The Brink of War?

[Dragonman]

Correct. Deflation for Russia means prices are going lower and that is good for people. And nobody cares here about unemployment rate since for many not years but centuries Russia has deficit of workforce. It is because of territory size. Even at most critical crisis like it was in 2008/2009 here never been unemployment rate higher than 9% - and this number was so high only because some cities are here "monocity" - i.e. city with one huge manufacturing plant where all citizens are working, at time of crisis unemployment rate in such cities may be even 20%. Typical unemployment rate in Moscow is around -2% (yes, minus).

Speaking about "higher inflation than OECD", we here know for what we are "paying" - for Russians in Ukraine, for safety of our relatives, for Crimea as a "whole Russia" resort, for elimination of Nazi, for additional territories which may join Russia. Also, crisis 2004, 2008, Crimean crisis 2014 were fixed quickly by Russian Central bank and govt within 1 year, so we know what to expect, we see already ruble is 25% stronger than year ago, import is cheaper 25% than year ago.

For what pay citizens of Western countries after stupid political decisions of their governments?

As usual, claims without source.

World Bank data (https://data.worldbank.org/indicator...&start=1990%0D) state that since 2000, the unemployment rate in Russia has varied from 10.58 % in 2000 to 5.2 % in 2020 during the first wave of the coronavirus pandemic, and 4.2% in the first quarter of this year. Current figures are unavailable.

In discussing the unemployment rate in Russia, one has to consider a tactic that is used in Russia – and Japan – to reduced unemployment by spreading the pain. Since 2014, Russian employers have responded to crises by cutting wages rather than laying off workers off. As a result, the effect on income was spread more or less equally across all employees, rather than being concentrated among those who lost their jobs. That is, people did the same work under the same conditions but for lower pay or salary. Therefore, focusing on low unemployment rates as an example of the effect of Western sanctions on Russia is misleading.

Consider, however, the number of Russians living below the poverty line. In the first quarter of 2022, 14.3% of the resident population of Russia, or 21 million people, already lived under the poverty line (Statista Research Department, Jun 15, 2022). Later figures are, as yet unavailable. To compare that with the poverty rate in one of those countries that supports sanctions, the poverty rate in Taiwan in 2022 is 1.29% of the total population (https://bti-project.org › Home › Reports › Country Report). The seasonally adjusted unemployment rate in Taiwan went down to 3.68 percent in April of this year (https://tradingeconomics.com/taiwan/unemployment-rate).

In discussing inflation and deflation, consider the effect of sanctions on household debt in Russia. In 2019, it was reported on August 16, 2019 that "Every fifth Russian pays 30%-50% of total family income to loan — opinion poll," https://tass.com/society/1073646). Russia has a consumer debt problem as household debt amounts to around 19.5% of Russian nominal GDP. Russian Household Debt reached US$377.5 billion in April 2022, of which non-performing loans represent about 16.75% (https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicato...of-nominal-gdp). I believe that in April 2022, the Russian bank lending rate was 15.22%.

Consider, too, that Russian banks approved 37,200 mortgage loans totaling 130.5 billion rubles ($2 billion) in April 2022. This was a 75% drop from March, when banks issued 529.3 billion rubles ($8 billion) in mortgage loans, and a 77% drop in the number of mortgage loans. “It’s the largest fall in history,” Equifax CEO Oleg Lagutkin was quoted as saying, warning of a further decline in May” (https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/...ory-rbc-a77702).

Maybe the picture Russian life under inflation and deflation is not quite what you would like people to believe.

With regard to the rest of your posting on that Russians know they are paying for, much of what you wrote largely reproduces the imperial ambitions of Vladimir Putin as Peter the Great reincarnated (“Putin and Peter the Great: Russian leader likens himself to 18th Century tsar,” https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61767191). Consider, however, that Peter the Great was physically impressive, reportedly standing 2.03 meters (or 6 feet 8 inches) tall. Vladimir Putin claims to be 170.18 centimeters (or 5 feet 7 inches) tall but is known to wear shoes with 10.16 centimeter (4 inch) heels. History may record Putin as being more like Emperor Nicholas II, who was 1.7 meters tall but was known to his family was “Nicholas the Short.”

