.
The only hope for breaking the Union will be a larger turnout with a majority of Independence voters making up this group.
Re. Catalonia:
The legitimacy of the Referendum must be questioned because it was organised mostly by the Catexiteers.
They don't deny this-in fact they're proud to tell the world how they took control of the polling centres, hid the boxes and so on.
This 'ownership' of the polling stations would intimidate the other side and no doubt led to a small turnout of pro-Union Catalans.
I would love to see the Catalans get what they want PROVIDED that the true Majority want what they get.
To me this Referendum falls far short on that score in my Humble opinion.

[scottish-guy]

FRM, I admire your interest.....

You suggest the "only hope (in a second indyref) is a higher turnout".

Given that 100% turnout was recorded in some areas and overall it was 85%, I'd suggest there is little scope for a higher turnout.

Where some of the "hope" lies is with the demise of the (2014) >70yo cohort who were simultaneously overwhelmingly NO and the group which provided the highest turnout. YES is leading approx 70/30 amongst the under 30s with no drop off as they progress in age (given that it's only been 3 years).

So it seems likely that constitutional change may be effected partially or substantially by demographics - much like another part of the U.K. which I don't want to bring up again.

There is also hope by virtue of possible future events.

No agreement on Brexit might have a significant impact given that the vote to remain was 62% in Scotland.
Prices in the shops are already going up significantly - rising well ahead of wages - and interest rates are likely to be raised soon.
The U.K. Prime Minister is more of a lame duck that a one-legged mallard and the next in line is a fucking mop-headed buffoon that nobody can stand except the London chattering class.

Moving on to Catalonia - your contention that it was the Independence seekers doing the "intimidation" is the best piece of political spin since Hitler blamed the Commies for setting fire to the Reichstag!

Do you not possess a TV?

[scottish-guy]

Talking of TV - one of the biggest barriers to YES is that save for a single semi-newspaper, the entire mainstream media (including the State Broadcaster, the BBC) is controlled by NO.

Alternative media does a very good job of trying to balance the debate but it simply does not reach much of those 70+ voters who against all the evidence still believe that the media tells the truth (and especially the BBC)

[FarangRuMak]

Scotland Independence.
I must take the point made by a Scot here that other circumstances have changed since the 1st referendum so I have to concede that a different result next time is not solely down to an increased turnout.
If the majority of Scots vote for independence they will get it because unlike the Catalan Referendum it will be a transparent affair agreed to by both governing institutions.
Following on from that E U membership should not be blocked by veto by other states.
However whether it can or not remains to be seen.
Re Catalan Referendum.
It's obvious to all fairminded people that the Spanish police behaved brutally.
But that's a different issue.
Even if they had behaved properly the Referendum was not conducted to the standards of the British/Scottish referendum on all types of criteria IMHO.