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Thread: The Brink of War?

  1. #2391
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    Re: The Brink of War?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
    You have no idea about Ukrainian history and sucking "history" from middle finger. Ukraine lost neutral status in eyes of Russia in 2021 when included NATO membership into constitution.
    I suggest you stop being rude and offensive (which reveals so much about you), and start your own reading of Ukrainian history (and perhaps Russian history) - because there is so much wrong with your reply.

    Read, e.g., "Ukraine Votes To Abandon Neutrality, Set Sights On NATO," December 23, 2014 13:26 GMT (https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-parl.../26758725.html). The report includes the reason why Ukraine's parliament so voted in 2014: "The legislative amendment submitted by President Petro Poroshenko last week was approved with 303 "yes" votes in the 450-seat Verkhovna Rada on December 23.
    A note explaining the changes in Ukraine's law on domestic and foreign policy said that the "non-bloc" status codified under then-President Viktor Yanukovych in 2010 had left Ukraine vulnerable to "external aggression and pressure."
    It said that "the Russian Federation's aggression against Ukraine, its illegal annexation of Crimea...its military intervention in eastern regions" and other forms of pressure created the need for "more effective guarantees of independence, sovereignty, security, and territorial integrity."
    The pro-Western leaders who came to power after Yanukovych fled in the face of protests last February have spoken for months of plans to renounce the neutral status, which prevented Ukraine from seeking NATO membership.
    Kyiv and NATO accuse Russia of providing direct military support to pro-Russian separatists who have seized parts of two provinces in eastern Ukraine and fought government forces in a conflict that has killed more than 4,700 people since April."

    The Ukrainian parliament adopted an amendment to its Constitution on Feburary 7, 2019 (not 2021). The amendment did/does not specify any particular dates or efforts in this regard. However, it clearly states that it is no longer possible to not move the country closer to the West. Consequently, any attempts by politicians to change the course of Ukraine towards Russia will be treated as a violation of the Constitution of Ukraine. It will make any attempts to reorient the country back toward Russia impossible.
    In addition, this amendment removes a clause in the Constitution that allowed the Russian military to have access to Ukrainian military bases. Specifically, the Russian Navy will no longer have access to any Ukrainian Navy ports, including the ports in Crimea where the Russians now have vessels stationed. See, e.g., "Ukrainian Parliament Amends Constitution to Set Path for EU and NATO Membership" (https://uatv.ua/en/ukrainian-parliam...to-membership/).

    In other words, until Russia illegally annexed Crimea in 2014, Ukraine was, or a least regarded itself as, neutral with a non-bloc status that prevented it seeking NATO membership, which prompted the first amendment. The continued annexation and attitude of Russia prompted the second amendment.

    On 18 February 2022, a German blog (https://verfassungsblog.de/would-ukr...-its-nato-bid/) published an article entitled "Would Ukraine Breach its own Constitution if it Dropped its NATO Bid?" The article concluded: "As of now, Ukraine is bound by its Constitution and stepping back from its NATO aspirations does not seem to be a real prospect. That said Ukraine may be coming close to a fork in the road where it may be forced (by Russia or even its Western allies) to choose between fully upholding the Constitution (as amended in 2019) and protecting the territorial integrity of the State. One can only hope that the diplomatic efforts of the last few days will prove to be successful thus overcoming what would be a lose-lose situation for Ukraine and its people."

    Shortly after that, of course, Russia began its euphemistically termed "special military operation."

  2. User who gave Like to post:

    Ruthrieston (October 16th, 2022)

  3. #2392
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    Re: The Brink of War?

    Apparently, there's now green on green attacks at Russian military training camps. Russia calls them terrorist acts, but I'm assuming it's just people pissed off because they got conscripted.

    Now the Russians are killing themselves....

  4. #2393
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    Re: The Brink of War?

    Without a Military that's highly-trained, well-equipped, extremely motivated, being led by extremely competent officers, winning a war against a modernized military that's well-financed, well-equipped, with highly motivated soldiers led by competent officers, supported by military intelligence and special forces input/oversight from 30 galvanized nations, achieving a military victory is IMPOSSIBLE.

    Putin and his military leaders know this now. The oligarchs and brain power of Russia have known this for the past 7 months. The tens of thousands of Russians (mostly highly educated) who are fleeing Russia know this...and worst of all, the soldiers who lack training and any/all motivation to enter Putin's war know this better than anyone. NATO and the UN know this. Ukraine knows this, The U.S. knows this. China and India know this.

    Who does that leave?

  5. 2 Users gave Like to post:

    arsenal (October 16th, 2022), Ruthrieston (October 16th, 2022)

  6. #2394
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    Re: The Brink of War?

    This whole thing is just stupid. Moses, if you're so insistent that Russia is so awesome, why don't you strap on a rifle and head to Easstern Ukraine? From the sounds of things, Russia needs all the soldiers it can get.

  7. User who gave Like to post:

    Oel (October 16th, 2022)

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    Re: The Brink of War?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dodger View Post
    Who does that leave?
    Hmmm.... let me guess. Frosty the Snowman?

    Problem right now is Putin is backed into a corner, because he knows full well how the Russian populous responds to a failed leader. I don't see an exit ramp for him here, so not sure what he's going to do.

  9. User who gave Like to post:

    Ruthrieston (October 17th, 2022)

  10. #2396
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    Re: The Brink of War?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dodger View Post
    Who does that leave?
    Maybe what, not who, does that leave?

    Götterdämmerung: a collapse (as of a society or regime) marked by catastrophic violence and disorder.

  11. 2 Users gave Like to post:

    Dodger (October 17th, 2022), Ruthrieston (October 17th, 2022)

  12. #2397
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    Re: The Brink of War?


  13. #2398
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    Re: The Brink of War?

    145:22 Matt... 145:22
    Bali (Indonesia), Cambodia, Myanmar, Philippines, Thailand, Vietnam and Laos: gay guides and companions http://siamroads.com

  14. #2399
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    Re: The Brink of War?

    Think whatever you want Moses. You're forgetting the entire Western world and NATO is behind Ukraine.

    The US is already heavily involved in this war, and they're better at war than Russia is, quite obviously. Most likely, it was the US that blew up Nordstream 1 pipeline, plus the bridge in Crimea.

    Always remember, Russia is the one who started this war, not the West. If you Russians want to live in abject poverty for the next couple generations, that's kind of on you guys for not marching on the Kremlin. We're still waiting for you guys to march on the Kemlin and tell Putin he's out of a job btw.... seems like Russians have decided to flee the country in a mass exodus instead, so whatever, we'll work with that too.

  15. #2400
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    Re: The Brink of War?

    I'm curious Moses, what in your mind is victory? What does the Russian military need to accomplish for you to conclude Russia has been victourious in the war?

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