Being gay in rural Thailand

[Oliver2]

I posted this elsewhere as a response to a discussion about Thais' views of homosexuality.

I knew that my boyfriend was very close to his parents and he claimed that they were fully aware of his sexuality but that the subject was never discussed.

We'd been together for four years or more before I received the invitation to visit in Kamphaeng Phaet. I had felt rather hurt by his reluctance, particularly in view of the falangs I knew who'd been "taken home" at an early stage in their relationships. I wondered whether the poverty in which they lived was an issue, and without explaining why, I talked to him about my experiences in West Africa, where the poverty in some rural villages and compounds I'd visited (and ate in, from communal bowls) was way beyond that of rural Thailand.

But no. I had to tease out the reasons why my invitation was relatively late in arriving; nothing to do with poverty, parents or family; everything to do with the close-knit village in which his family lived and its collective view of homosexuality. A gay man, he told me, was considered to be effeminate. P is straight-looking and acting. He didn't want to be considered a ladyboy, or anything like it.

About a year earlier, I'd paid for a house to be built next to his parents to provide a better environment for him....it even had an indoor toilet and bathroom! However, he was there for only six years when the opportunity arose for him to move about ten kms away, to a secluded (relatively speaking) but older house with its own plot of land.

I have to admit to being upset. That house near his parents had cost me dear; I'd been involved in every stage of its planning and construction. I must confess to a feeling of pride for what I'd done for him. And of hurt by his decision.

But again, the desire for privacy and separation from the village trumped everything else, including being willing to swap the smart concrete house I'd paid for an old and traditional one.

I stress that P , who's now thirty-eight, is straight-looking and acting. And exclusively and assertively gay. But the hold the community still had on him was immense.

He visits his parents everyday; but his sexuality ensures that he will no longer live there. I friend explained to me that, In an odd way, bearing the mind the part financially I played in his two houses, including the fitting-up and refurbishment of his new one, I am something of a victim too!

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[StevieWonders]

The notion of Thailand being a “gay paradise” because a middle-aged white guy can walk down the street holding hands with a young male prostitute is based solely on his perception that it doesn’t invite open hostility from passers by. The famous “Thai smile” is but one symptom of a general desire to avoid conflict in personal relations at the basic level. There’s no need to take my word for that - any book on popular Thai culture and society will tell you the same thing. The “gay paradise” notion has been discussed several times here over the years, with posters citing articles by Thais in English rubbishing the concept.

[Dodger]

Thank you Oliver for a very enjoyable read.

I've had to remind myself many times over the years that being in a gay relationship with a partner who's half my age is going to have its challenges, regardless of what continent I'm on, with Thailand being no exception.

I was born and raised Buddhist (a rare exception for an Italian American surrounded by Catholics), and couldn't wait to see what it was like in a totally Buddhist environment when I first came to Thailand. I was left a bit disappointed. I'm not going to do what I normally do and ramble on - but I do want to say that there's certainly an abundance of symbolism, superstition, and shallowness, which is masked as Buddhism in Thai society, but evidence of the basic tenants of Buddhism which rely heavily on a persons ability to be accepting of other's and humble about their own offerings, seems to be just as compromised as in Western cultures. That would include acceptance of "gays". Enough said.

My experience has shown me, that contrary to popular belief, no two Thai boys are the same, no two families are the same, and no two villages are the same, when it comes to how they relate to a farang...or, how they relate to gays. I really don't think that the "gay" part has that much to do with it. It has more to do with the farang's age, and the fact that he's rich and they're poor. That's where the tire hits the road IMHO.

I was married once...built a house for him and the family (in his families village)...he died of TB in 2012...and the house has continued to do exactly what it was intended to do - and that's shelter the family. I made a point of never saying the house was for us - I always said the house was for them...because, in my heart it was. They had nothing. I had everything.

In 22 years in Thailand, I've had numerous boyfriends and have been married twice. Each and every boy I've been with has been openly gay (including when they're back in their home villages) - so I've never experienced what you're going through with P.

As a side note: Not all boys come from model families. It has nothing to do with being poor. It's the part where daddies a drunk, mommy runs a gambling den, grandpa's the village thief, and sis is addicted to yaba. Some of the nicest boys that I've met come from the worst families - and vice versa.

