Been closed since at least December when I arrived in Pattaya. Probably a lot longer.Originally Posted by Marc K
Shows no sign of reopening.
Been closed since at least December when I arrived in Pattaya. Probably a lot longer.
Shows no sign of reopening.
Marc K wrote:
Only if gay guys lose their taste for sleaze.What does this mean for this ilk post-COVID? Are all such establishments doomed?
I can't see that ever happening, anywhere in the world.
Most of the bookshops closed, because Amazon sell books cheaper.
In some countries, most of the electronics shops closed because people can buy the products on line cheaper.
Berlin, with a thriving gay scene, was down to just one gay sauna when I was last there a couple of years ago.
London still had a few scruffy saunas pre-covid, but they didn't seem to attract many younger customers.
Perhaps people discovered they can get what they want on a phone app ? Rather than paying almost £20 to visit a sauna, then finding the sauna is having a quiet night.
I cannot say I like this, but it's another change we might just need to adapt to.
I can definitely see that happening. In fact has already happened... in Bangkok, San Francisco, Berlin, Amsterdam, Honolulu ... and a zillion other places. (Sansuk Pattaya to follow?)
I've never heard a good definition of what constitutes "sleaze". Perhaps a447 you can help me out. Perhaps in our generation we needed to seek out "sleaze" as a way for compensating for our inner insecurities and our feelings of rejection and lack of acceptance by the larger (mostly) straight society?
I think the younger generation sees things a little bit differently than we... perhaps not needing this "crutch" quite as much. Maybe they have more self-esteem and feelings of self-worth and feelings of acceptance than we do/did? Not sure.
This could also account for why there seem to be far fewer young(er) sex-tourists coming to Pattaya. Without replenishment and rejuvenation, Pattaya can never boom (boom-boom?) again.
Demographics doom establishments that don't account for this change.
I would loosely define "sleaze" as the hands-on experience I have enjoyed in such places as Niceboys, Goodboys, Golden Cock, Eros, Natureboy and similar bars, as opposed to the more conservative gogo bars like Screwboys, Moonlight and Boyzboyzboyz.
I grew up in a country with an "anything-goes" approach to sex where the general idea was to get down and dirty and as often as possible. I gladly accepted the challenge from an early age. I spent an inordinate amount of time in gay cinemas and enjoyed the free-for-all fun. I was also a paid-up member of sex clubs in the Ueno area of Tokyo. I have since sold my memberships - they are like golf club memberships and are treated like investments - and managed to make a very tidy profit! Would I make the same profit if I sold them today? I'm guessing I would as the interest in the various "activities" offered by such clubs still exists among the Japanese, despite other outlets being available.
I was under the impression that all of this was just par for the course - that this is what sex, especially gay sex, is all about. On moving back to Australia I soon discovered that my new gay friends had very different experiences; very tame indeed, compared to Japan. I enjoyed sleaze, they just had basic sex.
For me, sleazy sex has nothing to do with insecurity. When moving within the gay community I just did what everyone else did. As for feeling in any way rejected by straight people, I can't say I ever really experienced that, even though in my day I'm sure most Japanese would have frowned upon my behaviour despite the fact they were doing the same thing themselves in girlie bars and clubs. But I never experienced any hostility whatsoever and in any case, it would not have bothered me. However, I think your comments may well apply to gays in other countries.Perhaps in our generation we needed to seek out "sleaze" as a way for compensating for our inner insecurities and our feelings of rejection and lack of acceptance by the larger (mostly) straight society?
Saunas are still popular in Japan. So why have saunas been closing down in other countries? I'm guessing that is a matter of hygiene. People these days are much more aware of cleanliness, the lack of which I find a total turn-off. I no longer go to saunas. Another worrying feature is the lack of condom use and general safe-sex practices. That's another reason I won't go anymore. I don't want to go to places where guys are having bareback sex.
I think one of the reasons for the lack of -pre-covid customers is the fact that, although Thailand is infamous fir sex tourism, it mainly relates to straight sex. Everyone, straight and gay, knows about Walking Street, but his many have heard of Sunee Plaza, the world centre of sleazy sex for gay men? Did the average Chinese gay guy know about it? Have the gogo bars done any advertising in China? Or India? I've never seen anything here in Australia about gay Thailand.
Babylon would be well-known by the seasoned gay sex tourist, just like the gay beaches around the world. Anyone into saunas would be aware of its reputation and for that reason alone, it will survive.
But only so long as enough gays return to Thailand after the pandemic.
As for younger people, has Thailand ever really attracted them? So is there anything that needs to be "replenished"? I've mainly seen old guys in the bars. (The only young guys have been Asian.) Besides, sleaze is probably not something they have grown up with so it is not what they are looking for.
Growing up in the 60''s & 70's was an exciting time (to put it mildly), filled with seeking out different ways to express ourselves...freeing ourselves...and ridding ourselves of all the ridiculous religious morality taboos that previous generations were brainwashed into believing. Smoke-filled dingy basements and garages, with braless young girls, face-painted long-hairs, boys-hugging-boys, where nothing matched or lined up perfectly, became the new generations preferred environment. According to the older generation, this became the definition of "Sleaze".
The 60's/70's revolution (in the U.S. anyway) wasn't fueled so much by a need to compensate for anyone's inner insecurities, feelings of rejection, or a lack of acceptance by the larger (mostly) straight society. Conversely, it was more of a movement that got ignited to free ourselves from the insecurities of the older generation, with the understanding that the acceptance by the older generation was no longer needed, nor was it beneficial to the way the world should be headed.
I still get a rush being in a sleazy sex venue where you can let your hair down... slide your hand down a complete strangers underpants...fondle him like you do in your dreams...giving or receiving a blowjob in a dark shadow...or sipping from the same glass that he just came inside. Places that intentionally appear perfect...with people who are intentionally trying to look and act perfect...doing what their bible-thumping parents and grandparents would perceive as being morally perfect, reminds me of roaming with the dinosaurs and bores me to death.
I totally agree with your point about changing times:
With the gay dating apps gaining in popularity the number of gay bars and other public venues will surely decrease over time. And the days of the hidden back-alley gay bars, usually located in the less-than-desirable parts of town, is coming to an end for the very points you emphasized. The older generations have died off, and those pot-smoking braless girls and boys-hugging-boys who were spawned back in the 60's & 70's are now running the roost. Being gay is actually in fashion now, and smoking pot is becoming legal. Go figure!
I'm not sure if things are much better now or not. I kinda liked the sleaze of the back alleys and the hiding part...but I'm willing to go with the flow.
Oliver2 (March 6th, 2021)
The 40 somethings would/should be the generation that are just now 'discovering' Pattaya. Dinnkies and sinnkies with disposable income a plenty to afford more expensive holidays, however for several reasons they aren't. Job insecurity, the cost of property, the
knowledge that old age will be a cold time if they aren't financially prepared etc.
Plus the bank collapse of 2008 ended the 3 year owner/tourists. Those guys who camr for 3 years or so in a 'holiday' from their real jobs before returning home.
The end of Plagueworld might see a 'life's too short' attitude and a resurgence in both tourists and owner/tourists.
"Sleaze" Just a word to describe others sexual fun used by those who don't get any.
I read something elsewhere online that suggested the Babylon property was already being redeveloped. If true, that's really sad news. If anyone is in that area would sure appreciate an update on Babylon.
Permanently closed. End of an era. Coming soon 50 floor condo tower, Sukhothai 2???
I have been assured that the wonderful French restaurant 'le Bouchon', previously in Patpong 2 has moved into the 'original' Babylon building.
I'll be checking it out soon.
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