Burma – Myanmar

[Dodger]

Technically speaking the country of Burma existed only from 1 April 1937 until 4 Januay 1948. If you must use 'Burma' please respect the ethnics, who have suffered so much at the hands of the Burmese, and use the full name "The Union of Burma".

billy, I meant to thank you for your insightful post before, and entered the name "Brad" in error. So, thank you.

According to pro-democracy activists, the name is useful in gauging how countries feel about the regime. Dictatorships like China, North Korea, Cuba, and possibly others, remain supportive of the hostile military regime, and refer to the country as Myanmar for that reason, whereas Democratic Countries like the U.S., UK, and others, still refer to the country as Burma.

Russia is a major arms supplier to Myanmar, and its Deputy of Defense minister reportedly met coup leader General Min Aung Hlaing in the capital Naypyitaw last month, drawing criticism from rights activists who accused Moscow of legitimizing the junta. Russia is clearly not happy with the recent sanctions imposed by the West which compromise their arms sales, and is continuing to support the military junta for this reason ($$$).

Read about it here (Reuters):

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-m...-idUSKBN2BT0MP

[billyhouston]

I think that much of the reason for using the name 'Burma' harks back to Aung San Suu Kyi's demanding that the country be called by that name. To misquote the celebrated Miss Mandy Rice-Davies, "she would say that wouldn't she" because she was, and still is, a Burmese nationalist. At the end of WW2, the government of Clem Atlee was not minded to include the so called 'Frontier' or 'Primitive' areas in an independent country, as they were not thought to be ready for independence. At the time the British were running down the army after an exhausting 6 years of war and, particularly in 1947, had domestic problems with a harsh winter and the need even for bread rationing. Bogoke Aung San threatened to use his army and Britain capitulated to his demand that these areas be part of the independent country. Britain demanded that the agreement of the ethnics be obtained and this was partially done. The Chin, the Kachin and the Shan met with Aung San and the outcome was the Panglong Agreement of 12 February 1947. The Karen refused to participate as they felt that what was on offer was less than they had been promised, which was independence.

In addition, and I imagine in an attempt to protect the ethnics, Articles 201 to 206 were included in 'The Constitution of the Union of Burma 1947'. These gave the ethnic States (with the exception of the Kachin for technical reasons) the right to secede subject to certain conditions. They also set out the mechanism that would be used for secession. Shortly after the ten year condition was met, the Burmese put the army into the ethnic areas to prevent the 'breakup'. The reign of terror that followed defies belief, but we are talking about remote parts of the world which seldom, if ever, received public attention. I spend time with one of the rebel armies who have been fighting the Burmese for more than 60 years, in one form or another, and try to help them understand how the present situation came about. In Shan State, and I don't doubt that it was the same in other 'States', (The States are the ethnic areas of the country and the 'Divisions' the Burmese areas.) the language in schools was Burmese and Shan was forbidden. The people were denied not only their language, but also their history and their culture. The language was used at home and also taught in Buddhist temples. The history and culture were also taught in Wats, and, on the history side, I did some of this myself. Interestingly Maths and Science were taught in English from age 11 or 12.

Interestingly, both the UN and Amnesty International use the term Myanmar. The 2008, Nargis, Constitution calls the country 'The Republic of the Union of Burma', which I found unacceptable having only read as far as article 6!

I could go on to recount some of the family's experiences, which beggar belief, but I have already written too much.

[Moses]

Russia is clearly not happy with the recent sanctions imposed by the West which compromise their arms sales, and is continuing to support the military junta for this reason ($$$).

Read about it here (Reuters):

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-m...-idUSKBN2BT0MP

Again somebody speaking about sanctions? Do you mean toothless actions of US govt against Junta's leaders?

Let's see real picture on SIPRI https://armstrade.sipri.org/armstrad...e_register.php

Myanmar's suppliers in 2010-2020:

Austria - copters, 2018
Belgium - helicopters 2016,
France diesels for military ships 2010,
Germany military aircrafts 2015
Israel 2014-15 armored cars
Netherlands Fokker aircrafts 2017,
Ukraine: tanks, missiles, helicopters

But is correct: biggest suppliers are China, Russia and India.

[aot871]

Moses ,,,,,,,Are u just a mouth piece for Putin .?

[Brad the Impala]

Thanks Billy for this informative post

[Dodger]

I.

