The Brink of War?

[Moses]

I will limit sources quoted to May 2022 if you stop quoting events in WWII and/or 2014.

Are you kidding? I'm citing history. I understand what it disturb you because there is no argumentation why Ukraine uses Nazi and accepts Nazi ideology.

As per 2014 - it is where whole story started: nationalist coup and bombing East of Ukraine by current nationalist govt. Everything started there: inspired by US coup -> bombing of East of Ukraine by Ukrainian air forces -> ignorance of Minsk protocol for almost 8 years -> Recognizing of Donetsk and Lugansk as sovereign states by Russia -> Russian military operation

Pro-Russian rally, Frankfurt, Germany, April 10, 2022

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[Dragonman]

Protests in Germany against sending weapons to Ukraine

Attachment 12628

The line under the photo reads, "“Supply weapons? No!” reads a banner in Berlin. The anti-militarist mindset has been a powerful force in postwar German politics." You do not give a link to the photo, so it is taken out of context.

It comes from an article entitled "WAR IN UKRAINE | COMMENT. Never again? Germany’s timid leaders are failing to learn from history. The chancellor’s decision to refuse Ukraine the weapons it really needs is inexcusable, argues a senior editor at Germany’s bestselling newspaper," published in The Times on April 22, 2022 (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/n...tory-ssjj3vhsl).

You don't mention those demonstrations in favor of sending arms, though.

Why can you post material from April but demand I limit mine to May?? Or this this an example of double standards?

[Moses]

Why can you post material from April but demand I limit mine to May?? Or this this an example of double standards?

it is not news - it is argument against "only you and Putin"

just reminder: even under heaviest pressure from US and EU, only 20% of countries in world supports sanctions against Russia...

Premier-minister of Pakistan said straightforward to such pressure: "Are we your slaves to follow your orders?".

https://twitter.com/incontextmedia/s...46987494576130

As about doubled standards: do you want to discuss Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Vietnam?

[cdnmatt]

I don't know about you guys, but I'm still waiting for that news headline to popup that says China has invaded Russia to secure the oilfields in eastern Russia.

That will be a good day.

[Dragonman]

Are you kidding? I'm citing history. I understand what it disturb you because there is no argumentation why Ukraine uses Nazi and accepts Nazi ideology.

As per 2014 - it is where whole story started: nationalist coup and bombing East of Ukraine by current nationalist govt. Everything started there: inspired by US coup -> bombing of East of Ukraine by Ukrainian air forces -> ignorance of Minsk protocol for almost 8 years -> Recognizing of Donetsk and Lugansk as sovereign states by Russia -> Russian military operation

Pro-Russian rally, Frankfurt, Germany, April 10, 2022

051f0000-0aff-0242-bde4-08da1b20c89f_cx0_cy10_cw0_w1023_r1_s.jpg

5YDM3CUXFFKE5NCEXB7FC66FPY.jpg

The photos come from an article published by Reuters on April 11, 2022, entitled "Ukraine supporters outnumber pro-Russians in German protests" (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...rs-2022-04-10/). I guess you forgot that bit of information.

The rest of your post simply recites what you have posted before, nothing new, but again ignores the point that Putin has repeatedly stated that Russia is not a party to the Minsk protocols.

Selectively citing from history is propaganda. Let's also the series of pogroms against Jews in the city of Odessa, Ukraine, then part of the Russian Empire, that took place during the 19th and early 20th centuries - in 1821, 1859, 1871, 1881 and 1905. Or those in the 20th century. Or those in Kyiv between 1918 and 1921, carried out by a number of groups including the Volunteer Army, a faction of the Russian White Army. Or the Holodymyr (or Holodomor if you prefer the Russian rather than Ukrainian translation), Stalin's man-made famine which killed roughly 3.5 million to 7 million people (with some estimates going higher) in Ukraine in 1932-33, part of a wider famine also affecting Kazakhstan and other parts of the Soviet Union, and which is now considered genocide in Ukraine. Or the 1941 NKVD Prison Massacres in Western Ukraine when, during the German invasion of the USSR, the Soviet Secret Police (NKVD) murdered between 10,000 and 40,000 political prisoners in Western Ukraine over the course of eight days.

