French Minister paid for sex with "boys" in Thailand

[Ron-Heng Vancouver]

What is so troubling :glasses7: in Canada is that the laws define a child as anyone under the age of 18 or one "who appears" to be under the age of 18...... so many could be charged with child sex or child porn if one even "appears", so what should one do? Date the elderly. Especially Asian men look so young for many years.

Also, my 'boy' friend and I (he's 37) never did like the word "boy" or people asking "how are you boys" or "how is your boy?" This infuriates my partner who is Thai, by the way. He thought this even as a 24 yr old man. He says, "we are men, not boys...:" and it angers him when gay men speak about the partners, et al as "boys" and he considers it derragotory and disrespectful as do I.

"?The Men of Vancouver"
:sex:

et moi aussi .... which is why I noted that he referred specifically to "jeunes gar├зons tr├иs attrayants" - young attractive boys. While "boys" can have many meanings, young boys is rather more specific.

It just goes to show that Thailand is far from the only country where some connections and some money can keep you out of all sorts of trouble.

[Brad the Impala]

et moi aussi .... which is why I noted that he referred specifically to "jeunes gar├зons tr├иs attrayants" - young attractive boys. While "boys" can have many meanings, young boys is rather more specific.

How astute you are, Monsieur Poirot! However given that the linked article provided the translation as "young boys" in it's first paragraph, it is neither as illuminating or as prescient a comment as you appear to believe. No change there then.

It just goes to show that Thailand is far from the only country where some connections and some money can keep you out of all sorts of trouble.

A curious conclusion given that the point of the news coverage is the trouble that Mitterand's statement IS causing him, now that his statement has received wider publicity than it did when his book was originally published. Too much opium Mr Holmes?

How astute you are, Monsieur Poirot!

And how astute you aren't. You and those others who have referred to and made much of the use of the word "boys" have entirely (deliberately?) overlooked this point in order to fabricate one of your own which has no basis in this context.

It just goes to show that Thailand is far from the only country where some connections and some money can keep you out of all sorts of trouble.

A curious conclusion .....

Hardly curious - just a conclusion you would prefer not to see as it does not match your agenda. The "statement" was published in his book 4 years ago; the "publicity" was the result of his recent statement condemning the arrest of Roman Polanski for raping and sodomising a 13 year old girl in 1978 after drugging her (an offence he pled guilty to).

Roman Polanski has lived in France since leaving the USA after he was found guilty but before he was sentenced, but he has openly visited a number of countries where he could have been arrested and extradited to the USA to be sentenced in the last 30 years, and where his movements were well known in advance; until now, no attempt to do so was made, however the publicity over his visit to Geneva for a lifetime achievment award was obviously too much to be ignored. Miterrand's statements are clearly not causing him any trouble politically or personally - on the contrary he appears to be enjoying the publicity. In both cases, which are clearly linked to anyone who keeps abreast of the news, my conclusion is a reasonable one - even if you prefer not to see it, just because it is mine.

Grow up Brad.

[PeterUK]

I had a grudging respect for the Gallic gall of M. Mitterrand in writing about his experiences in the boy brothels of Thailand and then taking the job of Culture Minister, but I see in today's Bangkok Post that in an 'emotional and angry' TV interview he has said that, while he did indeed pay for sex, it was with 'men of my own age', including a '40-year-old boxer'. So it looks like he's been reduced to the usual politician's game of trying to cover his sorry arse. He was paying middle-aged men for sex?? I wonder which thriving Thailand 'boy' bar specialises in this service!

So it looks like he's been reduced to the usual politician's game of trying to cover his sorry arse.

Metaphorically speaking, of course ...and I suppose angry and emotional is better than George Brown's "tired and emotional"!

[Brad the Impala]

Gone Phishing, thank you for rewriting the news that has been available in the BBC news story, and also from every other news organ! Repeating it definitely makes you as "abreast of the news" as everyone else. Well done!

Despite the French belief that politicians are entitled to keep their private life private, and that artists are entitled to some additional license, I would guess that after a suitable period, to show that they are not just bowing to public and foreign government opinion, a new Minister of Culture will be needed.

Of course in Britain or the States Mitterand would have already departed, if he indeed he could have ever been appointed!

[Art]

Wikipedia

[Fr├йd├йric] Mitterrand's autobiographical novel The Bad Life (French: La mauvaise vie) was a best seller in 2005. In the book he details his "delight" whilst visiting the male brothels of Bangkok, and writes, "I got into the habit of paying for boys ... The profusion of young, very attractive and immediately available boys put me in a state of desire I no longer needed to restrain or hide." At the time of its release Mitterrand was applauded for his honesty, but he has had to defend his writings after he publicly defended Roman Polanski when Polanski was detained in Switzerland on an American request for extradition for having sex with a thirteen year old girl.

