Jai yen

[Oliver2]

I'm finding the forum depressing at the moment. For obvious reasons. So let's have a discussion about our Thai friends, particularly for those of us who are missing them deeply.

Who appreciates the highly -regarded Thai ideal of "jai yen" (literally, a cool heart)?

It's a standing joke between P. and me that he enjoys our simple pleasures quietly and in a restrained manner. I know him well enough to recognise when he's enjoying himself at a particularly good dinner, or during a walk on the beach, or whatever. Sometimes, I chide him, teasingly, about this. "I know what's in my heart," he says.

Twelve years ago he was faced by a devastating family crisis which I knew affected him deeply. Only rarely did he allow his emotions to get the better of him. A friend of his talked to me about this admiringly. "That's P," he said, "he's so jai yen."

We British are often mocked for our "stiff upper lip" response to problems. However, no one I've met has faced both happiness and tragedy with such moderation, equanimity and restraint.

When I first knew him, I'd tell him that ,one day, he'd return to the monastery in Kamphaeng Phaet which he'd just left and become a monk. He'd laugh and tell me he was too happy in Pattaya, living a gay life with his friends. But I think that much of what he learnt as a Buddhist will always remain with him. Particularly his jai yen.

[cdnmatt]

Nice story, thanks for sharing it.

If you wanted to spark a conversation, should have maybe went with greeng-jai though instead of jai-yen. As that one usually sparks an 8 page thread with a bunch of folks trying to one-up each other and tell each other its real meaning.

[Dodger]

Who appreciates the highly -regarded Thai ideal of "jai yen" (literally, a cool heart)?

Put me on this list.

This one simple term is used to describe the one thing about Thais that mystified me the most when I first came to Thailand.

I knew that Thais, like most Asians, are nonconfrontational in nature, and tend to be more clam about things in general, but the way they handle upsetting or stressful conditions with such a sense of calm just amazed me.

Jai yen, which is also synonymous with "acceptance", is definitely more than just a mindset, it's an extremely important element of Thai lifestyles, and you can see this on a daily basis in the way they interact with each other, deal with their children, handle fearful and sorrowful events, even the death of a loved one, as well as the myriad of difficult day-to-day situations that crop up.

The thing that attracts me emotionally to my partner Jai the most, is his jai yen personality, and the influence that this element of his personality has had on our relationship. Admittedly, his jai yen personality, and the way he reacts to situations in such a calm manner, has influenced the way I react to similar conditions myself - and has changed me for the better.

This facet of Thai culture (jai yen) is also an important component of Buddhist beliefs that are deeply woven in the fabric of Thailand. Practicing humility versus allowing one's ego to guide their ship is an important aspect of jai yen. There's a lot to learn just by observing them, and it sure makes life a lot more balanced and pleasurable.

Great topic.

[Armando]

Jai yen, which is also synonymous with "acceptance", is definitely more than just a mindset, it's an extremely important element of Thai lifestyles, and you can see this on a daily basis in the way they interact with each other, deal with their children, handle fearful and sorrowful events, even the death of a loved one, as well as the myriad of difficult day-to-day situations that crop up.

Jai yen can also backfire, as it were, when friends simply will not tell you something that they feel will either make them lose face or upset you. In 1996 I met a lovely guy in Heaven sauna at the foot of Silom. I took him for dinner afterwards and learned that he was in his last year of University studies. He was so proud that he was the first member of his family to go to University and get a degree.

We met on quite a few occasions thereafter and I always enjoyed his company. Eventually Than found a Thai boyfriend and said he was very happy. It took probably two years for me to find out that the boyfriend actually had another boyfriend to whom he had been attached for several years and who he was not prepared to give up. So Than's long term prospects did not look good. Over several lunches I did all I could to get him to give this guy up and find another boyfriend. He always said he would try - but he never did.

Fast forward another few years. After a lunch in his favourite inexpensive Japanese restaurant, he insisted on paying the bill. When I saw his wallet I was amazed to see a large number of cards. I asked how many cards he owned. He had about 10 debit cards from various banks and a dozen discount cards from various stores. I asked why he needed so many debit cards. Oh, the banks just send them to me, so I use them was his reply.

Although this concerned me, it was obviously his business and he was smart enough to know that bank cards can be great until you run up debts on them. At least I thought so. But the next time we met, my concern got the better of me and I asked if he had any debt on his cards. He tried not to answer but by then I knew how to get round his defences. Finally he informed me he was maxed out on all of them. But don't worry, he added. I pay the interest every month and still have plenty to live on. Oh no! Not this madness, I thought. So over a period of about three months I did all I could to drum into him that he had to find a way to start paying back the principal and avoid the huge interest charges he was incurring. I even offered to go with him to each of the banks to try and negotiate some form of repayment plan. No, that will not work, he said. Later he said he would go to the banks, but I know he never did.

Inevitably he had to stop paying some of the interest and the banks came after him. He changed his apartment, left his job to work for an antiques company in River City that would pay him cash instead of directly to a bank and generally did all he could to avoid the debt collectors. He moved around quite a lot. During this time at another lunch, he told me that banks only have 3 years to reclaim debit card debt. Thereafter the debt is written off. How true this was, I have no idea, but it certainly seemed strange. Whatever he did, it seemed to work.

He then started a small business with a stall at Chatuchak and then a small shop in the Terminal 21 shopping mall. He then expanded with a little shop across from Central World. It always amused me that he called his shops 'Happy Closet'. At this time, he was in about the 7th year of his menage a trois-type arrangement with his boyfriend. The three of us once went to a movie and then had dinner. He was an extremely nice, professional guy. I wanted to ask a lot of questions about his two relationships, but clammed up as I felt it really was not my business.

