Babylon Memories

[goji]

Every Sauna I know has closed.

I think there were about 6 saunas open in London prior to the plague. Obviously none of them are permitted to open at present.
The Pleasuredrome Website indicates they will be reopening soon. The Shitbox, sorry Sweatbox had a major refit a couple of years ago, so I guess they will reopen.

There's a definite decline in this sector. Berlin is down from 3 saunas to 1 pre-covid, although at least it was a very nice sauna, unlike the grotty ones in London.

There's a definite decline in the sauna business everywhere I go. Even on the occasional visit to The Pleasuredrome, there are not even any fit lads to look at from a distance, never mind fit & available.

As with everything, I suspect it's mobile phone dating that's killing them off.
For the youngsters, why spend £20 in a sauna, when they can meet someone on Grindr for free ?
Then once hardly any youngsters are there, there's even less reason for the remainder to go.

I imaging phones are killing off the sauna trade in Bangkok too. Possibly combined with property redevelopment opportunities.

I wouldn't think the Sansuk in Pattaya has long to go. Farang don't go to Pattaya to chase after other Farang and the cute Asian youngsters are priced out of the place. It's difficult to hook fish without bait.

[Marc K]

Most of them have gone the way of lidos, independent cinemas and Concorde. How do we come to lose such beautiful things?

Now that is an excellent question! There is something about gay society or gay culture which "moves on" and destroys the most recent fad in the process. I don't think we will see anything like Babylon ever again. I would never have guessed that we would allow Babylon to flit through our fingers into history.

I do wonder what will go on to define the next era of "gay culture". Gay marriage to emulate straight couples? Apps to supplant the more primal hunt we practiced in our generation? Metrosexuality? I suspect gays coming of age now will have very different lives than any of us have had.

[StevieWonders]

There is something about gay society or gay culture which "moves on" and destroys the most recent fad in the process.

What a load of sententious rubbish. If anything it’s a defining characteristic of Western society as a whole, especially since the Enlightenment.

I do wonder what will go on to define the next era of "gay culture". Gay marriage to emulate straight couples? Apps to supplant the more primal hunt we practiced in our generation? Metrosexuality? I suspect gays coming of age now will have very different lives than any of us have had.

We’ll be the last generation of men prepared to travel thousands of kilometres to fuck prostitutes half our age?

[Oliver2]

My generation spent our youth in a period when all homosexual acts were illegal. It is no wonder that some of us grew-up damaged by this. In my case it led to my pretending to be straight until middle-age, knowing that I wasn't.

And nor is it surprising that many of us, having been freed from our chains, chose Thailand as a place where we could, to some degree, make-up for all that we had been denied.

In fact, we were transformed from losers to winners, in that many of us were economically-favoured enough to be able to indulge ourselves and meet beautiful young men while our straight contemporaries had often given-up on sex with their increasingly plain wives.

I deeply regret what I missed in my youth but in terms of what I was getting pre-Covid,I cannot help feeling a little smug....I think that I, or we, deserved it.

[StevieWonders]

My generation spent our youth in a period when all homosexual acts were illegal.

It was hugely liberating. It taught me very early on that most people (parents, priests, teachers, the man in the street) are fools and the law is a social construct that we should view on an opt-in basis.

[Armando]

I imaging phones are killing off the sauna trade in Bangkok too. Possibly combined with property redevelopment opportunities.

I don't agree with the former suggestion. In Bangkok there are still many saunas doing what I am told is a very good trade. What has changed is that saunas catering largely to western farang, better heeled Thais and located close to the centre of the city have disappeared. That may indeed be something to do with land prices and property development. From what I hear, Babylon is dying/has died primarily due to a family land dispute. In that location, the value of the land in that area must have risen hugely over the last few years. But the thriving saunas are mostly located nearer the outskirts of the city and are primarily Thai for Thai. Most westerners and tourists would not have a clue where they are and could not be bothered finding out.