[Moses]

Consider, however, the number of Russians living below the poverty line. In the first quarter of 2022, 14.3% of the resident population of Russia, or 21 million people, already lived under the poverty line (Statista Research Department, Jun 15, 2022). Later figures are, as yet unavailable. To compare that with the poverty rate in one of those countries that supports sanctions, the poverty rate in Taiwan in 2022 is 1.29% of the total population (https://bti-project.org › Home › Reports › Country Report). The seasonally adjusted unemployment rate in Taiwan went down to 3.68 percent in April of this year (https://tradingeconomics.com/taiwan/unemployment-rate).[/url]).

To compare country by poverty lines - is most useless and only propagandistic task, because of fact what each country sets own "poverty line level". If Russia will set poverty line on $100 monthly, then below poverty line will be only few hundreds of people, maybe few thousands of whole population... if it will set it to $1,000,000 then almost 95% of population will be below of such line.

Current poverty line here is $264 per adult, $240 per kid, means monthly income for family with 2 kids should be below $1008 after taxation for to include this family in to "poor" group. Such families receive support from state, for example monthly payment "per kid" which depends on parents income may be from $140 up to $600 per kid (than less is income, then higher is monthly payment, than more kids are living in family, then higher is payment).

Almost all low class (by income) here lives in social state owned apartments (minimum 18 sq.meters per person, but not less than 33 sq.m for solo living person and 42 sq.m per pair), they spend on living in such apartments about $100 including utilities by social prices (cold and hot water, heating, electricity, and so on, and gas isn't metered) monthly. Moreover, after living 15-20 years (depends on region) in such apartments each citizen once in life may register it private and became owner (will pay property tax, prices for utilities will be higher), but also may sell, exchange or give to rent it. One more point about houses and apartments in Russia - if citizen became bankrupt no one creditor may take his home or apartment if it is only place of living for broken person.

Also, please take in calculation what education up to high school, medical insurance are free here. And medical insurance 100% covers all cases besides cosmetology, and also includes hospitals, vaccination, yearly vaccination and yearly check up. Meals in schools are free for all children up to 8th grade and free for kids from low income families up to 11th grade.

And one more: each state owned or private university or college here must have at least 50% of seats what are 100% sponsored by state, kids take such seats by results of final exams at the end of 11-th year of studying in schools, and everything in UNI is free for such kids - hostel, books, sport, uniform (if applicable).

By the way, I wonder why you are so edger to protect Ukraine. Taiwan is under pressure of Mainland almost the same way as Donetsk republic is under pressure of "mainland' Ukraine. The same size, the same willing not to accept ideology of Mainland, the same willing to have own sovereign state, the same problem with partially recognition . The only difference is - Taiwan isn't under bombing from "mainland" at past 8 years.

[Dragonman]

To compare country by poverty lines - is most useless and only propagandistic task, because of fact what each country sets own "poverty line level". If Russia will set poverty line on $100 monthly, then below poverty line will be only few hundreds of people, maybe few thousands of whole population... if it will set it to $1,000,000 then almost 95% of population will be below of such line.

Current poverty line here is $264 per adult, $240 per kid, means monthly income for family with 2 kids should be below $1008 after taxation for to include this family in to "poor" group. Such families receive support from state, for example monthly payment "per kid" which depends on parents income may be from $140 up to $600 per kid (than less is income, then higher is monthly payment, than more kids are living in family, then higher is payment).

Almost all low class (by income) here lives in social state owned apartments (minimum 18 sq.meters per person, but not less than 33 sq.m for solo living person and 42 sq.m per pair), they spend on living in such apartments about $100 including utilities by social prices (cold and hot water, heating, electricity, and so on, and gas isn't metered) monthly. Moreover, after living 15-20 years (depends on region) in such apartments each citizen once in life may register it private and became owner (will pay property tax, prices for utilities will be higher), but also may sell, exchange or give to rent it. One more point about houses and apartments in Russia - if citizen became bankrupt no one creditor may take his home or apartment if it is only place of living for broken person.

Also, please take in calculation what education up to high school, medical insurance are free here. And medical insurance 100% covers all cases besides cosmetology, and also includes hospitals, vaccination, yearly vaccination and yearly check up. Meals in schools are free for all children up to 8th grade and free for kids from low income families up to 11th grade.

