Jomtien being raided as I type

[Old git]

In the days before bar workers had mobile phones there were some unpleasant mamasans in Thailand, who intimidated and presumed to 'own' their girls, although they could always walk out the door, in theory, at least. Those Thai girls who got lured to the Netherlands and put to work in the canal road shops really were trafficked in those days, and the way the Dutch authorities turned a blind eye to it was a disgrace.

But trafficked boys? I've never seen anything that looked remotely dodgy - the boys have always appeared to be pretty much in control of their own destiny. A few feeble, effeminate and insecure types used to let themselves get ordered around - today most in that category seem to go down Soi Katoey..

And scanning this thread I see there seems to have been a bit of a cat fight over older guys paying for sex with younger boys..

Well, I find it really bizarre, if not a bit sick in the head, that there are people in this world who are content to stand idle while poor people die of curable diseases or simple malnutrition, yet will actively interfere to prevent those people bettering themselves through the sale of sexual favours.

If you don't like prostitution, work to eradicate the poverty and create a welfare safety net - don't go wagging a moralistic finger..

[Oliver2]

I met P. at Lucky 7 in 2004. He now looks back on his three years in various bars in Pattaya with nostalgia. He chose that life after trying to live in miserable conditions while working long hours for a paltry wage. As a go go dancer he had friends with whom he'd made the decision to go to Pattaya while in Kamphaeng Phaet, a decent room (not shared), money to go to Hollywood after the bars closed and enough falangs (more Japanese, he says) to pay the rent. Sometimes things were hard but when they were, the three amigos helped each other out financially. I can vouch for this; I saw it happen.

As far as the offs were concerned, he says he had fun. His stories about his experiences are often amusing. I assume that being gay helped; his two best friends were also blessed in this respect..There were exceptions- which still upset him in retrospect- but overall, he says he was treated kindly. He loved the comradeship, the relative freedom and the chance to live an interesting life outside time spent at the bar.

As a nineteen year-old labourer in Bangkok, Chiang Mai and Pattaya- he tried all three- he had none of these things.

By the way, one of the three amigos is now making very good money as a mamasan in boy bar that caters for ladies. He's nearly forty....and still looks good.

[a447]

I met P. at Lucky 7 in 2004. He now looks back on his three years in various bars in Pattaya with nostalgia. He chose that life after trying to live in miserable conditions while working long hours for a paltry wage. As a go go dancer he had friends with whom he'd made the decision to go to Pattaya while in Kamphaeng Phaet, a decent room (not shared), money to go to Hollywood after the bars closed and enough falangs (more Japanese, he says) to pay the rent. Sometimes things were hard but when they were, the three amigos helped each other out financially.

This mirrors the background of my friend in Pattaya.

It was entirely his decision and he's done very well out of it. Certainly no regrets. And being Thai he can work freely and never has to worry about police raids.

[Oliver2]

a477's experience is probably replicated by those of many posters. It would be interesting to hear from them about how their boyfriends regard the choices they have made, or are making. Any regrets?or success stories?
Also interesting is why they made the decision to travel to Pattaya (or Bkk) in the first place. Friends already there? and how long they think their shelf life is. And what happened to the falang-less returnees?

[Moses]

Cleared... The ring with mud was moved to the Holding room

[Nirish guy]

It would be interesting to hear from them about how their boyfriends regard the choices they have made, or are making. Any regrets?

Yes, that would be an interesting topic and even more so if we knew the guys well who were relating the info and not just getting one night stand "bullshit" stories for what they think we want to hear.

I know my own long time friend there who used to work as a go go boy but is now a hairdresser talks of his time in the bar fondly and not in a embarrassed way that we might perhaps be inclined to think if that was part of our last employment record.

In fact just on my last trip he was quite happily chatting away about various things and came out several times like lines like " oh you member when I work bar, I see this or do that" etc but at no point was he ashamed or showed any signs of regretting his choices ( and nor should he in my opinion).

So yes would be interesting to hear about guys and as to whether they DO ever regret coming to Pattaya and "working" there. My own caveat to that would be the boys who went home ( or weren't lucky enough to make it home) as they got ill and either returned home "sick" or didn't make it that far - for them Pattaya leaving for Pattaya was I'm sure one of the worst decisions they ever made :-(

[a447]

a477's experience is probably replicated by those of many posters. It would be interesting to hear from them about how their boyfriends regard the choices they have made, or are making. Any regrets?or success stories?
Also interesting is why they made the decision to travel to Pattaya (or Bkk) in the first place. Friends already there? and how long they think their shelf life is. And what happened to the falang-less returnees?

Here is a post I made last year. It may answer some of your questions.

Last holiday I offered to buy my friend some new shoes to go with the outfit I had bought for him. He declined, telling me I had already spent too much money on him. I promised I would buy them for him on my next visit.

Two days ago we went looking in Central Festival after dinner. Like me, he's very fussy - he knows exactly what he wants - and we spent a lot of time going from shop to shop.

At the end of it all, he found three pairs he liked but none was exactly what he wanted. I told him to keep them in mind and that the next day we could go to Royal Garden, as there is one very nice shoe store there.