About 7 years ago he gave up his shop near Central World after all the shopkeepers there had difficulties with the landlord, Chulalongkorn University. About a year later he also gave up the Terminal 21 shop when business got bad. Some years before though, he had got the travel bug. He was travelling to various parts of China and India sourcing product for his store. He even went to the far north of Russia on one trip. By this time we had taken to having very nice Italian buffet lunches in the restaurant in the Continent Hotel across Asoke from Terminal 21. Again, he would sometime pay. Whenever I asked about business, the reply would be it's not great but we're getting by.

I would sometimes see him at Chatuchak since the boyfriend of a good friend of mine also has a shop there. Around 3 years ago, I went to Than's shop to ask if he could add a couple of patches on to an old pair of jeans whose back pockets were wearing thin. That was the last time I saw him. A few weeks later I called about lunch. The phone was dead. I assumed he had had to change his number and forgotten to message it to me. After three months having heard nothing from him, I went out to Chatuchak. Only his two assistants were in the store. I asked where Than was. This was clearly embarrassing. One said he was sorry Than was not in Chatuchak that day. This boy had been the main assistant working in Terminal 21 and so he knew me well. As his eyes were down and he did not want to look at me, I realised something was wrong. So I asked the lady. She said nothing. I then explained to her that I had known and been friends with Than for more than 20 years. If there was something wrong, please could she tell me.

She was also looking at the ground. Then she said "He's gone".

At first I naively thought he was off on another trip. Then it hit me. He was dead. I asked if she could tell me what happened. Slowly, again not looking at me, she looked at the boy and then away from him. Without looking at me she said there had been a fire in the condo complex in Ladphrao where he had rented a room. He could not get out in time, she added. She gave me the date of the 100 day ceremony after death and said she hoped I could be there. Walking out of Chatuchak I did not believe the story I had just been told. I was certain he had committed suicide. With my Thai partner we scanned as many news outlets as we could about a Ladphrao condo fire. We found nothing. All I can assume was that Than's debts had become unbearable and that perhaps, finally, he had broken off with his boyfriend. Finally he had had to face up to the truth and it had all become too much for him. To this day I hope I am wrong. I don't think so. He was only 43.

[StevieWonders]

Jai yen can also backfire, as it were, when friends simply will not tell you something that they feel will either make them lose face or upset you.

Culturally it’s Asia’s major weakness. Why did China cease innovating in the 15th century? To continue would challenge social norms. Why are most if not all Japanese Nobel Prize winners in science living abroad? To avoid the inevitable challenges to their superiors’ knowledge if they remained in Japan (and inevitably causing them to lose face). And so it goes on.

[Dodger]

She gave me the date of the 100 day ceremony after death and said she hoped I could be there.

I'm very sorry for the loss of your friend.

By chance, were you able to attend the 100 day ceremony?

If you did attend, and avoided asking anyone at the ceremony about the actual cause of his death, that would have been jai yen.

[latintopxxx]

...and thats why america rules (dont mean to be crass) but in the US tfo be declared bankrupt or to fail is not the end...its simply the beginning of a new chapter...

[Armando]

I'm very sorry for the loss of your friend.

By chance, were you able to attend the 100 day ceremony?

If you did attend, and avoided asking anyone at the ceremony about the actual cause of his death, that would have been jai yen.

Thanks Dodger. Yes I did attend and I did keep my mouth shut. I was merely there to mourn my friend and offer condolences to his friends.

[arsenal]

Latin wrote.
"...and thats why america rules (dont mean to be crass) but in the US tfo be declared bankrupt or to fail is not the end...its simply the beginning of a new chapter..."

Not just America, the UK too. I've lost count of how many over 60s who've discovered a new avenue of income and life.

"'Whether you're white, black, Asian, male, female, gay or straight. Being born British is an enormous stroke of luck."
Andrew Marr.
Here here.

Paraphrased cos I can't remember thel exact quote.

[sglad]

If you did attend, and avoided asking anyone at the ceremony about the actual cause of his death, that would have been jai yen.

No, that would have just been good manners or มารยาทที่ดี.

Using the example above, you can have a short-tempered or jai ron ใจร้อน person attend the same funeral and not ask any intrusive questions because it's simply not good manners to do so.

The concept of jai yen or ใจเย็น is certainly not as prevalent in Thai daily life today as Dodger and Oliver would like to present it, not unless Dodger and Oliver work for the failed Tourism Authority of Thailand and would like to portray Thai society as quaint and frozen in a 19th century time capsule for visiting tourists to ogle at. It has its origins in Siam's long history of slavery - not Buddhism - where it was used to keep the minions obedient and contented. "Don't rebel, don't speak up, do as you're told, keep a cool heart and be thankful for your lot. If you lose your cool, you will lose face." Very convenient for keeping the masses in tow.

The recent student-led protests against the Establishment, is a good example. of how things are a changin. They spoke up, they stood up and clearly enunciated their demands. And how did the Establishment respond? Not by addressing the concerns of the protesters or engaging them in the issues but telling them to stand down as to protest would be against "Thai values", the nation, its revered institutions, blah, blah, blah. But the protesters have not been cowed, only lying low for now until it is time to rise up again...

I'm surprised that Dodger and Oliver, who like to present themselves as heroes of the downtrodden on this forum, did not pick up on this - or is jai yen only convenient and to be promoted when and if it keeps certain segments of the population poor, needy and obedient, thus maintaining a pool of pliant prostitutes for their indulgence?