And one more: each state owned or private university or college here must have at least 50% of seats what are 100% sponsored by state, kids take such seats by results of final exams at the end of 11-th year of studying in schools, and everything in UNI is free for such kids - hostel, books, sport, uniform (if applicable).

By the way, I wonder why you are so edger to protect Ukraine. Taiwan is under pressure of Mainland almost the same way as Donetsk republic is under pressure of "mainland' Ukraine. The same size, the same willing not to accept ideology of Mainland, the same willing to have own sovereign state, the same problem with partially recognition . The only difference is - Taiwan isn't under bombing from "mainland" at past 8 years.

This time I can begin my reply with the words you have used several times - Again a lot of lines...

Unlike me, however, you continue not to provide links so that your assertions can be checked.

You cite the Russian poverty level in USD, not in rubles, but the Russian government sets the poverty level in rubles, not USD.

Many other governments also provide social housing, free medical care, university-level scholarships, free vaccinations, etc., for their poorer workers, so this is not something unique to Russia and thus is irrelevant to the point that many Russians live at or below the poverty level.

As you dispute the comments about the number of Russian people living in crisis, below I reproduce an article published on 15 June 2022 at https://frontnews.eu/en/news/details/33430:

"Rosstat reported a sharp increase in the number of poor people in Russia
During the first quarter of 2022, the number of Russians living below the poverty line increased by 69%. This follows from the publication of Rosstat, reports Ekho Kavkaza.
According to Rosstat calculations, in the first quarter of 2022 the number of people with incomes below the poverty line was 20.9 million. At the same time, at the end of 2021, the agency reported 12.4 million Russians below the poverty line. Thus, in the first three months of 2022 there were 8.5 million more poor people in Russia, or 68.5%. In the first quarter of 2022, Rosstat proceeded from 12,916 rubles - the minimum income, sufficient to live in Russia, according to the department.
Compared with the fourth quarter of 2021, the average income of Russians decreased from Br47.694 to Br36.234, a drop of 24%. At the same time, the average salary decreased from 62,828 rubles to 60,101 rubles, or 4.3%. The number of employed population decreased by 800 thousand people.
The volume of social payments in the first quarter of 2022 decreased by 19.4% compared to the previous one. At the same time, the share of income from entrepreneurial and other productive activities in the total structure of income increased by 0.7%.
Rosstat has been estimating the number of the population with monetary income below the poverty line since 1992. The methodology for calculating the poverty line was changed in 2021. Now it corresponds to the cost of the consumer basket in the fourth quarter of 2020, adjusted for inflation.
On February 24, 2022, Russia invaded Ukraine. In April, Russia's military expenditures amounted to about 21 billion rubles per day."

The Hindustan Times (June 13, 2022, https://hindustannewshub.com/russia-...-moscow-times/) carried a story headlined "Rosstat reported on the rise in poverty in Russia to a 3-year high," citing a Moscow Times article, and including the sentences, "At the same time, 40% recorded a deterioration in their financial situation in the last year; 28% reported that they spend almost all their money on food, but they can no longer afford clothes and shoes, and 8% complained that they “do not even have enough money to eat” (according to the May survey of the Central Bank). At the end of the year, according to the official forecast of the Ministry of Economic Development, real disposable incomes of the population will decrease by 6.8% – the maximum value since 1999, and real wages – by 3.6%. “People will become much poorer,” says Vladimir Gimpelson, director of the Center for Labor Studies at the Higher School of Economics."

A similar report is at https://www.businessinsider.com/russ...-levels-2015-7, with the additional comment that "Russia's total population was estimated to be 144 million, according to Forbes, using Rosstat data. If the 22.9 million figure and the Forbes estimate (which removes Crimea from the data) are correct, then about 15.9 percent of Russia's total population lives below the poverty line." It also notes, "While inflation eased to 15.3 percent year-to-year in June, real wages were down 7.3 percent in May compared with the same period in 2014, according to Rosstat data. Unemployment in Russia is relatively low at 5.6 percent, but partial unemployment is rising quickly, with the number of part-time workers rising 8 percent." In an earlier post, you claimed unemployment was around 4%, I believe.

Rosstat (https://rosstat.gov.ru/) is the Federal State Statistics Service is the governmental statistics agency in Russia and is part of the Ministry of Economic Development. I cannot check the English-language version of the official website as it persistently "times out."

