Pattaya - SunneePlaza -What's the deal with CrazyDragon?

[DragonMaster]

Well Firepuss, I guess you just can't help yourself. You have taken a quote from a post I did 9 months before I took over the Krazy Dragon. It had nothing to do with KD, but was in response to the posts regarding Boyztown and some of the problems bar owners could have catering to the wishes of a few posters. If you define sleaze as the boys wagging their dicks right in front of your face, that's what I objected to and that's what the boys were instructed not to do. If it's going on again, it's because I haven't been there to see it, but the policy has not changed in that regard. Regardless, you have said several times that you don't like sleaze so what goes on in KD or any other bar shouldn't concern you, other than the fact you're trying to be relevant by posting your own self serving bullshit to get attention. What a loser.....

[firecat69]

You are the unbelievable loser!!.. In the same post you say you don't allow weenie wagging but if its going on , its is because you are not there.

What a joke. It's your Bar, get your Ass in there and run it the way you have told everyone you were going to.

You are perfect example of why so many Bar owners in Pattaya fail. It's their Bar but they can't even spend 4 hours a night in there when there are customers to see it is being run the way they want it.

Then they find all sorts of reasons for their Failure except their own incompetence and laziness!!!!!!

[Dodger]

The "sleaze factor" in any boy bar, regardless of its location and venue, is the result of the atmosphere the owner decides to create and manage.

Some people would suggest that any establishment that operates in the sex-for-pay industry is sleazy simply based on the venue itself, but to most gay farang punters (including myself) the sleaze factor is nothing more than the owners preference for how his staff should conduct themselves in the process of luring customers. If the bar encourages its staff to promote groping - then the customers the bar lures will be those who enjoy groping. If the bar provides a venue where "looking" and not "touching" is encouraged - then the customers the bar lures will be those who enjoy looking.

Regardless of the "sleaze factor" the success of any gay bar (beer bar or gogo) relies totally on the quantity and quality of the boys the bar staffs...nothing more and nothing less. It's this one very basic principal that makes the difference and nothing else really matters. I've known bar owners who spent big money fitting their bar with new sofa's, colorful lighting and all sorts of sparkly decorations who end up having to jerk the sign off their door due to lack of business, when, at the same time, the bar down the soi which is dark and dreary, has sofa's with the stuffing falling out and a hung nam door which is falling off its hinges, is packing in the customers. This phenomenom is for one reason and one reason only...they have the boys.

I for one didn't frequent KD much in the past and it's not because the boys were wagging their peters in my face - it was because the boys simply were not my preference, and if they were, I would be the last one complaining. I'm not suggesting to KD that they start staffing the type of boys I like because that would be obsurd, but I am suggesting that they (KD) consider providing the quantity and quality of staff that alure the most customers.

Opening a boy bar is an extremly challanging process, especially for a farang who is not tapped into the boy supply-chain. The Thai owned bars rely heaviliy on the abilities of their mamasans to recruit (and keep recruiting) fresh talent. This typically involves hiring a mamasan (or mamasans) who are networked with the boys who live in or near their home towns in Isaan or some other region. When you see a mamasan just sitting around out in front of bar empty of customers and he/she isn't on the mobile phone making connections then he/she is probably not the best candidate for recruiting boys. A good mamasan, as much of a pain in the ass that she can be at times, is worth her weight in gold.

I personally believe that Krazy Dragon can be sucessful, evan more successful than it was with the previous owner, if they can secure the services of a few good mamasan recruiters and focus on staffing a broad selection of boys in sufficient quantity. A bar the size of KD should plan to staff 30-40 boys at a minimum. I know, easier said than done. The interior of the bar always appeared upscale to me and the people inside were always friendly. If the boys are there the customers will come (including me), and if they are being encouraged to let it all hang out - than it would just that much better. Keep the staff +18, perform random drug screening, don't allow underaged patrons, avoid illegal sex shows and keep the license current. None of these things drive business - they only jeoparize it and promote further corruption which is the driving force of the decay we see in Sunee Plaza.

