Bashing the Bishop - What a Burhka!

I can't (and won't) speak for YardenUK but for me this thread has never been about the merits or otherwise of what the Archbishop said, but about whether he has a right, as Archbishop, to express such views. Those who believe he has not belong to a long tradition stretching back at least as far as Henry II and Thomas a Becket; commonly whenever a cleric makes statements that conservatives deem to be outside what they interpret as "the role of the church" eg. social justice, there's the sort of hue and cry that we've seen over the last few days (and in Becket's case he was murdered to shut him up). As a agnostic I think the Archbishop's views are pernicious because they reinforce the view that religion has a special place in society and should therefore enjoy tax exemption and so on as well as (in this case) its own court system. We did away with that sort of thing with the Reformation

But did the English really have a reformation or did they just accommodate a King.

[Marsilius]

While the Henrician Reformation (from about 1529 onwards) was mainly concerned with politics and, specifically, the king's desire to annul his marriage to Catherine of Aragon, there was indeed a subsequent and genuine English Protestant Reformation (underground until 1547 but then official after the accession of Edward VI).

saw this on the UK's Channel 4 news website - a nice way to lighten up the furore :compress:

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/s ... or/1545747

[Aunty]

PM protests over Afghan death sentence
6:16PM Saturday February 16, 2008

The New Zealand Government has protested to Afghanistan over the death sentence handed down for a Afghan journalism student.

Sayed Parweiz Kambakhsh was sentenced to death last month for distributing a report considered to be blasphemous and offensive to Islam.

"We are deeply concerned by the sentence passed on this young man for exercising freedom of speech," Prime Minister Helen Clark said this morning.

"Mr Kambakhsh's detention and trial have been marked by a number of irregularities, including the fact he had no legal counsel."

Miss Clark said the New Zealand ambassador in Tehran had made representations to the Afghanistan government.

The student had used a report on women's rights in Islam during lectures at Balkh University in Mazar-i-Sharif in northern Afghanistan.

He is appealing the sentence and his case has been taken up by the United States and Britain.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/sto ... d=10492855

Helen Clark is a bit slow on the uptake - this was reported on the BBC on 23 Jan - but they also said that the guy will likely be pardoned as he still has a number of appeal procedures to go through and in the end even the President can nullify the sentence (which he is likely to do under enormous international pressure).

If he isn't pardoned, maybe we should try and arrange for the Archbishop of Canterbury to fly out and offer him some anglican blessings? :geek:

[Aunty]

I have held off replying to this thread to see if there were any more contributions to it from others.

I really donтАЩt have much to add to what Ronan has said above who has adroitly picked up on the points I have made and developed them further. He understands the issues, whereas sadly others here clearly do not.

While I was not actually trying to personalise my posts above, if they nevertheless came across that way I make no apology for it. This is not an abstract argument. The abuse of men and women by Islam and its Shariah courts all around the world are not abstract arguments either, for the those involved it is personal for them. Just try and tell Sayed Kambakhsh (see above) that he should not тАШpersonaliseтАЩ his issues with Islam, otherwise his arguments and positions are тАШinvalidтАЩ as he is engaging in little more than personal attacks, and one can see that such a charge is little more than a cop out.

In contrast to modern Christianity, Islam still requires the death or imprisonment of homosexuals. Why would any thoughtful and self-respecting British gay man want to allow a foreign religion that requires his death to be given a foot in the door of the centuriesтАЩ evolved British legal system? If Shariah courts are allowed, how long will it be before Muslims demand to be excused, on religious grounds, from adherence to the anti-discriminatory laws that protect homosexuals in the UK? When will they demand to be allowed to not employ gay men and women, or to provide them with housing or professional services all in the name of Islam? Rather than giving in to the current practices and interpretations of Islam by Muslims, I would suggest that the British public actually digs its toes in and says no, we donтАЩt need Shariah courts; Islam needs to reform to the modern age. And the Archbishop of Canterbury would do better in calling for the reformation of Islam, than pandering to its тАШinevitabilityтАЩ in modern British life.

You know over the years I attended many conferences, symposium, lectures, presentations etc., where scientists have presented their work and ideas to their peers and wider audiences. At the end of a talk it is customary to take questions form the audience. As you can imagine the presenters work is often vigorously challenged, debated, questioned at length and at depth, and heated disagreements, all in public view, are quite common. Can you imagine if, in response to a member of the audienceтАЩs question or comment about a presenterтАЩs work, that person replied тАЬas a matter of interest why do some members of this audience view differing opinions as a virtual all-out declaration of war - do the accepted rules of debate not apply to science fora?

It is a bit pathetic that people seem to go on the attack all the time, with snide comments and quasi-pompous put-downs. It is not surprising, yet very sad, that out of the thousands of people who read these boards, only a handful bother to contribute.тАЭ

Apart from destroying their credibility, that person would be laughed out of the room with many saying, donтАЩt bitch, answer the question. If your argument and data are that good it will stand up to scrutiny. WonтАЩt it?