Odd how official data contradict your rosy view of life in Russia at the moment.

Taiwan (officially the Republic of China according to my passport) is not under the same pressure from the Mainland as Donetsk is under pressure from Ukraine. Like Donetsk, however, parts of the ROC were under bombing from the Mainland for years - look up the attacks on Quemoy and Matsu known as the First and Second Taiwan Strait Crises (the second was in 1958). Despite the claims of the PRC, it has never ruled Taiwan and the so-called "One China Consensus" is a lie. Until 1971 the Republic of China was a member of the UN and held a Security Council seat - something that Donetsk has never done. There are about 25 Foreign Embassies and 8 Consulates in Taiwan (https://www.embassy-worldwide.com/country/taiwan/) - how many are in Donetsk?. My passport allows to me to travel to every country except Georgia and Jamaica, while people living in Donetsk have to get Russian passports to travel. In fact, my passport allows me more visa-free travel than your Russian passport allows you - according to firms like Henley & Partners (https://www.henleyglobal.com/passport-index) and Passport Index (https://www.passportindex.org/byRank.php). The comparison is simply misguided.

[Moses]

Many other governments also provide social housing, free medical care, university-level scholarships, free vaccinations, etc., for their poorer workers, so this is not something unique to Russia and thus is irrelevant to the point that many Russians live at or below the poverty level.

So Taiwan also has free medical insurance including hospitals, free education including University degree? It is you who started to compare Russia and Taiwan, so lets continue.

and your quotation from Ukrainian "Frontnews" is bullshit... Ukrainians lies as usual. And Ekho Kavkaza is is even more worst - foreign opposition media living on grants from US.

average income as per official report of Rosstat has opposite numbers: average income increased in first quarter 2022 on 10.9% and became 36 234 rubles.

average salary also increased to 60К+ or 15%

unemployment rate contracted from 5.8 to 4.2%

Official report of Rosstat, use google translator https://rosstat.gov.ru/folder/313/document/168756

[Dragonman]

So Taiwan also has free medical insurance including hospitals, free education including University degree? It is you who started to compare Russia and Taiwan, so lets continue.


Number is correct, but since Eho Kavkaza is foreign media of opposition, they forgot to mention what methodology of counting poverty has been changed since start of 2022. It is usual for opposition, especially for opposition who is living abroad on grants from US like Ekho Kavkaza.

In 2022 first time is has been calculated as 42% of median income (pay attention: median, not average, it is huge difference). As result a lot of people who were in 2021 just low income group became in statistic "below poverty line" in 2022. Also in numbers poverty line itself has been raised. It gave to government legal rights to support more people in Russia whom income is low. Also from 2022 minimal wage has been raised.

With regard to your first misquote, you omitted the words "for their poorer workers" in my original comment. I did not claim that these were provided to everyone. Many other countries, however, also provide free university-level education (e.g., Czechia), so Russia is not unique here.

Why do you claim that Eho Kavkaza should have stated that the method of establishing the number of people living in poverty had been changed when the report in question was citing official Russian statistics? Kavkaza was under no obligation as a journalist to explain that Rosstat had changed it procedures - unless the original report made this distinction clear. As i noted, I cannot check the Rosstat report as their English-language website does not respond. Whether or not the method has changed, the fact remains that Rosstat was reporting that more Russians are living in poverty.

Do you have proof that Eho Kavkaza is living on grants from the US? If not, your comment is libelous mud-slinging.

Again, your last paragraph is irrelevant because, however the poverty level is officially calculated (whether it is as a percentage of median income or a percentage of average income), Rosstat was officially reporting a rise in poverty to a 3-year high, whether or not the change gave the government a legal right to provide more support.

[Moses]

Again, your last paragraph is irrelevant because, however the poverty level is officially calculated (whether it is as a percentage of median income or a percentage of average income), Rosstat was officially reporting a rise in poverty to a 3-year high, whether or not the change gave the government a legal right to provide more support.

so you don't see difference in methods? why you comment poverty at all?

look at my first comment about poverty: when state raises official poverty line, even when income didn't changed a lot of people will be counted as poor after it...

and yes, I paid attention what you don't compare Russia with Taiwan anymore after my explanation about state support of poor people in Russia...