So yesterday afternoon after coffee, off we went. Unfortunately, that store has now closed, but he saw one pair in another shop which he liked. It was a Thai brand I'd never heard of.

"Ok. Now we have 4 pairs you can choose from. But there's no need to rush; we can look a bit more."

The only place we hadn't visited was the shoe section in the department store. He soon found a pair which I knew he really wanted. His eyes lit up. They were perfect.

"Ok. Let's buy these," I said.

He looked at the price and hesitated.

"Mmm...I think shoes in Royal Garden ok."

"Which ones do you really want?"

After some hesitation he said "I like these ones."

So I bought them.

Some Thai guys have a reputation for being money-grabbing, greedy buggers whose main aim is to extract as much as possible from the "rich" farang. This guy is living proof that such a reputation is definitely not always true. What makes his attitude more remarkable is the fact that he was brought up in abject poverty in a dysfunctional family. You'd think that could be a recipe for greed later in life.

His parents eked out a living growing rice. They lived in a hut with a thatched roof that leaked when it rained. His father was a soldier and was severely injured in a bomb blast. He spent months in hospital and unfortunately, became addicted to the medicine he was being prescribed.

After recovering, he no longer had access to the medicine so turned to methamphetamines. The result was catastrophic for the family as he became very violent and was unable to work. So the mother became the only breadwinner for her family of four children. The father died when my friend was nine years old.

He did not have a childhood; while his friends were out enjoying themselves he had to stay home and look after his siblings. There was no money for school - he only completed the first 3 years before having to go out an earn some money.

He was only nine when his father passed away. He found a job collecting tree bark up in the mountains. They worked him hard and paid him a pittance. So when he turned fifteen he left that job and started work at a cement factory. He had to carry 50 kg bags on his back. He's only a small guy and so found the work very demanding.

His next job was washing cars for 11 hours a day, again for very little money. He was exhausted.

His friend introduced him to a restaurant owner, who offered him a job washing dishes. He had to work thirteen hour shifts, often getting home in the early hours of the morning. He would then have to take care of his siblings.

When a friend told him about the money he was making in a gay gogo bar in Pattaya he decided he would give it a try.

He started at Happy Boys but was horrified when he saw the little "skirt" he was required to wear. And when a customer grabbed his cock he quickly knew this was not the job for him and decided to go back home. But his friend persuaded him to persevere - if you want to make really good money you have to try. So he stayed and eventually got used to it.

Now he works in a resort hotel and only comes to Pattaya when I'm in town. He'll go back after I leave.

When we got back to the hotel he looked up the Thai word for "generous." I explained to him that I didn't think I was being generous at all. If he weren't here I'd spend more than the cost of the shoes every single night in Pattaya, visiting bar after bar, tipping boy after boy, drinking Coke after Coke. Spending my holiday with him actually saves me money. Lots of money. All I am doing is spending some of that money on him instead.

I think he understood where I was coming from. But I'll happily accept the brownie points!

He has learnt well from the nightmare that he experienced growing up. He has become strong, independent and determined. He knows that there are no free meals in life - you have to work to get ahead. You cant just sit back and expect hand-outs.

Apart from a short period when he was swimming in the money he earned working at Kaos and blew it all partying with his friends and picking up the tab every night, he now saves every baht, much of which he sends home to mama each month. He hasn't gone out partying in all the years I've known him. Not being a drinker no doubt helps. He's been able to build mama a small house and buy himself a car.

I once joked that I thought I was in love with him. But it's not love I feel - it's total admiration and respect.

To my mind he's one in a million.

[Dimsumbear]

Gold diggers can be everywhere, in different forms and shapes etc. Of course in a gogo boy setting it is by default more prone to be one. There are exceptions, one in a million

[sglad]

In fact just on my last trip he was quite happily chatting away about various things and came out several times like lines like " oh you member when I work bar, I see this or do that" etc but at no point was he ashamed or showed any signs of regretting his choices ( and nor should he in my opinion.

I agree - he shouldn't be ashamed. He had to earn a living and chose a job he thought was best suited to his needs and circumstances at the time.

But I wonder if he would have been as forthright and casual about his past with a different audience. He knows you well; you are his former client and now friend. He knows you to be non-judgmental and is comfortable being honest with you. Moreover, you are a foreigner and therefore not a part of the Thai social heirarchy and value system. He knows you can't use his past against him.

With a Thai who is not his contemporary, your friend's attitude towards his past may well be different. He may not want to be ashamed of what he used to do for a living but a Thai in an adversarial position may use his past employment against him. To put him in his place, so to speak. They can be very mean and sarcastic if they choose to be.and there is a slew of pejoratives in the Thai language to label someone who is or was a sex worker. Past history as a sex worker may also be a barrier to professional and social mobility, depending on where you are headed. So my point is not to jump to broad conclusions about the acceptance and acceptability of sex work in Thai society (not saying that you are) based on an anecdotal experience.

[bazzabear]

May i say what a nice letter you have just written ,i also have known a guy in pattaya for nearly eleven years and much of what you say about this guy i can relate to. And must say you seem like a nice person yourself