The Brink of War?

[Moses]

======That's one way to increase dependency on Mr Putin's gas.======

USSR/Russia sells gas to Europe over 5 decades. European gas-distributing companies have HUGE profit from that deal. And at time of 5 decades this deal never been disrupted, not at time of "Cold war" not at post-USSR time. At past 2021 Russian state gas export monopoly GazProm sold 12% more gas to Europe than it has been contracted.

Only twice gas pumping was disrupted for 3 and 6 days. Guess when! When Ukraine was found to steal gas from pipeline in 2003 and 2008 years. But by German-Russian deal Germany pays for gas on Russia-Ukraine border but measures it on west Ukrainian border. So if Ukraine steals gas then counters show what Russia send less gas than has been paid.

And that is reason why Russia made North stream. It was far before pro-western presidents come to power in Ukraine. Pipelines has nothing mutual with politic - they have purpose to shorten distance from Russian North to Europe and to abrupt gas stealing.

[maump]

Amazing the differences in opinion. the corporate news media has won. none of us know the truth.

I only hope peace wins out. But War is often used to distract from bad politics at home. and make money for some.

[arsenal]

Russian military entirely surrounding Ukraine. Moses, you and you alone I think are claiming this is propaganda. Even Putin admits they are there but says it's a training exercise.

[arsenal]

And on a lighter note (but entirely on topic) I recommend episode 1 of the first series of Yes Prime Minister. It's about NATO and a masterclass in comedy delivery by Paul Eddington.

[cdnmatt]

Yeah, I don't know why Moses comes up with these bullshit facts that he knows are obviously false. It's 2022, you can't just play hide and seek with ~127,000 soldiers with military hardware.

[Nirish guy]

I have no idea who is right or wrong but I have to say it’s always interesting to read Moses (usually alternative) view on matters on east versus west propaganda.

I’m sure the one thing we CAN all agree on though is that both sides DO undertake a lot Propaganda and manipulation of the media ( and so us) when it suits their needs, thus making our person to person conversations here even more interesting sometimes as we all try to distinguish fact from fiction when it comes to the many lies we’re all being told regularly by BOTH sides no doubt.

My only problem with your view about the pipeline etc Moses is surely then to “beat” the Americans and keep Russian gas flowing to Europe then all Putin has to do is NOT invade Ukraine and “he wins” and all America’s attempts at warmongering ( as you claim) will have been in vein. So to me that seems like an easy victory for Putin, do nothing and “he wins” - which seems like quite a foolishly throughout plan then by the Americans to start with - no ??

[Moses]

Russian military entirely surrounding Ukraine. Moses, you and you alone I think are claiming this is propaganda. Even Putin admits they are there but says it's a training exercise.

I can draw to you another map where Russian troops will surround USA, or where US troops will surround Moscow.

Lets talk about facts: it clearly stated by both sides what 100 000+ "Russian troops" are located near Yelnya. "Yelnya" is clearly written in NYT article, sounds from mouths of White House officials.

I just attracting your attention to this fact. Do you know where Yelnya is located? On the way from Europe to Russia - on the west from Moscow.

In 1812 armies of Napoleon lost half of solders in forests and marshes near Yelnya.
In 1941 Hitler's armies got first lost battle exactly near Yelnya - from first Russian battalion with famous "Katusha" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyusha_rocket_launcher

Yelnya is laying far from the way from Russia to Ukraine. Yelnya is place of basing Russian Western military group.

[StevieWonders]

Before his Crimea “adventure” Putin whipped up public support in the Russian mass media. Nothing similar is happening now. For a successful war national leaders must prepare their civilian population for the body bags

[arsenal]

137000 troops in Yelmya!!!

"Well I do hope the bars and cafes are well stocked."
Blackadder

No one knows what's going to happen and as I've said, I don't think Putin will invade but after 22 years as unchallenged leader (18 as president) his mindset is questionable. But there seems no doubt he wants a fight with someone.

[cdnmatt]

Before his Crimea “adventure” Putin whipped up public support in the Russian mass media. Nothing similar is happening now. For a successful war national leaders must prepare their civilian population for the body bags

Yeah, true enough. I don't know what the hell Putin is doing. Seems like this little adventure of his is only going to result in really two things:

1. Ukraine's weapons stockpiles will grow immensely.
2. Sweden and Finland will swiftly join NATO.