It is official - "Ekho Kavkaza" is project of "Radio "Freedom"... do you need me to continue? or will just google it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_.../Radio_Liberty check 4th from the end row in the table

could you please count how many times CIA of US is mentioned in this article? (35 times)

[Dragonman]

so you don't see difference in methods? why you comment poverty at all?

look at my first comment about poverty: when state raises official poverty line, even when income didn't changed a lot of people will be counted as poor after it...

and yes, I paid attention what you don't compare Russia with Taiwan anymore after my explanation about state support of poor people in Russia...

It is official - "Ekho Kavkaza" is project of "Radio "Freedom"... do you need me to continue? or will just google it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_.../Radio_Liberty check 4th from the end row in the table

could you please count how many times CIA of US is mentioned in this article? (35 times)

Whether or not I see a difference in the methods used by Rosstat to calculate the Russian poverty level is irrelevant to the fact that Rosstat itself was reporting (according to its latest method of calculating the poverty level) that MORE Russians are living at or below that level.

I commented on the Russian poverty level to point out that the idyllic life you were reporting (e.g., that people were happy with deflation, etc.) was not borne out by official statistics.

Support for people at or below the poverty level in Taiwan is comparable to that provided in other countries, e.g., free health care, housing subsidies, free vaccinations, income subsidies, consumption vouchers, etc. I didn't go into the detail you did simply because poverty is not a major issue here as only about 1.3% of the population is classified as poor (https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ne-by-country/). Here, municipalities, rather than the central government, are responsible for the welfare of those with Household Registration (i.e., living legally) in their jurisdiction. Although I live well-above the poverty level, I am aware of what happens because the Household Registration Office officials check on me because of my age (I am almost 80 years old).

Thank you for the additional information on Ekho Kavkaza. I was assuming it was a person from the Caucasus.

If you want to dismiss that report, and the one in the Hindustan Times and that in Business Insider, what about reading one from https://runews24.ru/eng/economy/13/0...1937e5c8e82bd4, "Russian Federal State Statistics Service: nearly 21 million Russians are below the poverty line. According to the Federal State Statistics Service, this number has increased compared to last year due to the acceleration of inflation"?

Runews24 is a Russian internet service provider headquartered in Russia, registered with the Federal Service for Supervision of Communications, Information Technology and Mass Communications (Roskomnadzor) on November 17, 2014. Registration certificate El No. FS77-59875. Postal address: 123112, Moscow, Presnenskaya nab., 12. Phone: +7 (499) 409-85-24. E-mail: info@runews24.ru. I assume that, as its website is still operating, it is not reporting propaganda for the USA.

The body of the report states: "The number of Russians whose income was below the poverty line in the first quarter of 2022 amounted to almost 21 million people, or 14.3% of the total population. According to Rosstat, their number has grown due to the acceleration of inflation to 11.54%. The department reported that the poverty line in the first quarter of this year for Russians was set at 12,916 rubles a month. At the same time, according to the calculations of Rosstat, the average per capita nominal income in the first quarter amounted to 36,234 rubles per month. This is 10.9% more than in the same period in 2021.

Earlier, the Central Bank reported that the residents of Russia were again interested in cash. The amount of cash in the period from June 1 to June 9 increased by 150.4 billion rubles - almost one and a half times compared to 2021."

The figure of 12,916 rubles a month is presently US$246.13 per month. The "interest in cash" is indicative of a distrust in banks. Note that this report, like the others earlier quoted, does not state that Rosstat has changed the basis for calculating the poverty level - only that more Russians are living in poverty, and that Rosstat attributes the cause to an increase in inflation. It makes no mention of the benefits of deflation, but does state that average per capita income increased in the same time period by 10.9% over the previous year's same time period.

Are you aware of Radio Sputnik (https://sputniknews.com/), established by the Russian government-owned news agency Rossiya Segodnya in 2014, that broadcasts Russian propaganda in 26 languages? It is usually seen as broadcasting dezinformatsiya - or propaganda - and is a counterpart to Radio Freedom. It has been banned in the EU since the beginning of the "special military operation." Why complain that other countries broadcast propaganda when your own developed it to a fine art under Stalin, who coined the term dezinformatsiya?