[Nirish guy]

Speaking as someone who also runs a business ( and I can't believe I'm doing this) but in defence of bar owner/s in general - so WHO exactly is paying for these 30-40 boys and the one or two manasans that it is suggested they recruit ? Not to mention the licence/s, the tea money to the police ( and everyone and anyone else who believes they're entitled to a cut of your profits) all while the 5 or 10 customers you're maybe lucky to get in to your bar in low season sit and drink their 100 baht beers - very slowly and all whilst complaining that they know a place where the beer is only 80 baht and yes ok that's 40 miles away and isn't isn't a go go bar but if THEY can do it why can't here !?

So while some of the ideas above may be sound in terms of what would make for a fun bar they should to be fair to the owners also have SOME basis in the "real world" - and THAT I believe is where DM is at as I'm sure he would agree that to do such things would be lovely perhaps - BUT to do so AND to make a profit while doing so is a WHOLE other story maybe and just how long does one keep pumping ones money into a BUSINESS where you can SEE that it's not turning a profit and being run as it is at present probably wont in the future ?

And that's not to say that KD can't be made profitable in the future by the way, but just FOR WHATEVER reason not now and not by it's present owner it seems, so, after his best efforts (be they good or bad) DM decided he's invested enough money for his liking to enable him to find where his business plan ( or lack of one perhaps) is taking him and so is going to stop - or at least try something else ( or some might say back to where he started again - and perhaps about to repeat exactly the same judgment calls that maybe some think were the start of his problems in the first place - but they are of course his calls to make and at some point he will have to accept that too in that maybe some of his judgement calls HAVE resulted in things ending up where they have as in all businesses the buck ultimately (should) stop at the top.

On the other hand I'm sure DM would say "ah, but if you only KNEW the TRUE costs involved in running the / a bar the way you would like me to then YOU too would not say carry on as you suggest" and I guess only HE knows the answer to that one point and as it IS his money it's his call and if and when he sells up well at the rate Sunee bars change hands we'll soon see what the next guy ( and the next guy and the next guy perhaps) make of it - and THEN I guess we'll maybe be in a position to know who was right and who was wrong all along perhaps ?

[Dodger]

Nirishguiy wrote:

Speaking as someone who also runs a business ( and I can't believe I'm doing this) but in defence of bar owner/s in general - so WHO exactly is paying for these 30-40 boys and the one or two manasans that it is suggested they recruit ?

Answer: A person who intends on maintaining a profitable business.

Operating a boy bar without a solid plan regarding staffing definately places the business in a high risk category, and I'm not for a minute suggesting that operating a boy bar in the current economic climate is a wise move at all, I'm just trying to emphasiza the fact that without the boys the business is likely to fail. If you open a donut shop intending to sell donuts - you need the donuts to sell first.

Beer, owner of Nice Boys, has approximately 30-40 boys working the stage on various nights, although staffs none of them. Beer changed his business model 2 years ago when he found himself competing with web sites like Gayromeo which he felt contributed to the decline in business. The boys who work at NB are now considered suncontractors (freelancers) and can come and go as they choose, although are not paid salaries. His plan was brilliant. He was apparently able to afford the overhead expenses you referred to, and at the same time have a good supply pf boys to satisfy a steady steady of customers. I know NB is now up for sale, but from what I understand it's not because of a failing business - it's because Beer, after 15 years of working 7 days a week at various bars in Sunee Plaza (including NB's) is ready for a break.

It's a tough proposition any way you carve the turkey. You can't have the customers without the boys - and you can't get the quantity or quality of boys without the customers. I believe that staffing a bar on a subcontract basis creates a win-win situation for both the boys and the bar owner, and finding the right mamasan to do the recruiting is imperative.

My hat's off the GD for making a second attempt and only make these kinds of remarks because I would like to see him succeed.

[bucknaway]

My hat's off the GD for making a second attempt and only make these kinds of remarks because I would like to see him succeed.

I'm with you there Dodger. I think we all want to see him succeed. We thought we were being an early warning system to the owner to let him know that we thought there may be big trouble ahead as related to the operation of the bar. What started off as us yelling "HEY!! LOOKOUT!!" Turned into an argument with the business owner and the customers fighting over the operation of the Krazy Dragon when we all wanted to bar to be a success. The difference is that we wanted it to be a successful gogo bar and the new owner wanted it to be a successful non-gogo bar.