San Francisco

I wonder how many people really know or understand San Francisco.

I am a California boy myself, but spent my life in La Jolla and Santa Barbara (and a bit in L.A.) I only moved to SF when I was compelled to do so by my former BF's need for an American education. I was coming from a life in Chiang Mai and had nothing. Fortunately, my old friend from Iran was now a landlord and had a studio available for me. I bought a bed and went to work...in Oakland.

This means that I got up in the morning, took a Muni bus from the Haight down to Civic Center, and then took BART to Oakland. The reverse in the evening, of course. I was working for a software startup called Forte Software, Inc.. Virtually nobody in SF understood the meaning of this.

I was already well aware of SF's self-promotion as a "gay Mecca." On weekends, I would take the bus (or later, my little old Toyota) over to the Castro and visit there. I found a lot of "professional homosexuals" living there, including the guys wearing leather pants with the bare ass showing.

It may have been a "gay Mecca," but I found neither sex nor friends there. On the contrary, I soon settled into a ghastly solitude of work-sleep-work. I spent more time with my Thai bf (on the phone) than I did with any gay American living in "the gay Mecca." Including my bearded friend from Iran.

Well, by then I was 46 years old. I guess the gay folks were right to count me out. Even in "the gay Mecca."

And then! My boyfriend arrived, a lovely young man from Thailand who had just finished high school and was ready to embark on his college education! He was not quite 21, and therefore couldn't get into the gay bars in "the gay Mecca." But he did manage to meet some gay people, at milk bars, etc., and I was surprised to discover first-hand evidence of American racism!

The first example was the worst. Some dude, 30yo, who used my former BF to help him move (in South San Francisco) and then dumped him, the very next day!

I mean, can you imagine? A really cute guy, running around SF, and being treated as a mere "Asian??"

Sometime after that, the former BF looked at me seriously, and said, "Henry, do you think of me as 'your Asian lover?' " I replied, "No, never, I only think of you as [name deleted]." Which was the simple truth.

As the three years wore on, [name deleted] grew sick and tired of the SF gay scene. Beyond that, as an acting major, he simply couldn't get roles in student productions (he had an accent, and did not look like Johnny Walton). So he decided to finish his college education in Thailand. It was a good decision (for him).

But San Francisco? The one memory which stands indelible for me is the GLARES we got in the Castro when we walked along together. ("Read my lips, this boy is way too YOUNG for you!") And then he had a very good idea...we would walk "together," but with him six paces or so in front, so we would not appear as a "couple."

And then the cruising started! Talk about middle-class American hypocrisy at its finest! "This boy is way too young for YOU, but he looks just about right for ME!"

And for final hilarity, there was the lesbian who cruised him. She thought she was looking at a tom-boy, and circled in on him. At the last moment, something must have tipped her off ("This is a male!") and she retreated in horror.

Politically, SF is one of most idiotic cities in the world.

Now it's your turn!

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[thrillbill]

-Interesting insight. I am from the States, but have never experienced the San Francisco scene but I think what you say fits many gay cities in America(and it doesn't have to be in the "gay" scene). The American culture places too much of a wall around age groups... a 20 something year old looks at a 40 year old (or a 40 something year old looks at a 20 year old) as a seperate society, as if there is nothing to be shared between the two age ranges. Heaven forbid if you are caught socializing with someone where there is a 20...30... year age difference. We at times are too judgemental-me included. It IS POSSIBLE to make gay friends of all ages in the US, but it doesn't come easily. That is what is refreshing in LOS, there is a different attitude towards older vs younger; younger vs older --not a big wall between the generations in knowing one another at a social basis. (and I find it genuine, not just for money). I enjoy being with a mix group of ages in a group when going out-it keeps us more in touch.

PS what happened to the "old" Thai BF that is now back in Thailand?

I wonder how many people really know or understand San Francisco....

Well Honey, you're obviously not one of them!

...I found neither sex nor friends there. On the contrary, I soon settled into a ghastly solitude of work-sleep-work....

Well then you only have yourself to blame.

I'm not sure when you were around but I'm guessing the early to mid 90's? Unfortunately you (and I) missed all the really wild and fun times of the 70's before AIDS hit the place like a Nutron Bomb. The Gay scene here was very dark and dismal in the 80's and early 90's. Then the Dot.com boom hit and the new antiviral cocktails became avaliable and the place came to life again. The Castro has never really recovered though and there is much discussion about its "gentrification". It is much as you described it. But it still has the biggest concentration of Gay Bars in the city The "Gay Scene" has spread out mostly to the South of Market, Polk St and even in the gritty Tenderloin.

Of course the "gay scene" is nothing like Thailand. There are no "host bars" or "go-go bars" even thought there are "money boys" around. There are only 2 "sex clubs" (that i know of) and there's always Craigslist. In other words its not an open air brothel like Pattaya.

But is a "Gay Mecca" only measured by the avaliability of easy/cheap sex?

The last figure I saw was that 40% of the population here identifies as LGBT. There is a sensibility that pervades the place that its ok to be gay and go about your life. You can get a job without worries. Everywhere you go to shop or eat is filled with "family" and you never feel awkward. You and your hubby can buy a house and get married and have kids without the neighbors raising an eyebrow.