Finally, why are you so concerned to establish that any increase in the number of people living in poverty is attributable only to a change in the way the poverty level is calculated when Rosstat does not make such a claim itself?

[dab69]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/193568...ow-box-cutter/
‘RUSSIA HAS TO PAY’ Horrifying footage shows ‘Russian soldiers castrating Ukrainian prisoner of war with box-cutter knife’ sparking outrage
The deranged soldiers shout insults at the man and then hold his castrated genitals up to the camera.

It's not clear where or when the video - which is too graphic to publish - was taken, but sleuths claim to have found some of the troops had been filmed on the frontlines in Donbas in June.

It is also unclear what happened to the Ukrainian soldier, though it's believed he would not have survived without immediate medical treatment.

Journalist Aric Toler said there was no evidence the video had been doctored and said Russian state media showed the same Russian soldiers in Severodonestsk back in June after it was seized from Ukrainian forces.

The chilling clip has caused outrage in Kyiv with Ukrainian MP Inna Sovsun tweeting the footage, saying: "Russia has to pay for it".

She said: "Give Ukraine the weapons we need to stop this nightmare once and for all.

"The world can't pretend like this isn't happening."

Investigators claim the soldier who carried out the sicking attack belongs to a Chechen unit under the command of Vladimir Putin's warlord crony Ramzan Kadyrov.
Investigative outlet Bellingcat told The Times the video appears to be genuine.

[Dragonman]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/193568...ow-box-cutter/
‘RUSSIA HAS TO PAY’ Horrifying footage shows ‘Russian soldiers castrating Ukrainian prisoner of war with box-cutter knife’ sparking outrage
The deranged soldiers shout insults at the man and then hold his castrated genitals up to the camera.

It's not clear where or when the video - which is too graphic to publish - was taken, but sleuths claim to have found some of the troops had been filmed on the frontlines in Donbas in June........

Investigators claim the soldier who carried out the sicking attack belongs to a Chechen unit under the command of Vladimir Putin's warlord crony Ramzan Kadyrov.
Investigative outlet Bellingcat told The Times the video appears to be genuine.

The treatment of prisoners of war is governed in international humanitarian law by the Geneva Convention - of which the Russian Federation is a signatory, although in 2019 Putin revoked Russia's signing of Additional Protocol 1 which deals mainly with the protection of civilians, civilian objects, medical organizations, and the environment.
Ukraine has not revoked this protocol, though.

So far, Putin has not revoked other protocols, including those protecting POWs. Part 12, Article 12 of the Geneva Convention deals with the treatment of Prisoners of War, and states, "Article 12. Prisoners of war are in the hands of the enemy Power, but not of the individuals or military units who have captured them. Irrespective of the individual responsibilities that may exist, the Detaining Power is responsible for the treatment given them."

In 2016, Ramzan Kadyrov's Chechen troops, although still under direct control of Kadyrov, were placed under nominal control of the National Guard of Russia, an independent agency that reports directly to the President of Russia (currently Vladimir Putin) under office's powers as Supreme Commander-in-Chief and Chair of the Security Council.

The website of the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) has a series of lessons on the Law of Armed Conflict. The sixth lesson is instructive in this case as it deals with the issue of Command Responsibility. Point Four concerns "CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY OF COMMANDERS FOR ACTS COMMITTED BY THEIR SUBORDINATES
Commanders will be held criminally responsible under the law if:
• they knew, or should have known, that subordinates were going to break the law, i.e. commit a war crime, but did nothing to prevent it;
• they fail to take any action against (punish or report) subordinates who have already committed a war crime.
A commander therefore cannot use the excuse, “I did not know”.
Command means just that – being in control and being responsible for what is happening in your command all the time, every time." (https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/assets/f...law6_final.pdf)

It would logically follow, therefore, that either or both of Putin and Kadyrov is accountable for this war crime.

[latintopxxx]

im more concerned about the nuclear power stations, if we have another chernobyl it will be an utter disaster, that part of the world is exrelemely agriculturally productive & it woukld seriously affect world food production if it was permanantly excluded due to contamination.
I recall that after chernobyl dozen sof the companies I consulted for had to test raw materials that were grown (fruit/berries, dairy....) in the path of the nuclear plume that spread across europe after that disaster, cost a small fortune & was hugely disruptive.