Or let's discuss the use of rape as a tool of warfare, given the reports that Russian soldiers have raped not only women but also men and small boys. Soviet soldiers were notorious for raping women in the territories they occupied during and immediately after World War II. When Joseph Stalin learned that his soldiers were engaging in mass rape in occupied areas, he made light of it, saying that they were merely “having a little fun.” In Ukraine over the past several weeks, Russian soldiers have earned a similar reputation by engaging in widespread rape, and leaders in the Kremlin once again view the practice with equanimity and have made no effort to curtail it. When Putin’s press secretary, Dmitry Peskov, was asked about sexual crimes perpetrated by Russian soldiers in Bucha, he replied that the accusations were mere “lies” and “fabrications.” Or the fact that this "special military operation is remarkably similar to Russian incursions in WWII (https://www.wbur.org/cognoscenti/202...ii-mark-kramer).

Let's also discuss that fact that over 92% of Ukrainians voted for independence, or the fact the Ukrainian Russian-speakers are abandoning Russian as their language (https://www.npr.org/2022/04/24/10945...g-the-language) because they don't support what Putin is doing.

[Dragonman]

it is not news - it is argument against "only you and Putin"

just reminder: even under heaviest pressure from US and EU, only 20% of countries in world supports sanctions against Russia...

Premier-minister of Pakistan said straightforward to such pressure: "Are we your slaves to follow your orders?".

https://twitter.com/incontextmedia/s...46987494576130

As about doubled standards: do you want to discuss Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Vietnam?

If, which I dispute, my comments are "only you and Putin," it is because history is full of incidents that would parallel the present situation but which are not relevant to the fact that Putin's excuse is a fabric of lies.

The Economist ran an article entitled "Russia can count on support from many developing countries, Wednesday, 30th March, 2022 (https://www.eiu.com/n/russia-can-cou...ing-countries/), citing an EIU study that shows that two-thirds of the world’s population lives in neutral or Russia-leaning countries regarding war in Ukraine. By Global GDP 70.5% of countries support sanctions or are West-leaning, and 10.1% are neutral. with China and India accounting for nearly two-thirds of this group’s economic footprint. By global population, 36.4% support sanctions or are west-leaning, and 32.1% are neutral. Of the remainder, only 3.9 % are "supportive" of Russia.

With regard to Imran Khan, his views are now irrelevant as he is the FORMER Prime Minister of Pakistan because he lost a no-confidence vote. However, earlier it was reported on February 22 that "Pakistan's PM Urges Peaceful End to Ukraine Crisis Ahead of Visit to Russia" (https://www.voanews.com/amp/pakistan...a/6454099.html). He was also reported as supportive of Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity.

You asked, "do you want to discuss Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Vietnam?" Yes, but only if you want to discuss Russian involvement in the Korean War, the Hungarian revolution, the invasion of Czechoslovakia, and the invasion of Afghanistan, and its involvement in a host of civil wars ranging from the Yemen to Angola, Mozambique, Ethiopia, etc. Not excluding its war with Georgia and its involvement in Tajikistan and Moldova/Transnistria, of course.

[Dodger]

[QUOTE=cdnmatt;291074]

I don't know about you guys, but I'm still waiting for that news headline to popup that says China has invaded Russia to secure the oilfields in eastern Russia./QUOTE]

Maybe Russia should join NATO?

[Dodger]

What happened!

Did everyone here die at the same time?

[Dax]

I was thinking the same thing, Dodger, maybe everyone went and signed-up with the International Legion of Ukraine and are undergoing intensive training. We can only hope, right....NOT!

[Dragonman]

What happened!

Did everyone here die at the same time?

I didn't die but there has been nothing recently on which I could comment