Advice for long-term needed...

I'm not sure if you stated you were a full-time resident of LOS or not, because of course this throws another set of dynamics into play.

Dodger has not only given excellent advice, but raised the most important point - are you living here, in which case the "long-term" relationship you are after is at least possible, or are you here on holiday, in which case you may as well forget it? After all, unless you can speak a reasonable amount of Thai (which is also not clear) you know nothing about him whatsoever. For 3,000 baht a night, particularly at the moment, it would be quite a surprise if he was not all over you, 24 hours a day. Not only is he getting very well paid in comparison with most of his friends at the karaoke bar but he can also show off that he has got a young (apparently presentable) farang rather than a geriatric wrinkly, whom he is (apparently) topping. No wonder he's happy.

I can see the point being made by those saying stop paying him and then see if he still likes you - the problem is that, if you do, you are effectively (at least to him, however you phrase it) telling him to come and visit/service you for free but to go back to the bar to support himself or, if he can, find another job (with similar pay). Hardly a great way to start a relationship!

A few more details, such as whether you are living here, how long you have known him, what you know about him, etc, and you may get some decent personal advice - if not, it will just be generalisations (for and against).

Back in Pattaya right now, and I've tried the long-term relationship thing a few times before, but it's just never worked out. Neither of us did anything wrong, and they treated me the same as I treated them, which is extremely well. They always took good care of me, but they always seen it as a job.

....am I just still completely naive and clueless?

Short answer: Yes.

If, as the context of your post implies, your previous LTR attempts involved monetary compensation on a daily or weekly basis, then "they always seen [sic] it as a job" because it was a job! Duh! :8(

If your ultimate goal is a relationship based on the love of you rather than the love of your money, then you are definitely approaching it in the wrong way. :old: Unless you have unusual and/or repugnant deformities that you haven't revealed, a 27 y.o. should not need to base a relationship on the promise of monetary compensation; and doing so will rob you - at the time of your life when it is most possible - of the superlative experience of having a relationship based on affection for you as a person, rather than your wallet (or the opportunity for emigration, which is the other big "asset" you have in some Thai's eyes).

Geez... a 27 y.o. trying to find a LTR from boys he's paying per night, and paying 3,000 baht (per night!) to boot. If I were a cynic I'd say you're just a troll. (Oh, that's right, I am a cynic...) :bounce:

In the off chance you're for real, though, here's some advice: Date someone you don't have to pay, and who wouldn't even accept money if you offered. They exist, right there in Thailand (well, maybe not in Pattaya...). Of course, if you're just a control freak who needs (psychologically) to use your money to control a relationship, you're probably doing just fine as is...

[pennyboy]

3000bt a night!!!!
Do you think he is clinging to you because you are only 27? I think he would be clinging to me for that amount a day. I'm sorry and hope I am wrong but he is a money boy and that is what attracts him.

good luck

This is a fairly bizarre topic!

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt as you remind me of a young German guy I know of, who suddenly felt insecure when his Thai boyfriend got a scholarship to study in Australia and he realised the Thai guy wasn't a possession who could be bought with hard cash, a luxurious lifestyle or the novelty of a fresh-faced young Caucasian. So there are other people in similar situations.

I don't mean to be unkind but it seems ultimately you have an immature and destructive approach to relationships, and though I don't know you, I would suggest a very different kind of professional help.

If you want a good relationship in Thailand it's the same as anywhere else in the world. You need to enjoy each other's company and be able to communicate with each other. Of course the success rate is going to be higher if there is some mutual physical attraction and you share some interests - that's why large age gaps or cultural differences can be an obstacle.

In the end you need to develop and nurture a relationship over time, whether it's with a GoGo boy or with a doctor or lawyer (probably earning less than 3000 Baht a day though!). There is no 3000 Baht golden ticket in Thailand or anywhere else that will make somebody love you overnight - at best he is infatuated with you, at worst he is a good, overpaid actor!

Whether you're a Brad Pitt lookalike or you are totally hideous it doesn't make a difference either - you need to get to know each other over a long period of time, be conscientious, build up trust, respect his space and let him have a life outside of your bubble too. Don't mistake an overnight infatuation for a loving relationship, whatever his motives for being infatuated with you.

In the long-term, the odds are stacked against you to have an honest long-term relationship with a GoGo boy, but if you can see through this infatuation your life will be easier. It's a great idea to learn some Thai, even a little will go a long way! English lessons for your guy is a nice idea, but why not teach him yourself? You are articulate and fluent in English, so you are more than capable of teaching him. Besides education is the same as a relationship, you can't just throw money at it to get results. This would be a great chance to spend good time together and develop your relationship as well as his English skills so you can communicate better. There are so many English-teaching resources you can find online if you get stuck.

Finally I strongly suggest you make some regular friends if you are going to be in Thailand for a long time. You seem like a nice guy, don't be shy - meet some Thai people who speak English outside of the P4P sex industry, there are a lot of honest friendly Thais around, even in Pattaya! Meet some expats too, we are not all boozy and delusional despite our reputation!

Sorry for the waffly response, advice is cheap. Best of luck matey irate:

[fedssocr]

I agree that one of your biggest obstacles is the communication gap. What you have until you are actually able to converse with each other and learn about each other is not a relationship. It is a business arrangement.