.... The one memory which stands indelible for me is the GLARES we got in the Castro when we walked along together. ("Read my lips, this boy is way too YOUNG for you!") And then he had a very good idea...we would walk "together," but with him six paces or so in front, so we would not appear as a "couple."

And then the cruising started! .....

:cheers: Yes, Queens are the same all over the world, aren't they? :laughing3:

.... Politically, SF is one of most idiotic cities in the world....

Yes, and among other things we'll be voting in November on legalizing Prostitution. Oh, and also naming the Sewer Plant after George Bush (I kid you not!) :occasion8:

Sorry Henry, you're just a so. cal. right wing fuddy-duddy and you just don't get it.

And believe it or not there's still an old time San Francisco can-do spirit that pervades the place. It's a left wing Labor spirit. The sprit that rebuilt the city after the the Great Earthquake and Fire of 1906. The spirit that built the Liberty Ships at the Kaiser plant that helped win WW2. The spirit that turned a goldmining boomtown into "the Paris of the West".
(you didn't think you'd get away without one of KenC's Fri night youtube clips did you?)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-riSwIev23U&feature=PlayList&p=64220A531D66BC1D&ind ex=30[/youtube]

The Denouement after the last youtube clip

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAoNDihnfbc&feature=PlayList&p=64220A531D6 6BC1D&index=3[/youtube]

A little bit after I wrote this we just had a small earthquake....


Small SF earthquake

Well, kenc, how would you define a "Gay Mecca?"

But is a "Gay Mecca" only measured by the avaliability of easy/cheap sex?

Well, that's certainly one thing to take into consideration. I spent five lonely years in San Francisco. You say that that's all my fault, but try to forget your defensive crouch for a moment. My BOYFRIEND also spent five lonely years in San Francisco. At the end of the third year, as a devastatingly cute Thai boy, he was simply boiling over with enthusiasm to get back to Thailand. I guess that was all his fault, too.

You say, with the same breath, that SF is extraordinarily tolerant of gays, and yet admit that bf and I got a lot of hostile glares in the Castro. Your comment, "Well, aren't queens the same everywhere?"

No. They may be the same all over America, but the situation in Thailand is utterly different. In Chiang Mai, if I go walking around with my bf (who looks about 16 but is now 23 going on 24) I may get one or two glances from Thai people, who quickly return to their own business when they see & realize that we have known one another forever, are very comfortable in one another's company, and so on. The real Glares come from @Fat White Cows, who sometimes even Glare at me walking around by myself! I used to wonder about that, until I realized that there was an entire @Fat White Cow community dedicated to the proposition that all single men living in Thailand are Evil.

Sometimes, particularly clueless hippie farang backpacker boys give me the Glare, also, if they see me with my boyfriend. Amazing...even if they are Swedish....maybe Political Correctness trumps Freedom.

Anyway, kenc, I think you are a great contributor to this board, and even though you stated something like, "Henry is a clueless idiot," cheers! After all, I live HERE and you live THERE. :-) :-) :-) :-)

ttfn,

[Davey612]

Henry, I have no idea what you are trying to say. You spent five miserable years here and you are trying to blame everyone else.

Do you think you would have fared better in any other American city?

The issue is that you claim you and your partner are viewed different, but have you tried joining other groups? San Francisco is not a perfect gay utopia but you would certainly find a group to belong. Pacific Friends comes to mind. But then maybe you are afraid that those older white gay guys would be after your young Thai bf.

I am glad that you are happy in CM. But let me ask you why? Is it because of CM or because of you?

... clearly all the women (including the drag queens) would be wearing the burkha

[Wesley]

I dont even try in the usa, I am afraid of Fox's Mr Bill

Wes

Ok I get it. You didn't like San Francisco. Chiang Mai is your little piece of heaven.
And so....??

Sure, I'll be the first to admit if you're a 60 year old guy looking for sex with lots of cute asian guys this is not the place for you. This is NOT Thailand and you won't find the same kind of thing here, or anywhere in the west except maybe Amsterdam.
And yes, if you are not of a Liberal frame of mind politically you will not have a good time here either any more than I would have a nice time in, oh I dunno, Houston or Salt Lake City.

When I think about what you posted I realize you could be a poster child for all those dot.com'ers that blew into town in the 90's. A lot of them came here thinking they were Masters of the Universe and were going to change the world and make a shitload of money to boot. Instead of coming to embrace the local culture they brought their own little bubble of whatever with them and stayed in it all the time they were here. They buried themselves in their work and when they did come up for air I found them not to be very "fun" to be around.
And when the bubble popped some were able to cash out with oodles of money but all of them just left without making a mark on the culture and with the rest of us scratching out heads wondering what it was all about.
And I say again, anyone who didn't have fun when they were here only have themselves to blame (esp with all the money they were making).

I realize not everyone who comes here is going to like it. Your Thai boyfriend might have done better in LA with it's large Thai expat community - though I doubt you would have had much fun in West Hollywood.
And not everyone who goes to Chiang Mai is going to like it there either.

Oh and BTW, I never said you were "a clueless idiot". I said you were a nut.
And politically I still think you are. :geek: