Thai political discussion

[BOY69]

Anyone who believes that Thaksin was in politics to help the poor and reduce inequality is naive beyond belief. You have only to look into the dealings between ShinCorp and Temasek and the changes in the law, instigated by Thaksin as PM, which made these dealings possible, to see what he was really about. He didn't even have the decency to delay the transaction by so much as a day to make it less obvious. His only concern was increasing his personal wealth and that of his family and cronies. Some of my more cynical Shan friends have pointed out that his visits to certain Shan Temples in Chiang Mai conveniently coincided with those of Khun Sa.

+1

[Oliver2]

Have you considered asking the Thais themselves? And I don't mean the royalist elite but the the workers who make up sixty plus per cent of the population.. They made their feelings clear through the ballot-box, time and time again, only to be told that their votes aren't important enough to count. They never are.
You would hear about the work done in the villages, the support for farmers, the electricity installation, the improvement in health provision and much more. I don't claim that Thaksin was perfect- after all the US style "war on drugs" was a human rights disaster. Nevertheless, he was probably the first Thai leader to give a damn about the poor; and he paid the penalty.

[Smiles]

Oliver has a history of being on the side of many a villain who calls them selves as being "for the people".
A few of his favorites: Stalin, Trotsky, Lenin, Hugo Chavez (his net worth was 1 billion dollars on death), Chavez's clown Maduro (who's net worth is a small 2 million, but give him a chance, he's got a way to go), Robert Mugabe (net worth on death: $20 million), Castro (net worth on death, $900 million) Mao, Mabutu Secu today (net worth: 5 billion $'s. {https://www.infoplease.com/world/pol...rrupt-leaders1 } etc etc etc and on and on . . . they are just the best/worst. All of Africa is still plagued by these bastards, Oliver's 'The People' still Under The Thumb. The West ignores it for the most part. Millions died because of these disgraceful totalitarians so-called 'socialists'.

Thaksin Shinawatra did indeed help out the poor in two major attempts: 1. the government helped control the price of rice, and 2. the 30 baht medical scheme. The latter worked out well, but the rice price control was a disaster as the government chose the Head Men of villages and thus opened the spigots for greed and corruption. It remains still.

Then there's Thaksin's drug crackdown: 2000-3000 murdered by their own govenment.

"In February 2003, the Thai government, under then Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, launched a 'war on drugs', purportedly aimed at the suppression of drug trafficking and the prevention of drug use. In fact, a major outcome of this policy was arbitrary killings. In the first three months of the campaign there were some 3000+ extrajudicial killings. In 2007, an official investigation found that more than half of those killed had no connection whatsoever to drugs.1 Apart from the thousands who lost their lives, thousands more were forced into coercive "treatment" for drug addiction. https://www.hrw.org/news/2008/03/12/thailands-war-drugs."

Oliver loves them all.

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(Having said this, I'm no right-winger by any means. In Canada we have a quite popular social democrat party and I have voted for that party my whole voting life. (To no avail of course, the NDP have won many a Province over the years, but never the Federal government.)

[dinagam]

Have you considered asking the Thais themselves?.. Nevertheless, he was probably the first Thai leader to give a damn about the poor; and he paid the penalty.

Thaksin and his cronies were good at skimming the milk and are currently wallowing in fat and cream in Dubai and elsewhere.

[Khor tose]

Now I have seen it all. I am in agreement with Frequent and Oliver. A bunch of old gays still bemoaning the fact the Thaksin actually helped the poor and closed a lot of go-go bars in the process. I am glad many of you are not American as I am sure you would all be strong Trump supporters. All we now need to hear is some Old F... to give us a two hour nostalgic review of how wonderful it was before Thaksin.
Smiles your up. It a crying shame the bars now have to import boys. Weep-Weep

[frequent]

Now I have seen it all. I am in agreement with Frequent and Oliver. A bunch of old gays still bemoaning the fact the Thaksin actually helped the poor and closed a lot of go-go bars in the process. I am glad many of you are not American as I am sure you would all be strong Trump supporters. All we now need to hear is some Old F... to give us a two hour nostalgic review of how wonderful it was before Thaksin.
Smiles your up. It a crying shame the bars now have to import boys. Weep-Weep

Thaksin’s closing of (boy) gogo bars was aimed squarely at reminding Thais generally that his nemesis, Prem Tinseltoes, was a sodomite; Western sex tourists were merely collateral damage. As for whether he was a “good thing” or not - it rather depends on where the Thai you’re talking to comes from. Smiles’ boyfriend whom he quotes as an authority on Thai politics, comes from the South, as much in the pocket of the Democrats as Isaan and the North is Shinawatra territory. All those posters who have talked to their boyfriends about how they feel about Thaksin should remember the variety of opinions that that same boyfriend could get about, say, Trudeau, Trump, or Johnston if they visited Canada, the US or Britain. Assuming a universal Thai opinion is simply to believe that the elite press (and the English language media in Thailand is all elite) is representative of all Thais, that Fox News represents majority US opinion, or the Telegraph is the house organ of the British middle class

No political system starts off perfect. My hero is Walpole and look what a corrupt system Britain had when he was First Minister

[Smiles]

" ... Now I have seen it all ... "

I doubt that, having attempted to wade through your post above. A large gollup of head-shaking going on there. Some measure of coherence seems to have been washed away with the Elliot Bay tide. For one who has seen everything ... let's just politely say, "it's wanting".

" ... Smiles’ boyfriend whom he quotes as an authority on Thai politics, comes from the South ... "

He's from Surin, deep in the heart of Isaan and Thaksin's red shirts.
Mr Pot is indeed a Thaksin man (as are ~ as you say ~ like most Isaan folks) but have pretty well come to the conclusion that the man will ever be allowed back to Thailand. He takes advantage of the 30 Baht scheme, and whines about the moveable feast of the price of rice and other crops. He does in fact think that Thaksin is/was corrupt, as well as the good stuff.
He has little desire to move to Houston but would like to see snow.

[neddy3]

I suspect that you meant to say that Mr Pot thinks that Thaksin will NEVER be allowed to return to Thailand.

[frequent]

He has little desire to move to Houston but would like to see snow.

I could probably organise a hurricane

[Oliver2]

I appreciate that it's "naive" to be concerned about what the Thais we meet think and what they want- at least if they are from poor farming communities and supported Thaksin- but I recall learning about what it was like for a poor student who'd spent his school career doing homework by candlelight first experienced using electricity in his home.. His village was one of those whose poverty put them at the front of the queue for Thaksin's programme . I doubt very much that he gave a damn what Thaksin's motives were; electricity (and a TV) improved the lives of his family beyond measure. I know that he travelled six hundred kilometers to vote for him.

I note the tendency of conservatives and royalists to accuse the working classes of selfishness, self-interest or even naivety, in voting for a PM who promises to attack the huge economic inequalities of Thai society. On the other hand, the rich who vote for lower taxes to finance their new Ferraris, or even a replacement mia noi, are sophisticated and patriotic.

British and American members may recognise this approach from the careers of Johnson and Trump. Tax breaks for the already wealthy are good for everyone.Self-interest is only reprehensible when it's the self-interest of the poor.