On October 5, 2009 Marine Le Pen of the French National Front Party quoted sections of the book on French television, accusing him of having sex with underage boys and engaging in "sex tourism", demanding that Mitterrand resign his position as culture minister. Amongst others he was also criticised by the Socialist Party spokesman Beno├оt Hamon, who stated: тАЬAs a minister of culture he has drawn attention to himself by defending a film maker and he has written a book where he said he took advantage of sexual tourism. To say the least, I find it shocking.тАЭ On the other hand, some conservatives supported Mitterrand, and a close aide to Nicolas Sarkozy said the French President backed his Culture Minister, describing the controversy around him as "pathetic."

Mitterrand also insists the book isn't an autobiography, the publisher describes it as a "novel inspired by autobiography" and the BBC refers to it as "autobiographical novel". In his own defence Mitterand stated, "Each time I was with people who were my age, or who were five years younger тАУ there wasn't the slightest ambiguity тАУ and who were consenting," and that he uses the term "boys" loosely, both in his life and in the book. He also declared, "I condemn sexual tourism, which is a disgrace. I condemn paedophilia, which I have never in any way participated in."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fr%C3%A9d% ... Mitterrand
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fr%C3%A9d% ... Mitterrand

Sex workers speak out about France Culture Minister Controversy

October 27, 2009 by apnswdollhouse

Khun Chutchai, Asia Pacific Network of Sex Workers (APNSW), Bangkok, Thailand.

It has come to our attention that their is still continuing debate around the issue of the French Culture Minister, Fr├йd├йric Mitterrand, and his admission that he paid for sex with male sex workers in Thailand. We have seen attacks on him from both the left and the right of French politics- attacks which we see as both homophobic and anti-sex worker.

Worse we see the racist, orientalist views of the elites on both sides of French politics who construct Thai sex workers as somehow тАЬbackwardтАЭ and unable to choose what we do. In Thailand all male sex workers are referred to by the term тАЬNongтАЭ which means boy. We are not duped under age boys forced into тАЬsexual slavery.тАЭ We are people in a poor country exercising our choices to live and earn money to support ourselves, our family and our country.

The money we earn and send home to the rural areas of Thailand is far larger than any international development programme and supports far more people. Tourism to Thailand is our countryтАЩs second biggest industry- and people have sex on holidays. Are they meant to be celibate? Is it now unacceptable for Europeans to have sex with Asians in case they are exploiting us? If French politicians are so concerned about our exploitation they would do better to support labour laws for sex workers and to push the ILO to recognise sex work as work.

When and until the parties of the Left and the Right of French politics agree to substantially increase development aid to redistribute the wealth that France and other former colonial countries stole from the developing world, we would appreciate it if you keep sending us your tourists so that we can show them a good time and get some of your hard won cash.


Le STRASS, Syndicat du TRAvail Sexuel fran├зais (http://site.strass-syndicat.org) a demand├й ├а ses coll├иgues de Tha├пlande ce quтАЩils pensaient de cette affaire. Voici leur r├йponse:

Khun Chutchai, R├йseau Asie-Pacifique des travailleurs du sexe, Bangkok, Tha├пlande.

Il a ├йt├й port├й ├а notre attention quтАЩil y a toujours un d├йbat en cours autour de la question du ministre fran├зais de la Culture, Fr├йd├йric Mitterrand, et son aveu dтАЩavoir pay├й pour des rapports sexuels avec des professionnels du sexe en Tha├пlande. Nous avons vu ces attaques contre lui provenant ├а la fois de la gauche et de la droite de la politique fran├зaise - attaques que nous voyons ├а la fois comme homophobes et anti-travailleurs du sexe.

Pire encore, nous les voyons comme racistes, une vision orientaliste des ├йlites des deux c├┤t├йs de la politique fran├зaise qui construisent une representation des travailleurs du sexe tha├пs, en quelque sorte ┬лen position de passivite┬╗ et incapable de choisir ce que nous faisons. En Tha├пlande, tous les travailleurs de sexe masculins sont d├йsign├йs par le terme ┬лNong┬╗, qui signifie gar├зon. Nous ne sommes pas des gar├зons forces en dessous de lтАЩage legal contraints ├а ┬лlтАЩesclavage sexuel┬╗. Nous sommes des gens dans un pays pauvre qui exercons notre choix de vivre et de gagner de lтАЩargent pour nous memes et soutenir, notre famille et notre pays.

