This rumor/thread in ThaiVisa is gonna scare and piss off lots of us

[Dodger]

On another thread of yours about the expat population decreasing some that are unable to get insurance are returning to their home country ie.U.S. and U.K.where they can get medicaid or in the case of the U.K. free care via the N.H.S.

My best friend from Ireland has been coming to Thailand regularity (twice per year) for over 25 years and would retire here in a heartbeat if he could, but he gets free heath care coverage in his home country and admits to not being able to afford coverage at his age over here. He knows he could have been using "agents" but doesn't like the risk involved - not knowing how long these agents will be providing this service. I don't blame him a bit.

Personally, (and you and I have talked about this before), I don't know how anyone could retire and reside in a foreign country without having adequate health insurance. You and I agreed on this the last time we talked about it (10 years ago)...and I think those without coverage are starting to regret some of the decisions they made back when they were a bit younger.

For anyone, making a decision to retire and live in a foreign country, especially a disjointed third-world country like Thailand, without having the necessary funds to support themselves, has always been at the center of this. The Catch 22 is when a foreign expat returns to his home country because he can receive free (or low cost) health insurance - only to find that the cost-of-living has increased 10 fold since he was last there and he still struggles to make ends meet. Not an easy solution, that's for sure.

[StevieWonders]

My best friend from Ireland has been coming to Thailand regularity (twice per year) for over 25 years and would retire here in a heartbeat if he could, but he gets free heath care coverage in his home country and admits to not being able to afford coverage at his age over here. He knows he could have been using "agents" but doesn't like the risk involved - not knowing how long these agents will be providing this service. I don't blame him a bit.

Personally, (and you and I have talked about this before), I don't know how anyone could retire and reside in a foreign country without having adequate health insurance. You and I agreed on this the last time we talked about it (10 years ago)...and I think those without coverage are starting to regret some of the decisions they made back when they were a bit younger.

For anyone, making a decision to retire and live in a foreign country, especially a disjointed third-world country like Thailand, without having the necessary funds to support themselves, has always been at the center of this. The Catch 22 is when a foreign expat returns to his home country because he can receive free (or low cost) health insurance - only to find that the cost-of-living has increased 10 fold since he was last there and he still struggles to make ends meet. Not an easy solution, that's for sure.

As I recall there was some discussion when the mandatory health insurance requirement was introduced whether the Thais would introduce a substantial bond to cover future hospitalisation costs for those unable to get insurance, but i don't recall any firm action on this

[Blueskytoday]

One of the ONLY countries requiring Insurance for entry......Wake up TH.....just another rip off..

[StevieWonders]

One of the ONLY countries requiring Insurance for entry......Wake up TH.....just another rip off..

Oh god, she's off again

[Gaybutton]

introduce a substantial bond to cover future hospitalisation costs for those unable to get insurance, but i don't recall any firm action on this

Neither do I. I don't understand why Thailand has not established some sort of means by which banks could hold a certain amount of money in escrow accounts for people who want to self-insure. I would think the banks would like that idea and the hospitals could directly bill such accounts.

Unless I'm missing something, I would think some sort of system like that would make sense for people who would want to do that.

[StevieWonders]

Neither do I. I don't understand why Thailand has not established some sort of means by which banks could hold a certain amount of money in escrow accounts for people who want to self-insure. I would think the banks would like that idea and the hospitals could directly bill such accounts.

Unless I'm missing something, I would think some sort of system like that would make sense for people who would want to do that.

I'm not sure that it would necessarily work exactly as you describe - perhaps you're thinking of how "Health Savings Accounts" work in the US? I envisage that the patient would incur the costs and would pay them by credit or debit card from current savings but would only access the escrow account funds if unable to pay out of current savings

One slightly encouraging development I see, not really for retirees, is the new 300 baht arrival tax which supposedly includes a "hospital insurance" element. It will be interesting to see if this applies only to those who arrive on certain visa types or as visa exempt. For the 30-day visa exempt passenger it only amounts to 10 baht per day of insurance, presumably in some sort of insurance pool. I see the introduction has been delayed a couple of months as the mechanism to collect it hasn't yet been finalised. Some of my visiting friends who come for just a few weeks are 75+ and find it difficult or too expensive to get travel insurance from their home country, so this seems a worthwhile proposal for them, if it works as might be assumed. I understand this is mostly for those who "did a runner" which Thai hospitals claim is a frequent occurrence

[NitNoi]

I "self insure" and would not be happy leaving (say) $50k in escrow. My reserves are gainfully employed, not being eroded by inflation in a bank.