And cultivating actual friends not paid companionship is a good idea.

Good luck.

[cdnmatt]

Thanks for the comments everyone! Except for you SF farang. Are you that much of a dick in real life too? I mean, really, what's the point?

To answer some questions. He doesn't work at the bar anymore, and although I doubt I've been given an honest answer as to why, it does mean he's only been a go-go boy for 2 - 3 weeks. Again, I think this is one of the reasons I like him. It's apparent he hasn't been hardened by the scene yet. Either that, or he's VERY good at his job. He lives a block away, I have his friend's cell, and that's how we get ahold of each other. I'd be surprised to find out he went back to the scene anytime soon. I mean, why stand on a stage in your underwear all night, when I'm just a phone call away?

No, I don't live in Thailand, but will be here for the next 2 - 3 months, which I think is enough time to cultivate something meaningful. My business is online, so I do have to be in Canada a bit to take care of things, but can spend tons of time in Thailand if wanted. Immigration would be an issue, but there's ways around that.

I speak as much Thai as he speaks English, which is about three words. Again, that can be solved if wanted. Right now, we just use his friends as translators.

I was already married for three years. Met in Toronto, we were both 22, genuinely fell in love, got married, travelled the world, and the whole nine yards. I got hurt very badly through it though, so I'm not really looking for a genuine, natural relationship. I'm looking for more of a contractual relationship this time around, where we're BOTH happy with things. There's tons of contractual relationships out there, both in Asia and in the West. About 8 months into my previous marriage, I ended up financially responsible for everything due to various reasons, so I'm fine with that.

justin put it perfectly:

If you do enter a real relationship, then it will not be a question of paying him, but supporting him (and to some extent, his family). If he expects a daily allowance which is more than pocket money, I'm afraid it's the folding stuff he loves, and not you.

There we go, you phrased it better than I could! I was just looking for advice / insight on how to get someone out of the "customer -> rent boy" relationship, and make them realize that seeing it as more could be hugely beneficial to them. I mean, I could change this kid's life (and his family's life) forever, raise their standard of living for the better, etc. But trying to get these guys to view me as a human instead of a customer seems to be a little easier said than done.

As for the 3000 baht/night thing being too much, I understand what you guys mean, and I'm sure you're right, but I see it differently. I'm not hurting for cash, and 3000 means nothing to me, whereas to him it's huge. The reason for that is because I'm trying to "wow" him. That's what anyone starting a relationship anywhere in the world does, right? At first you sweep them off their feet, and later on it settles down, right?

And SF farang, no, I'm hardly a control freak. If anything, I'm the total opposite. I get pissed off when people aren't themselves.

Anyway, thanks for all the comments guys! Looks like there's nothing I don't already know. :-) No worries, and I'll get 'er figured! Cheers!

[Diec]

It looks to me cdmatt that you have found true love!! Do not let the naysayers on this forum tell you that you have not found true love with a 3 week bar boy. That love is out there, and you found it!! Congratulations!! I remember when I first met my future husband, I was his first customer ever and we ended up falling in love!!

It looks to me cdmatt that you have found true love!! Do not let the naysayers on this forum tell you that you have not found true love with a 3 week bar boy. That love is out there, and you found it!! Congratulations!! I remember when I first met my future husband, I was his first customer ever and we ended up falling in love!!

I second that-------theres nothing like a fresh hooker to get the juices flowing ukeright: ukeright: ukeright: ukeright: ukeright: ukeright:

[Smiles]

" ... As for the 3000 baht/night thing being too much, I understand what you guys mean, and I'm sure you're right, but I see it differently. I'm not hurting for cash, and 3000 means nothing to me, whereas to him it's huge. The reason for that is because I'm trying to "wow" him. That's what anyone starting a relationship anywhere in the world does, right? At first you sweep them off their feet, and later ... "

Normally I would think one would try sweeping someone else off their feet (at first anyway) by 'other means' than throwing cash at 'em. Maybe a little personality, a little fun together, a little gentleness, a little listening etc etc etc.
You've labeled yourself as an ATM already with the 3000 baht-a-day extravagance and that rep will be very difficult to turn around on a dime (so to speak).

The lack of a common language to learn about each other in is huge in my opinion, and starting out essentially mute ~ heady & heated with 'Relationship' in mind ~ right off the bat is easily disastrous, though not in every case ... good luck.
I am lucky enough to be in a very strong long-term love with a Thai guy (10 years this December, he brags :blackeye: ), but in all honesty I would say that the number one reason for it's longevity is his from-the-get-go facility in english. The downside of it is that it makes me lazy, but I'll live with that in the knowledge that he didn't have to break his butt learning the language for the sake of a relationship . . . he already had it within.

What you probably have going for you ~ perhaps the only thing besides the ATM card ~ is your relatively young age. There's a small chance that he might well fall head over heels for you no matter what the language barrier. But Gone Fishing makes a very good point to keep in mind: you will be seen as a great status-enhancer in the eyes of the guy's friends, if only for the young age. Make no mistake about it, this social dynamic is extremely important to Thai people, and so many westerners ignore ~ or don't comprehend ~ it's very deep pervasiveness in Thai life.

SMILES knows all about Thai relationships, he wooed his elderly boy with a pickup truck ( no cash involved there) :argue: :argue: :argue: :argue: