Brexit

[arsenal]

Fountainhall: I agree with a lot of what you wrote but it is a little simplistic. You are right about Blairs government getting the immigration issue wrong and it's is actually a bit rich for the French and Germans to be banging on about free movement when they imposed a 7 year moratorium on immigrants from the new European members. But, the biggest problem is neither of the political parties. It is the failure of Europe to understand the British people and the fact that we are an Island Nation. and have all the qualities and faults that that brings.

[cdnmatt]

Guys, where's all the talk about "democracy might not be the way to go" BS coming from?

Just take a look at the HDI. Who scores top? Right, all democratic nations. They sure as hell far surpass dictatorships, because many times those end up in civil war, and it just so happens that's not quite so good for the economy or standard of living.

[fountainhall]

. . . the biggest problem is neither of the political parties. It is the failure of Europe to understand the British people and the fact that we are an Island Nation. and have all the qualities and faults that that brings.

I don't disagree with that. But I submit that monstrous flood of immigration and the right of immigrants to all the benefits of British workers is at the root of the Referendum result. And a second Referendum in the nearish future, won't solve that problem. As for the EU, I do think one positive result of the Referendum is that Mrs. Merkel and her colleagues will actually start to make the reforms they should have been making before their bureaucracy grew into such an unwieldy monster.

[arsenal]

Matt: Democracy is rather a loose expression. Despite the referendum there are many who would and do argue that the UK is not really fully democratic due to our 'first past the post' electoral system. But yes, I agree it sure as hell beats all the other systems. As Winston Churchill once said.

[arsenal]

Fountainhall. I absolutely agree with you. I don't want to go down the path that Scottish thinks I live on but no one has ever explained to why a foreigner should be able to turn up in Britain and be entitled to everything that someone who has lived here their whole life and contributed to is.
But take consolation. Blair more than any other Prime Minister in British history (way more than Thatcher) is universally loathed in his own country by both the left and the right.

[fountainhall]

Just take a look at the HDI.

Humpty Dumpty Index?

[cdnmatt]

Humpty Dumpty Index?

Well, you can always check out life in Qatar, and see if it measures up to say Canada, I guess.

[fountainhall]

For those of you thoroughly confused about UK politics and the Brexit campaign, try this -

So, let me get this straight... the leader of the opposition campaigned to stay but secretly wanted to leave, so his party held a non-binding vote to shame him into resigning so someone else could lead the campaign to ignore the result of the non-binding referendum which many people now think was just angry people trying to shame politicians into seeing they'd all done nothing to help them.

Meanwhile, the man who campaigned to leave because he hoped losing would help him win the leadership of his party, accidentally won and ruined any chance of leading because the man who thought he couldn't lose, did - but resigned before actually doing the thing the vote had been about. The man who'd always thought he'd lead next, campaigned so badly that everyone thought he was lying when he said the economy would crash - and he was, but it did, but he's not resigned, but, like the man who lost and the man who won, also now can't become leader. Which means the woman who quietly campaigned to stay but always said she wanted to leave is likely to become leader instead.

Which means she holds the same view as the leader of the opposition but for opposite reasons, but her party's view of this view is the opposite of the opposition's. And the opposition aren't yet opposing anything because the leader isn't listening to his party, who aren't listening to the country, who aren't listening to experts or possibly paying that much attention at all. However, none of their opponents actually want to be the one to do the thing that the vote was about, so there's not yet anything actually on the table to oppose anyway. And if no one ever does do the thing that most people asked them to do, it will be undemocratic and if any one ever does do it, it will be awful.

From the Facebook page of Benjamin Timothy Blaine

[Up2U]

Breaking news: Boris Johnson will not stand for PM.

[arsenal]

One good piece of news. Boris is an opportunist politician who never expected to win but rather leave his calling card. Now he finds himself hated by his own colleagues. I said Michael Gove from the beginning and I stick with that. He's got all the qualities required including ruthlessness as he's just stabbed poor Boris with a stiletto.