The Brink of War?

[cdnmatt]

Do you have relatives in Ukraine? Do they tell yo what they want? No? Well...

Once again, how many people have to die before you get it through your thick skull they don't want you there? If they wanted you there, they wouldn't be retooling their breweries from beer to molotovs.

[Moses]

Once again, how many people have to die before you get it through your thick skull they don't want you there? If they wanted you there, they wouldn't be retooling their breweries from beer to molotovs.

For sure less, than died in Yugoslavia, or Iraq, or Libya...

[cdnmatt]

For sure less, than died in Yugoslavia, or Iraq, or Libya...

NATO already has loads of troops stationed on Ukraine's border. I'd love to see them go in and tell Russia to fuck off. At least NATO troops would be welcomed by the population, unlike Russian soldiers.

[cdnmatt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tcUMsD4uO8

Too bad I'm blind, because those photos sound cool.

Hey Moses, this is not how people who want to be liberated from Nazis act!

[Moses]

NATO already has loads of troops stationed on Ukraine's border. I'd love to see them go in and tell Russia to fuck off. At least NATO troops would be welcomed by the population, unlike Russian soldiers.

NATO already clearly declared, what this is not NATO's conflict. And even told to Poland not to send old Russian aircrafts MIG-29 to Ukraine.

Matt, you are living in dreams. Ukraine isn't subject but is object in this conflict. I wrote that even before military operation. There will be a lot of propaganda from both sides, but at the end nobody will stay for Ukraine.

Russia wants neutral "finlandizied" country on own border, without Nazi and NATO's bases, where all minors groups have freedom to use own languages. EU wants resources from Russia. These 2 factors will be main for final results in the conflict. Rest is just words.

[Surfcrest]

I can’t see any advantages to Russia being cut off from world trade and with the Rubel currently bordering on worthlessness. 25 years of economic gain, wiped away in such a short period of time. Militarily, Russia has suffered so much loss for so little gain. And now, because Putin’s big ego is on the line, there is little room for a gracious exit strategy. Bombing hospitals isn’t helping his cause any. And with big international business pulling out of Russia, it sends a message to Russians, cut off from anything but State News, that what’s happening in the Ukraine is bigger than what they are being told by the State. Sad that diplomacy and dialogue weren’t able to avoid, what appears to have been completely avoidable.

Surfcrest

[Moses]

I can’t see any advantages to Russia being cut off from world trade and with the Rubel currently bordering on worthlessness. 25 years of economic gain, wiped away in such a short period of time. Militarily, Russia has suffered so much loss for so little gain. And now, because Putin’s big ego is on the line, there is little room for a gracious exit strategy. Bombing hospitals isn’t helping his cause any. And with big international business pulling out of Russia, it sends a message to Russians, cut off from anything but State News, that what’s happening in the Ukraine is bigger than what they are being told by the State. Sad that diplomacy and dialogue weren’t able to avoid, what appears to have been completely avoidable.

Surfcrest

this picture isn't real reflection of how is going here...

for example most of Western companies not "puling out" but postpone operations till the end of military conflict - they will have huge losses if they will really pull out - factories, property and so on...

but yes, conflict was easy avoidable if Ukraine canceled "language law" and just implemented Minsk protocol which was signed and ratified by Ukraine in 2014... Russia waited for that 8 years.

[cdnmatt]

I can’t see any advantages to Russia being cut off from world trade and with the Rubel currently bordering on worthlessness. 25 years of economic gain, wiped away in such a short period of time. Militarily, Russia has suffered so much loss for so little gain. And now, because Putin’s big ego is on the line, there is little room for a gracious exit strategy. Bombing hospitals isn’t helping his cause any. And with big international business pulling out of Russia, it sends a message to Russians, cut off from anything but State News, that what’s happening in the Ukraine is bigger than what they are being told by the State. Sad that diplomacy and dialogue weren’t able to avoid, what appears to have been completely avoidable.

Surfcrest

The best we can hope for is the Russian people rise up, and kick Putin to the curb. A whole lot easier said than done, but that's what needs to happen now. Putin started this shit, but I'm absolutely certain the West will not rest until he's removed from power.

It's sad to see, you know? So much pain and sufferring on all sides, and all for no reason. I guess it breathed new life into the resolve of the West and NATO which is cool to see, but not at this cost.

[Surfcrest]

for example most of Western companies not "puling out" but postpone operations till the end of military conflict - they will have huge losses if they will really pull out - factories, property and so on....

I don’t think anyone in the West is under the illusion that these businesses are going to come back or that sanctions will be lessened any, no matter what happens. The damage has been done. Steps are already being taken to wean Europe from Russian energy…and that’s not likely to be reversed, once the ball starts rolling with that. NATO was a stupid reason to start a war…or invasion…or whatever it’s being labeled as, but we’re long past that now. The world will never be the same and no where is that going to be more evident than in Russia from now into the foreseeable future.

Surfcrest

[cdnmatt]

Yeah, there wil be no victors in this war. Very sad, and completely unnecessary. I always like to look for the silver lining in things, and all I came come up with are:

1. Various European countries have announced they will vastly bolster their defense spending making EU a world super power in terms of military might.
2. The West has shown its resolve, which will hopefully give China pause before they start any of the bullshit we all know they have planned.
3. Once the dust settles, hopefully Ukraine will get fast tracked into EU and NATO membership giving Ukrainians the peace and security the deserve.
4. If we get really lucky, maybe Russians will wake the fuck up, have a revolution and kick cleptocrats like Putin to the curb.

This whole war is just stupid. I wish NATO would go ahead and call Russia's bluff, and just go in to secure Ukraine and give it back to the people. Fuck Putin, and his delusional desires.