In other parts of Asia, there is still a thriving sauna business, often quite close to city centres. Tokyo has a host of saunas and hattenba, several open to foreigners of which the 24 Kaikan saunas in Ueno and Shinjuku ni-chome are probably the best known and particularly active. The most elegant sauna in Taipei Aniki Wow has recently closed, but that is hardly surprising given that the entry price they charged was way too high. The relatively new Soi13In is often packed with several hundred patrons. Singapore also has several saunas in the central area. According to one Singapore gay chatroom these are again very busy although mostly at week-ends.

I cannot see mobile phone apps killing off gay saunas. There will still be a desire, especially amongst younger guys, to attend somewhere they can be anonymous, can see groups of fellow gays and have the opportunity of choosing who they might wish to hook up with. Too many of the apps have photographs and/or profiles that are out of date. Younger guys want more certainty and do not want to wait. Besides, quite a few can not take guys back to their homes. I see saunas in Asia continuing to play a role in gay entertainment, but as is now happening they will be more for a local crowd.

[bjbjboy]

From 1997 to 2001, living in Japan and China, I went to Thailand (only a 5-6 hour trip!) for long weekends and longer visits at other times of the year. I also remember the "first" Babylon, and distinctly remember my amazement at how lovely it was. Compact and yes, like a club. In terms of warmth and welcoming feel, the "second" Babylon, with it's mostly grey concrete finishes, wasn't "warm" but really, so impressive that it's weathered 20+ years of constant use. They were smart to make the design so simple and easy to clean.
I stayed at the Barracks above maybe 3 times, but never liked that so much. Was it still operational pre Pandemic?
I must say that the food in the restaurant, over the years, was always quite decent and reasonably priced considering the farang and upper middle class (?) Thai clientele. The gym was great, the pool was great, and even some of the events were fun like foam parties (maybe 15 years ago for me). Staff always was fine, and it was usually reasonably clean-- especially considering the hundreds of people having sex there EVERY DAY for 20+ years.

[christianpfc]

But the thriving saunas are mostly located nearer the outskirts of the city and are primarily Thai for Thai. Most westerners and tourists would not have a clue where they are and could not be bothered finding out.

...The most elegant sauna in Taipei Aniki Wow has recently closed, but that is hardly surprising given that the entry price they charged was way too high. The relatively new Soi13In is often packed with several hundred patrons.

I cannot see mobile phone apps killing off gay saunas. There will still be a desire, especially amongst younger guys, to attend somewhere they can be anonymous, can see groups of fellow gays and have the opportunity of choosing who they might wish to hook up with. Too many of the apps have photographs and/or profiles that are out of date. Younger guys want more certainty and do not want to wait. Besides, quite a few can not take guys back to their homes. I see saunas in Asia continuing to play a role in gay entertainment, but as is now happening they will be more for a local crowd.

There is a decline in numbers of gay saunas in the outskirts as well. For every new one that opens, two old close. I have been to all of them (pre-Covid, see my blog), but none was convincing. The number dropped from about 30 in 2015 to about 20 in 2019, and many will close permanently because of Covid.

I went to Aniki WOW once, and facilities and customer base were okay, but the entry price, 800 NTD which is about 20 EUR or 800 THB, is too much. Soi13in (entry price 600 NTD when I last went in 2019) is my favorite sauna (and the only one go/went regularly with a good chance to have fun) and at the weekend it was brimming. Standing room only in the steam room. I have never seen a sauna in Thailand even close to that busy.

One of my friends in Taipei mentioned that he thinks he is bisexual and I recommended he go to a gay sauna to see if he likes it without any commitment or effort (setting up an online dating profile, finding a place and time to meet). Another one lives with his family and from his place to my place would be too far, so we met in Soi13in and basically used it as a short time room (expensive at 2x600 NTD and very poorly equipped; should have gotten a short-time hotel).