[Gaybutton]

I'm not sure that it would necessarily work exactly as you describe

I'm also not sure. But what I am sure about is if Thailand will allow people to self-insure, they'll only do it if they come up with some way to guarantee the money will be there if necessary. This whole insurance problem is the result of some foreigners skipping the country instead of paying their hospital bills. So, Thailand wants to make sure the hospitals will be paid, especially since they want to make Thailand a "medical tourism hub".

Meanwhile, the vast majority of us who do hold adequate insurance and pay our bills end up getting penalized due to the actions of a few. Isn't that the basis for the 800,000 baht requirement for those of us on a retirement visa? However, contrary to the OP's friend, I see nothing to indicate that, or anything else, is going to be raised.

In my opinion, a person would be at the top of the "damned fool" list if he lives in a foreign country or even visits a foreign country without adequate medical coverage, especially if they are getting on in years.

[Dodger]

There were comments made by the Health Minister and various Immigration officials in early 2021 hinting at the prospect of allowing those who were unable to obtain health insurance to hold a predetermined amount of money in the bank to cover medical costs as an option for renewing visa extensions.

They are not suggesting "escrow accounts", merely a minimum amount of money maintained in a persons normal bank account during the year to cover medical expenses if needed. I don't believe there has been any mention of what that amount may be as of yet. If this option becomes available, it is, in essense, the same as being self-insured.

Note, that originally the changes we're talking about were slated to be implemented in October, 2021 but got delayed because of Covid. That includes the requirement for O-A visa holders to have an increased amount of 3M health insurance coverage by Oct 2021 - which was also delayed until Oct of this year (2022) for the same reason.

All indications are, at least from the discussions taking place between interested parties in early 2021, that the Health Ministry and Immigration are fully aware of the need to provide workable options for elderly expats who are currently residing in Thailand on extensions. Contrary to what some seem to think, I don't believe they have any interest whatsoever in kicking elderly expats out of the Kingdom, just raising the bar (financially) for foreigners wanting to retire in Thailand in the future.

My personal opinion on this (for what it's worth) is that expats who have been retired here for several years (or more), who have been receiving extensions on a continual basis, and who don't have any immigration violations in their history, don't have much to worry about. Immigration in Thailand has always allowed itself the legal flexibility to handle each case as they see fit. The exception I believe would be an expat who is, for any reason, deemed by Immigration as being undesirable.

[StevieWonders]

I'm also not sure. But what I am sure about is if Thailand will allow people to self-insure, they'll only do it if they come up with some way to guarantee the money will be there if necessary. This whole insurance problem is the result of some foreigners skipping the country instead of paying their hospital bills. So, Thailand wants to make sure the hospitals will be paid, especially since they want to make Thailand a "medical tourism hub".

Meanwhile, the vast majority of us who do hold adequate insurance and pay our bills end up getting penalized due to the actions of a few. Isn't that the basis for the 800,000 baht requirement for those of us on a retirement visa? However, contrary to the OP's friend, I see nothing to indicate that, or anything else, is going to be raised.

In my opinion, a person would be at the top of the "damned fool" list if he lives in a foreign country or even visits a foreign country without adequate medical coverage, especially if they are getting on in years.

While I agree in principle with what you say, AFAIK there's only one country whose private insurers have "anywhere in the world" cover, and that's the USA. The availability of insurance at such a reasonable cost just doesn't exist for citizens of countries (mostly EU) who have the equivalent of the UK's National Health Service or have access to a Reciprocal Health Care Agreement outside Thailand. A friend of mine from Australia investigated using Australian health insurance in Thailand and found the issue is that Australian health insurance premiums attract a tax deduction, and the government quite simply won't support or allow a tax deduction for something that incurs costs outside Australia. Longer term the solution is for those countries to enter into a Reciprocal Health Care Agreement with Thailand, but given the lack of the equivalent of a Thai NHS that's a long way in the future