In Shan State, and I don't doubt that it was the same in other 'States', (The States are the ethnic areas of the country and the 'Divisions' the Burmese areas.) the language in schools was Burmese and Shan was forbidde.

billy,

Do you happen to know what the status of the Shan state is now?

Does it still have the status of an autonomous region?

Any of your personal insight would be appreciated.

[billyhouston]

During the British occupation (1885-1948) the Federated Shan States had the status of a British Protectorate. This included the Shan States and what is now Kayah State, home to the Karreni or Red Karen. This meant that they were ruled by the Saophas, or hereditary princes, and were not part of 'ministerial' Burma which was ruled from Delhi and, thus, Burma became a province of India until 1937.

These days there are regions in the East of Shan State that are Wa autonomous regions. The UWSA (United Wa State Army) is the most powerful of all the EAOs (Ethnic Armed Organisations). They're Chinese backed and, basically, drug runners masquerading as an ethnic army. If you want to know where Thailand's yaba and ya-ice come from, look no further. There is a town in the very north of Thailand where the border actually runs through the outskirts of the town and where it's convenient to be able to speak Mandarin! Many of the inhabitants are ethnic Wa and the other side of the border is actually controlled by the Wa.

Otherwise Shan State is by some way the largest of the Regions (States or Divisions) of the country. The government writ does not run in much of the South of the State which is controlled by the SSA (South) and, in the East by the aforementioned Wa. Protests have taken place in the capital, Taunggyi and in the North of the State around Hsipaw, Lashio and, possible, Namtu. In this region the TNLA (Palaung people) and the KIA (Kachin people) are active but there is currently fighting between the TNLA and the SSA (South) who are seeking to move into the area. My line with the SSA is that Shan fighting Burmese is fine, but Shan fighting Shan is unacceptable. This results in quite heated discussions and their reason for doing it makes me very angry.

The greater part of Shan State is, nominally at least, under government control.

[Moses]

Moses ,,,,,,,Are u just a mouth piece for Putin .?

Yes, sure. Austria, Belgium, France, Germany, Israel, Netherlands, and even Ukraine supplied junta with military technics and weapons as per records of most reputable Sweden military institute, but this only because Moses is "mouthpiece of Putin" and not because money made these govts shameless and equal in morale to Russia, India and China... right?

[Dodger]

137 Human Rights Organizations from 31 countries petitioned the UN to support sanctions of Arms sales to Burma/Myranmar. The Country’s selling military hardware to Burma/Myranmar include: China, Russia, North Korea, India, Israel, Ukraine and the Philippines.

It goes without saying that supplying any equipment to the military right now enables further abuses and bolsters the junta’s ability to repress Myanmar’s people, thus the reason a Global Arms Embargo is now being strongly considered.

As always, it all about; Power Struggle - Political Gamesmanship - $$$Money$$$. While the PEOPLE who are suffering atrocities and having their human rights violated have the wonderful choices of either; A) protesting and risk being killed, or B) sitting back in the dark shadows waiting for some fucking miracle to occur.

In all fairness to the discussion, no country sells, or spends more, on military arms/equipment than The United States. I’ve often wondered what the World would be like if we didn’t have to spend all of this money - just to protect ourselves from each other. What a fucking abstract concept. A World where countries actually looked for opportunities to help each other, versus, hyperventilating over the prospects of gaining more power and building empires, only to attempt ruling people, who have no intention of being RULED.. I know I’m going off the deep end a bit, but this is exactly how I view these things.

Personally, I’m not very optimistic about the outcome in Burma/Myranmar. My confidence in UN actions when it comes to protecting human rights violations is close to ZERO, and history shows us that it usually takes decades, if not longer, for military dictatorships to be toppled.

My heart goes out to the PEOPLE.

Below is a link to the arms embargo write-up:

https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/02/24/...mbargo-myanmar

Countries with the largest Military Spending 2019

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...tary-spending/

[Dodger]

the British occupation (1885-1948) the Federated Shan States had the status of a British Protectorate. This included the Shan States and what is now Kayah State, home to the Karreni or Red Karen.

billy,

Thank you very much for taking the time to educate all of us on the history and demographics of The Union of Burma.

If you don't mind me asking; What was your role when you were there?

I fully understand if you would rather not answer this, but I'm just curious. You've certainly obtained more information than the regular NGO or Forward Observer, and I doubt that there are any journalists who could have braved the elements, as you clearly did, during your tenure there.

Also: Again, if you don't mind sharing: Do you have an opinion regrading the outcome that you'd be willing to share with us?