The Brink of War?

[Moses]

And why should we here in Russia sacrifice our future for this "denazification"?

Maybe because our grandfathers and fathers did the same in 1941-1945, and later - till about 1960s - at the West of Ukraine?

[Dragonman]

Yes. And right after Russian revolution in 1918 UK, US, Canada and even Australia + 10 more countries intervened into Russia for to terminate revolution.

Don't forget the Chinese troops sent by the-then government to Vladivostok (Hǎishēnwǎi) at the request of the Chinese merchant community in the Russian Far East for their protection - about 1600 soldiers and 700 support personnel (https://books.openedition.org/ceup/1231?lang=en) Of course, the region had been Chinese territory until the 1858 Treaty of Aigun of 1858 and the 1860 Treaty of Peking. Given the desire of the present PRC government to unite under their banner all the lands and territories seen by them as previously part of the Chinese Empire, they'll probably want the territory back soon.

[Dragonman]

First stage is always denial... I understand you: "It cannot be true". But it is.

Here is full report of Galician news agency with original photos. They show Nazi adepts of Ukraine in full colors. https://galinfo.com.ua/photo/na_lviv...to_138749.html
one more https://lb.ua/news/2017/07/24/372205...ahoronili.html

you for sure may read Ukrainian. They are proud to use SS symbols. At the event one of speeches held real veteran of Galicia SS division.

Attachment 12618

Attachment 12619

Attachment 12620

The Galinfo report is dated MONDAY, JULY 20TH, 2013.

The headline states "In Lviv region reburied 16 soldiers of the division "Galicia."

The text refers specifically to searchers who "found a sanitary burial of the victims of the Second World War. In the common grave, which in its size reached 2x2 meters and was 1.2 meters deep, the remains of sixteen people rested. According to the searchers of kp ENT "Dolya", the found remains belong to the soldiers of the division "Galicia", which in July 1944 as part of the Wehrmacht troops participated in the battle known in history as the "Brody boiler". The fact that the remains belong to the soldiers - divisional soldiers is confirmed by the artifacts found in the research excavation of the grave: remnants of fabric from uniforms, buttons from German uniforms, shoes, rings, awards and other things of military ammunition."

It notes at the end, "However, the specialists of the KR ENT "Dolya" have some doubts that all the remains belong to the soldiers of the division. One of the awards in the excavation, the so-called Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross, with a swastika and the specified year of 1939, could not belong to a soldier-divisional. Therefore, as the director of the enterprise Svyatoslav Sheremet stressed, there are reasons to say that among the buried in the grave are the remains of at least one Wehrmacht soldier."

So, the bodies found and reburied may all be those of Ukrainian dead, or Slovak dead (the division also contained Slovaks), or German dead, or some combination thereof.

Today's (June 4: 12.53) Galinfo contains the following information:
Russian invaders continue to suffer heavy losses on Ukrainian soil.
Thus, according to the General Staff, the total combat losses of the enemy from 24.02 to 04.06 are approximately:
personnel - about 31,050 (+100) military personnel,
tanks - 1376 (+9),
armored combat vehicles - 3379 (+13),
artillery systems - 680 (+5),
MLRS - 207 (+0),
air defense means - 95 (+0),
aircraft - 210 (+0),
helicopters - 175 (+0),
Tactical-level UAVs - 540 (+5),
cruise missiles - 122 (+1),
ships/boats - 13 (+0),
automotive machinery and tanker trucks - 2337 (+8),
special equipment - 52 (+1).
The enemy suffered the greatest losses in the Zaporizhzhya direction.

The data is being clarified (https://galinfo.com.ua/).

[dab69]

More small minded Russian lies and propaganda again...

[cdnmatt]

The part I like the most is how apparently, China is doing military exercises on their north eastern border with Russia, and may pull the trigger and invade Russia:

https://www.theklaxon.com.au/home/ch...-border-drills

If you think about the oil supplies, and the fact that those oil fields in eastern Russia are going to run dry in 24 - 36 months due to Western companies pulling out which China simply can't allow, then it makes sense.

Now wouldn't that be a cool twist of fate? China invades Russia to secure their own energy supply, haha.

[Moses]

The Galinfo report is dated MONDAY, JULY 20TH, 2013.

The headline states "In Lviv region reburied 16 soldiers of the division "Galicia."

The text refers specifically to searchers who "found a sanitary burial of the victims of the Second World War. In the common grave, which in its size reached 2x2 meters and was 1.2 meters deep, the remains of sixteen people rested. According to the searchers of kp ENT "Dolya", the found remains belong to the soldiers of the division "Galicia", which in July 1944 as part of the Wehrmacht troops participated in the battle known in history as the "Brody boiler". The fact that the remains belong to the soldiers - divisional soldiers is confirmed by the artifacts found in the research excavation of the grave: remnants of fabric from uniforms, buttons from German uniforms, shoes, rings, awards and other things of military ammunition."