[Oliver2]

I've never underestimated the importance of P's religion. He spent much of 2009 in and out of hospital and has always claimed that the DMC channel and its advocacy and instruction in the processes of meditation was a vital aspect of his recovery . He'd travel every month to events at the temple in Bangkok until Covid; a ten hour round journey. Interestingly, its teachings are in no way gay-friendly, he says. Never one to avoid contradictions, he accepts this; and ignores it.

A significant moment in our first meeting (which I've posted about before) was when he told me he'd only just returned to Pattaya after his month as a monk in a temple where the Abbot was a distant family member. He face lit up when I spoke approvingly of this. I've only just remembered that. It may well have been significant in what followed.

Something else I've just remembered is that my first visit to his village was an important moment for him. In effect, I "outed " him. Whisperings, he had said, had abounded as to where his money had came from, enough to build a modern house in a village of wooden structures. I was a very visible answer.

[Dodger]

Something else I've just remembered is that my first visit to his village was an important moment for him. In effect, I "outed " him. Whisperings, he had said, had abounded as to where his money had came from, enough to build a modern house in a village of wooden structures. I was a very visible answer.

I don't believe you "outed" him at all.

You were generous enough to do something wonderful for him and his family with the best of intentions, and no one can take that away from you (good karma). Everyone in the village knew full well where the money came from, and their "whisperings, if in fact they were negative in nature, are simply the result of their jealousy for not receiving what P's family did (bad karma).

If P would not have mentioned the "whispers" to you, that would have been "jai yen".

[Oliver2]

A long tome ago, Dodger, you wrote about a visit to a rural village with (as I remember it) a ladyboy. I think you mentioned how accepted he was in his community and I took from this that clearly-defined sexualities are all accepted, even the the Third One.
I suspect that maybe it was P's apparent "straightness" that disconcerted the villagers.

[francois]

I never wanted to visit the bf's village and would, most likely, not accept an invitation even if asked.

[cdnmatt]

I don't know, but I've never had an issue in the villages. Kim's parents were seperated, so for the years we were living together, we'd rotate the two villages and usually go to one of them every two weeks. His mom's village was actually fairly decent, and not once did I sense any ill will due to the sexuality component. It was always nothing but warmth and friendliness, plus of course the occasional to be expected "omg, a white guy" stare.

Even during times such as Songkran, his little sister's wedding, his step father's funeral, et al.... when there were loads of people around, not once did I sense any uneasiness at all. Nobody seemed to care in the slightest, and were just doing their thing, enjoying their lives and we're more than friendly towards me. Not once did Kim ever show any indication whatsoerver there was anything amiss, as I'm confident there wasn't.

His dad's village on the other hand was quite the dive, and more poverty stricken. Still not a single negative feeling regarding the sexuality aspect, as it simply didn't seem to matter. Did have one grandma in that village who wouldn't stop pinching me though -- just checking if that white skin is actually real or rubs off, I guess.

Did get some grief in his dad's village though, but had nothing to do with homophobia, and instead due to being white. I don't understand pasa-Laos very well, but these guys were the Western equivalent of backwards redneck hicks. Basic gist was I'm just a lazy, rich foriegners who's weak and doesn't know what hard work is, whereas they're the real men who work hard every day, and blah, blah.... They didn't seem to care in the slightest Kim and myself were gay, but looked down on me for being white and working being a computer using my mind instead of muscles to earn money.

heh, that reminds me. I'll never forget Kim's dad the one day, so very proudly showing off his tatoo that spanned his entire chest. Took off his shirt and pointed, where it spelt in huge letters, "KA-MAN-DO". He was all proud, saying it's because he used to be a commando in the Thai military. Didn't have the heart to tell him he totally botched the spelling, and just smiled and told him it looked awesome.

[Nirish guy]

Basic gist was I'm just a lazy, rich foriegners who's weak and doesn't know what hard work is, whereas they're the real men who work hard every day, and blah, blah.....

They may of course just have been making a valid point......

[cdnmatt]

They may of course just have been making a valid point......

You mean the 80 hour weeks of mind numbing stress isn't hard?

I may not be able to do their job nowadays (when I was younger, no problem), but I can guarantee they couldn't do my job.