Time to Look Elsewhere

[arsenal]

The French are more tolerant of Americans. France helped them against the British in the War of Independence and gave America the Statue of Liberty.

Their collective feelings towards the British are altogether more complicated. Macron has been the awkward sod par excellence during Brexit talks but then came and presented London with the Legion of Honour for WWII saying how eternally grateful the French nation are. Go figure.

[latintopxxx]

oh for heavens sake...any one with a smidgen of higher education HAS to have a working knowledge of English....its a business tool...bit like excel and power point...

[dinagam]

It is quite understandable for you to expect foreigners to learn English for your convenience when travelling abroad. But have you considered the predicaments faced by Europeans once they cross the English Channel? Some of them might be able to follow the Queen's speech, but once they start travelling the nooks and corners of England, both the locals and visitors will have some unforgettable interactions. And once they cross over the Hadrian wall, or land on the emerald island, they might as well continue speaking French or Spanish, or...

[goji]

It is quite understandable for you to expect foreigners to learn English for your convenience when travelling abroad. But have you considered the predicaments faced by Europeans once they cross the English Channel? Some of them might be able to follow the Queen's speech, but once they start travelling the nooks and corners of England, both the locals and visitors will have some unforgettable interactions. And once they cross over the Hadrian wall, or land on the emerald island, they might as well continue speaking French or Spanish, or...

It's just the same for when going from the UK to other countries.
Once one learns enough German to understand normal conversation, some of the local dialects remain incomprehensible. e.g. Schwäbisch

So if strictly following the advice to learn the language of wherever we go to, we would be learning multiple languages and many additional dialects additionally.

[arsenal]

Traditionally the British have not learned others languages. Our way has always been to invade and make them learn ours. It's worked very well to date regardless of whether the invasion was with guns or more recently a desire for cheap booze or hot boys.

[Oliver2]

Our forefathers, eager to extend the White Man's Burden, taught us that we don't need to learn foreign languages, only to speak English very loudly and very slowly.

[goji]

Traditionally the British have not learned others languages. Our way has always been to invade and make them learn ours. It's worked very well to date regardless of whether the invasion was with guns or more recently a desire for cheap booze or hot boys.

Correct.

However, just because the educated people in most all other countries tend to learn English, it doesn't mean it's feasible for us to reciprocate by learning ALL their languages. That's a lot of languages.

If a Thai learns English, he can use that to check into hotels, order meals and conduct other business all over the world, with relatively few exceptions.

If I learn Thai, I can use it in Thailand.
If I go to Myanmar, Thai is no use, so I need to learn another language & another alphabet with it. Probably several dialects as well.
Then moving onto Malaysia, it's another language, or more accurately several of them.

So everyone else learning one foreign language is not equivalent to us learning every other foreign language.
When non-native English speakers learn English, they get more benefit and have the opportunity to constantly practice.

I know, as I can understand one other European language rather well, or at least the formal language, but my capability to speak it has declined due to a lack of practice. I don't often visit the 2.5 countries where it's spoken.

Having made the effort there, I'm not planning to learn any more languages that I might get to use on a 5 day holiday, every 2 or 3 years.

These comments are not intended to be arrogant. It's just how it is -a non-native English speaker has learnt a universal language he can use anywhere for business purposes.
When I learn a second or third language, it's not universal.

Where I SHOULD make an effort is with the Thai language, as I spend enough time there to benefit and get the chance to practise. No excuses.

[a447]

It's just how it is -a non-native English speaker has learnt a universal language he can use anywhere for business purposes.

Some of the guys in the bars have caught on to this. They realise that they will have a greater chance of getting into the farang's bed of they can sit and chat with him. For me there is nothing worse just sitting there with a silly smile on my face, unable to communicate. The same goes for back in the hotel. I look forward to more than a few grunts and moans in bed - I like to chat before and after the fun. If we want to go out for a meal. Sitting in silence in a restaurant defeats the purpose so I would much rather eat alone.

For my part I have tried to learn Thai in order to meet them halfway but the tones have left me floundering and the guys bewildered.

I spoke French at home with mum and English with dad. I then changed to Japanese and in my early teens found myself speaking all three. German came later, as I was a frequent visitor due to my job. I made good friends there and often visited them.

I found that in Germany so many people spoke beautiful English but my friends encouraged me to learn German. I did so out of respect for their wishes.

Australians, like the Americans and English, do not have a good track record when it comes to learning foreign languages. French and German were taught in schools here I believe, and sometime in the 90s it was decided kids should study Asian languages and Japanese and Indonesian became popular. When the Chinese economy took off, schools dropped the European languages and adopted Chinese. However, I heard recently that parents had pressured 2 private schools to drop Chinese on account of their belligerent attitude to Australia.

However, despite languages being part of the curriculum I can't ever recall any Aussie speaking another language with me - and certainly not Japanese.

[gerefan2]

For my part I have tried to learn Thai in order to meet them halfway but the tones have left me floundering and the guys bewildered.

I

Same same, and I have a theory about this.

I went to a language school in Pattaya and learnt a little Thai but it never worked on the guys I spoke to.. Neither did the Thai I had already picked up.

I reckon that due to the number of guys in Pattaya all from different parts of Thailand, all talking in their own dialects, you really have no chance of being understood. Its a bit like being French trying to talk to a group consisting of an English guy, a Scottish guy and a Welshman all at the same time.

No chance!

One way of learning Thai would be to learn it in one area and then talk with the locals. That though may not help much in Pattaya or even BKK.

[a447]

Your theory is probably correct.

But I have another theory - in fact, I shouldn't even call it a theory because I know it's true, as I have experienced it all my life.

When the Japanese look at me, the last thing they are expecting to hear is Japanese; they are expecting me to speak English. That's what they think they will be hearing and that's what they are listening for, so at first they don't realise I'm actually speaking their language!

Once it dawns on them - wtf?? This foreigner is speaking Japanese - there's no problem.

In the shops in Thailand I get the exact same reaction. But even though they eventually realise I'm speaking Thai, it's the tones that let me down, unless I'm saying something really simple, like "Where's the toilet?"

But I'll soldier on.