Be careful what they inject you with

[gerefan2]

Be careful what they inject you with..
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54002880

[Moses]

Be careful what they inject you with..
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54002880

It is most stupid propaganda from BBC I read. Kremlin uses Novichok on Navalniy and after that allows to take him from Russia to collect evidence and use such evidence against them? Bullshit. They for sure aren't friendliest and most democratic people in world, but there are no morons in Kremlin.

"Sorry, Navalniy's conditions not allow to transfer him by air" - that's all what they had to say and nobody can oppose to doctor. After past case in England they for sure know what nobody will collect real evidences, opponents at West will just cry in medias "highly likely" without any proof and without court's decision.

[arsenal]

Moses wrote.
"It is most stupid propaganda from BBC I read. Kremlin uses Novichok on Navalniy and after that allows to take him from Russia to collect evidence and use such evidence against them? Bullshit. They for sure aren't friendliest and most democratic people in world, but there are no morons in Kremlin.

"Sorry, Navalniy's conditions not allow to transfer him by air" - that's all what they had to say and nobody can oppose to doctor. After past case in England they for sure know what nobody will collect real evidences, opponents at West will just cry in medias "highly likely" without any proof and without court's decision."

Do you really not get it. Putin is quite happy for the world to know his capabilities of assassination. Helps keep all those dissidents quiet. That's the message. Nowhere is safe so don't cause trouble. It's basically a commercial for The Kremlin's black ops department.

[Moses]

Do you really not get it. Putin is quite happy for the world to know his capabilities of assassination. Helps keep all those dissidents quiet. That's the message. Nowhere is safe so don't cause trouble. It's basically a commercial for The Kremlin's black ops department.

It is you who not got: Navalniy is Kremlin's project. I not tell "it is Putin's project", but for sure he is Kremlin's project. Few years ago when Medvedev was here president, Navalniy published a lot of information how corrupted is Medvedev, and he did his publication just few months before new elections where Putin and Medvedev were most possible future presidents. On such way Kremlin had warranty what Medvedev will be not elected and had warranty what only one exactly person will win election - Putin. Navalniy is pipe for leaks, what Kremlin/FSB(KGB) uses for to make unofficial leaks. And please pay attention: for 20+ years Navalniy made ZERO publications against Putin. Zero. Here only kids trusts to Navalniy's sect.

Navalniy is Jealous to any leaders of opposition, he cooperate only with far right wing of political specter. Yes, he is good card for West to play game and to blame Russia in Western propaganda, but here in Russia nobody of real politicians from pro-Kremlin movement or from Kremlin's opponents thinks what Navalniy is independent politician. He is puppet in the hands from behind Kremlin's walls.

Oh, and few words about Novichok. It is military grade poison. In England cop from police who found on the bench on the street this Russian pair - father and his girl - and spoke with them got poisoned also. And you trust to story what Navalniy been poisoned by Novichok and after it spend few hours with his press-secretary and other passengers in small room of aircraft and nobody there been poisoned as well?

Let me remind you pictures from UK:

_methode_sundaytimes_prod_web_bin_0ebe5fa8-5b63-11e8-94fc-3fbd0b39cd83.jpg
PAY-SN_LR_MAJOR_INCIDENT_21.jpg

[arsenal]

It seems they don't agree with your analysis.


https://www.npr.org/2020/09/02/90875...t-germany-says

[Moses]

It seems they don't agree with your analysis.


https://www.npr.org/2020/09/02/90875...t-germany-says

I don't care

Once more time: after just short talk with Skripals at open air in Solsbery cop was poisoned and spend days in hospital. As per UK Skripals were poisoned by Novichok. After poisoning Navalniy spend hours with a lot of people in tight room in aircraft and nobody been poisoned with him. But again "highly likely Novichok" says propaganda. The only explanations: one of two cases is lie. Or both.

People can't survive after poisoning by Novichok - it is military grade poison. It works in few minutes max. At war nobody wait for hours or days while poisoned solder will die.

At the end of past century when here in Russia was bad time and you had possibility to buy everything if you had money, one group of bandits bought from lab Novichok and used it on quite rich banker Kivelidi (google that case). Kivelidi died in 3 minutes after took phone with one drop of Novichok on it. Coroner who explored body of Kievelidi died in one month after it even when he never touch that phone and only worked with body (he had no idea what Novichok was used). That is how Novichok works.

And main: we are talking now about assassination attempt (if any) on Russian territory. Here Putin (or any one) has a lot more simple ways to kill Navalniy: "drunk driver", "fallen stone from roof", even Chechen vendetta (check Nemtsov case in Google). To use dangerous Novichok poison in airport for to kill Navalniy? It is quite stupid, you know. Just after small vaporization of Novichok in closed hall of airport you will have on hands tens or hundreds bodies. Do you think what KGB is so stupid?

So I'm 100% sure - it is propaganda. And lie. I can agree what it is possible what somebody tried to poison Navalniy. But I'm sure in 2 points:
- it wasn't Novichok
- it wasn't state business (because state has much more ways on own territory to do it easy and without such noise in mass-medias)

[arsenal]

You've made some fair points there Moses. I would point out that there are in fact a whole range of Novichok poisons so it's possible they have different capabilities including a soluble one that requires ingestion. Like snake venom, no two are the same.

In reality it's very unlikely Putin directly sanctions these murders. Leaders tend to not want to know exactly what their secret services get up to. But all the victims are his enemies.

[StevieWonders]

You've made some fair points there Moses. I would point out that there are in fact a whole range of Novichok poisons so it's possible they have different capabilities including a soluble one that requires ingestion. Like snake venom, no two are the same.

In reality it's very unlikely Putin directly sanctions these murders. Leaders tend to not want to know exactly what their secret services get up to. But all the victims are his enemies.

Putin’s followers are as wedded to “alternative facts” as are Trump’s

[Moses]

Putin’s followers are as wedded to “alternative facts” as are Trump’s

You know: "alternative facts" at least are facts. "Highly likely", "possibly" and "may did it" aren't facts at all...

Facts:
1. Cop in Solsbery was poisoned by Novichok just by presence near Skripals at open air in a few minutes
2. Nobody of passengers and medics were poisoned while spend hours near Navalniy in tight room of aircraft
3. Navalniy never published any info against Putin
4. Navalniy published a lot of information against formerly president Medvedev and against local elites in different regions of Russia
5. On the Russian land hands of secret services are untied: they are on own land and can do whatever and they have no reason to use such complicated method of assassination. Person may just disappears. Or be hitted by car with drunken driver. Or die while sleep in hotel's room after few drops of ricin has been placed in his room (looks like heart stroke).

But propaganda still cries: "Putin did it!" and "It was Novichok". And still zero facts for to prove these cries are published.

[arsenal]

However. A western conspiracy theory doesn't really hold up either. The West can't even agree on the shape of a cucumber never mind a whole industry dedicated to besmirching poor innocent Russia.