LтАЩargent que nous gagnons et que nous envoyons chez nous dans les zones rurales de la Tha├пlande est beaucoup plus important que tout programme de d├йveloppement international et soutient beaucoup plus de personnes. Le tourisme en Tha├пlande est la deuxi├иme industrie de notre pays et les gens ont des rapports sexuels pendant les vacances. Sont-ils cens├йs rester c├йlibataires? Est-il aujourdтАЩhui inacceptable pour les Europ├йens dтАЩavoir des rapports sexuels avec des Asiatiques au cas o├╣ ils nous exploiteraient? Si les politiciens fran├зais sont si pr├йoccup├йs par notre exploitation, ils feraient mieux de soutenir des lois protegeant le travail des travailleurs du sexe et de pousser lтАЩOIT ├а reconna├оtre le travail du sexe comme un travail.

Tant que et jusquтАЩ├а ce que les partis de la gauche et la droite de la politique fran├зaise acceptent dтАЩaugmenter substantiellement lтАЩaide au d├йveloppement pour redistribuer les richesses que la France et dтАЩautres anciens pays coloniaux ont vol├й au monde en d├йveloppement, nous serions reconnaissants si vous continuez ├а nous envoyer vos touristes, afin que nous puissions leur montrer ce quтАЩest passer du bon temps et obtenir une partie de votre argent durement acquis.

Source: http://apnswdollhouse.wordpress.com/...r-controversy/ (http://www.apnsw.org)

Fr├йd├йric Mitterand: La mauvaise vie. Paris: Laffont 2005.

Maintenant, je sais a peu pr├иs ├а quoi m'en tenir. C'est une attraction t├йn├йbreuse, incompr├йhensible, mais elle ne me l├вche pas; une sorte de jeu aussi qui rend heureux et triste. Je pense qu'il y a certainement d'autres gardons comme moi mais je n'ai pas eu beaucoup de chance puisque je ne les ai pas rencontr├йs; je sais plus ou moins o├╣ ├зa me m├иnera, mais j'ai encore du mal a imaginer les d├йtails. C'est curieux, mes fr├иres n'en parlent pas devant moi. Enfin, quelquefois quand m├кme et alors sur un ton de plaisanterie l├йg├иre qui me donne l'impression d'├кtre moins seul; mais je saisis au vol ce que disent leurs copains, les plus grands en g├йn├йral, quand ils abordent le sujet ; ils sont alors pleins de m├йpris, d'insultes, de moqueries. D'ailleurs, prudemment, quand on me cherche, je hurle avec les loups. Il faut donc que je garde le secret, que je ne le confie a personne, absolument personne, jusqu'au jour o├╣ je pourrai le partager avec celui qui l'aura ├йgalement gard├й. Le glissement vers la clandestinit├й, l'├йt├вt d'alerte permanente s'amorcent mais je ne m'en rends pas bien compte. Br├иve p├йriode dans l'┼Уil du cyclone o├╣ je ne ressens toujours pas de honte ni de crainte particuli├иre; pas encore, cela viendra bient├┤t, r├йtribution au centuple. Au fond, je ne crois pas que ce soit irr├йm├йdiable. Au lyc├йe Janson il y a aussi des filles, je me plais en leur compagnie, elles m'invitent, on se passe des petits mots, je m'invente des amourettes et je me persuade que ├зa marchera tr├иs bien; je suis un peu moins s├╗r de moi, il est vrai, quand elles me pr├йsentent leurs fr├иres. Enfin tout bouge, rien n'est fixe, je changerai peut-├кtre comme mon corps d'enfant qui grandit et se transforme trop lentement ├а mon go├╗t. Allez, tout ira bien, le principal souci dans la vie c'est de ne pas se faire coller un z├йro en maths par Mme Martin, une autre m├йchante femme aux traits d├йlicats.

http://www.culture.gouv.fr/mcc/Actua...ric-Mitterrand

[kittyboy]

I have stated this view previously. All relationships have an element of power dynamics, who has power, where is it used, how and why is it used?

If you look at the American South prior to the modern civil rights era Black men were often summoned, described and generally called Boy as a way of estalishing and maintianing the social order..whites on top black on the bottom. Whites had power and blacks did not.

Look at the language in business settings prior to the womens liberation movement...women were often in subservient roles of secretary or administrative staff and even older women were collectively referred to as the girls. Men had power women did not.

I suspect that one reason (not just the age difference) that gay farang in thailand commonly refer to thai guys as boys is the farang have money, status and therefore power.

I am sure certain posters will take offense and gnash teeth and defend their own relationships as being built on trust and that my comments are cynical and BS...Get away from you own specific example and look at this in general terms. In general who has power in farang thai relationships? Do not wallow in the specifics of you own situation...sorry boring.

[Beachlover]

That's a valid point... But you write in such an academic way... starting with all the background details before presenting the key point you're trying to make.

Start by getting straight to the main point (like journalists do). The background details, supporting stories and such can come later.

I have a client who's been with me since I started as a one-man band. He still refers to me as, "boy"... saying things like, "you're a busy boy"... and such.

I usually get pissed off if someone does this kind of thing in a very "I look down on you" way but he's a nice guy I respect and great to deal with.