Victims??? Nazi.

The 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Galician) (German: 14. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS [galizische Nr. 1],[2] Ukrainian: 14а Гренадерська Дивізія СС (1а галицька)), prior to 1944 titled the 14th SS-Volunteer Division "Galicia" (German: 14. SS-Freiwilligen Division "Galizien", Ukrainian: 14а Добровільна Дивізія СС "Галичина"), was a World War II German military formation made up predominantly of military volunteers with a Ukrainian ethnic background from the area of Galicia (me; i.e. Western Ukraine), later also with some Slovaks. Formed in 1943, it was largely destroyed in the battle of Brody in the fight with USSR army.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_W...(1st_Galician)

They are "victims" only in the eyes of the same Nazi like they were. They are volunteered in SS. Nobody forced them.

And you support them. Shame.

[Moses]

More small minded Russian lies and propaganda again...

I'm glad what you again shows your cultural level. Thank you.

[Moses]

Kiev 1943:

Lemberg280443-2.jpg

Kiev 2022:

82a18ecd65afa0fb81d99809bbb9bd6e.jpg

[Moses]

dab69, one more attempt to vandalize board by posting here Nazi symbols without any comments, and I will ban you for 3 months.

It is moderator's warning, you can't reply on it in public forum (see Rules).

[Dragonman]

Victims??? Nazi.

The 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Galician) (German: 14. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS [galizische Nr. 1],[2] Ukrainian: 14а Гренадерська Дивізія СС (1а галицька)), prior to 1944 titled the 14th SS-Volunteer Division "Galicia" (German: 14. SS-Freiwilligen Division "Galizien", Ukrainian: 14а Добровільна Дивізія СС "Галичина"), was a World War II German military formation made up predominantly of military volunteers with a Ukrainian ethnic background from the area of Galicia (me; i.e. Western Ukraine), later also with some Slovaks. Formed in 1943, it was largely destroyed in the battle of Brody in the fight with USSR army.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_W...(1st_Galician)

They are "victims" only in the eyes of the same Nazi like they were. They are volunteered in SS. Nobody forced them.

And you support them. Shame.

1. The word "victim" is that used in the article from which I quoted - it is not my original usage.

2. A war victim is defined as "A person that suffers from the destructive action undertaken as a result of an armed conflict between two or more parties, particularly death, injury, hardship, loss of property or dislocation" (https://www.eionet.europa.eu/gemet/en/concept/13324). Soldiers killed in a war are war victims.

3. I was not questioning, and do not question, the ethnic composition of the 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS, and my response was not about that topic. I was responding to your posting about the funeral of three bodies found in a common grave with 13 others, where items found with the bodies indicated at least one of them was probably a German. I was questioning the assumed ethnicity of the bodies being buried. On the balance of probability, the remains may all be of Ukrainian ethnicity but in the absence of DNA testing (which was not done), the ethnic composition (or perhaps decomposition) of the trio buried remains only a probability, not the certainty that you have assumed.

4. Despite the dezinformatsiya (дезинформация) invented by Stalin and spread by Putin, Ukrainian members of this Division were NOT Nazis. NAZI is a contraction of Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (NSDAP), or the National Socialist German Workers’ Party. To be a Nazi, someone had to be a member of the NSDAP. To become a member of the NSDAP, a person had to be either (a) a German national, or (b) a member of an approved Volksdeutsche group, i.e. “people whose language and culture had German origins but who did not hold German citizenship.” So, by the rules of the Nazi Party, there were no Ukrainian Nazis.

5. Members of the Division were certainly volunteers who may have sympathized with Nazi ideology, OR they may have been men from Western Ukraine (also known as Galicia) who had little to no loyalty towards the USSR because the Soviet Army had seized the territory during the USSR's invasion of Poland in September 1939. Nationalists in Western Ukraine were Nazi collaborators because they hoped that their efforts would enable them to re-establish an independent state. This is a part of USSR history that Putin would like people to forget - perhaps because of the actions of the USSR's Destruction Battalions in Galicia. You and Putin don't know the reasons why those buried had joined the Galicia Division after it was formed in 1943 (i.e., some 3-4 years after the Soviet Union had seized Western Ukraine) - and neither do I.

6. I have never written, stated or implied in any of my postings that I "support them." I am not responsible for any inferences you may draw from my questioning of, or responses to, your postings.