retirement visas

[scottish-guy]

Goji - I think the issue (and I'm second guessing Francois here, so I hope he forgives me if I'm wrong) is exactly the process of "proving" the 65,000B minimum monthly income.

I'm speculating that people who are in this uncertain situation are wanting to know what "proof" is acceptable if (for example) the 65,000B minimum isn't paid directly into a Thai Bank account every month.

For example, suppose I was receiving a monthly UK pension which is paid into a UK Bank account and is easily the equivalent of 65,000B or more - but I only need 50,000B to live on in Thailand so that is what I have been transferring each month - or maybe what I require varies each month so the transfers are variable.

Technically, I have easily the required amount as income but I'm not bringing it all into Thailand so I then fall below the threshold.

Where do I stand then? Can I submit UK Bank statements showing more than 65,000B a month or are those irrelevant? Is it only what I transfer to my Thai Bank that's acceptable and if so then it looks like I'm up the creek without a paddle as I haven't been transferring 65,000B as neither the rules nor my circumstances required it.

There's no point starting to transfer 65,000B a month NOW because when I come to renew/extend my retirement visa/leave to stay then it will be what I've transferred in the last year that will be relevant, not what I'm starting to do now.

And maybe I don't have around £20K that I can shove into a Thai Bank account either. Maybe I didn't have a house to sell or maybe I'm renting it out. Maybe I'm living in Thailand entirely on a pension or other income and never thought I would suddenly need £20K to stick in a bank account to ensure my residency. Who could have predicted that?

I'm just giving that as an example, I'm not saying it's a real scenario for anybody - but it illustrates a potential difficulty, and the problem is there seems to be no advice whatsoever to ex-pats to help them comply. They seem to have been left high and dry by their Consular officials.

[kkjason]

Have you ever been to Bangeledash? I have - it is definitely not a place I would want to stay in when retired - particularly if I had money - I would get the hell out of dodge, with my money in tow, and live in Thailand in a heartbeat. Who gives a fuck if they looked down on me, because I would have the money to enjoy myself.

This doesn't make sense. Why would someone from a country with a much lower GDP per capita and cost of living (Bangladesh) choose to retire in a country with a much higher GDP per capita and cost of living (Thailand)? For the same amount of capital, the Bangladeshi retiree can have a much a higher quality of life in his own country where he is a first class citizen compared to being in Thailand where South Asians have traditionally been looked down upon. Isn't that why many farang choose to retire in Thailand - because they can have a much higher quality of life than they could in their home countries with the same amount of retirement capital?

Moreover, people from the poorer Asian countries with strong kinship values tend to remain at home upon retirement where they have access to family networks and support systems.

[sglad]

Have you ever been to Bangeledash? I have - it is definitely not a place I would want to stay in when retired - particularly if I had money - I would get the hell out of dodge, with my money in tow, and live in Thailand in a heartbeat. Who gives a fuck if they looked down on me, because I would have the money to enjoy myself.

This isn't about you or what you want. It's not cost effective for a Bangladeshi to move to Thailand; they would need twice the amount of money to have the same standard of living as they would have in their own country. You can do a cost of living comparison using one of the online tools available. And if they could afford to spend twice the amount of money, they can have a very good standard of living in their own country. Yes, I know what life in Bangladesh is like. But if you have the money you can live in a bubble, just like the farang living in Pattaya.

Moreover, the concept of moving away after retirement is quite alien in most Asian cultures. Most would rather live close to their families, friends and grandchildren. If they're religious, they'd want to spend more time in prayer and contemplation and getting more involved in church/temple/mosque activities. My parents bought a terrace house in JB some years ago and we sometimes spend our weekends there.They plan to spend longer periods there when they're retired but the reason they picked JB is because it's only a 45-minute drive away in good traffic and the cost of living in Malaysia is lower than in Singapore. We did have neighbours who moved to Melbourne, a city with a higher cost of living than Singapore. They were an elderly couple who had two kids who had migrated there after their studies and had become Australian citizens. The kids could bring in their parents under some exceptional PR scheme because the parents were old and had no other living relatives in Singapore.

[mr giggles]

800K upfront and 65K a month is a paltry sum for westerners.

How anybody of retirement age could not scrape that together is beyond me..

And if you can't , why would Thailand want an indigent individual like that?

IF you are that skint, you can always retire in Afghanistan or Syria.

[mr giggles]

Imagine ever having to depend on SGT members' empathy/generosity of spirit.

You'd be better to just go out on the balcony and toss yourself off.

I usually do toss myself off, my sex life has been rather scarce

[DragonMaster]

Goji - I think the issue (and I'm second guessing Francois here, so I hope he forgives me if I'm wrong) is exactly the process of "proving" the 65,000B minimum monthly income.

I'm speculating that people who are in this uncertain situation are wanting to know what "proof" is acceptable if (for example) the 65,000B minimum isn't paid directly into a Thai Bank account every month.

For example, suppose I was receiving a monthly UK pension which is paid into a UK Bank account and is easily the equivalent of 65,000B or more - but I only need 50,000B to live on in Thailand so that is what I have been transferring each month - or maybe what I require varies each month so the transfers are variable.

Technically, I have easily the required amount as income but I'm not bringing it all into Thailand so I then fall below the threshold.

Where do I stand then? Can I submit UK Bank statements showing more than 65,000B a month or are those irrelevant? Is it only what I transfer to my Thai Bank that's acceptable and if so then it looks like I'm up the creek without a paddle as I haven't been transferring 65,000B as neither the rules nor my circumstances required it.

There's no point starting to transfer 65,000B a month NOW because when I come to renew/extend my retirement visa/leave to stay then it will be what I've transferred in the last year that will be relevant, not what I'm starting to do now.

.

Here is a quote from the Thai embassy website in Washington D.C. I'm guessing the very same text is available to those of you in the U.K. It pretty clearly gives you the requirements to obtain an O-A visa to enter and live in Thailand. For those of you renewing your permission to stay, which is what you get after your original visa expires, the requirements do not change and haven't for the last 15 years.

6. Bank statement or evidence of adequate finance showing a deposit of the amount equal to and not less than 800,000 Baht or an income certificate (an original copy) with a monthly income of not less than 65,000 Baht, or a deposit account plus a monthly income totaling not less than 800,000 Baht In the case of submitting a bank statement, a letter of guarantee from the bank (an original copy) is required.

If you don't have the required 800,000 Baht in a Thai bank account, you can show monthly deposits plus an amount in savings that adds up to 800,000 Baht. Not that complicated.

If in Scottish-Guys example, if he only brings in 50,000 Baht/month, that's 600,000 Baht and 200,000 short of the requirement. That's roughly $6250.00 USD that you can put in a Thai bank account to make up the difference. Problem solved.

Now for the coming argument that I haven't been transferring 50,000 Baht a month for a year. Not a good reason either. If you get an initial O-A visa from your home country, you have at least one year to bring money monthly into the country, and if you are creative you can make that one year visa last for almost a full 2 years before you have to get a permission to stay extension. In that time, you should be able to comply with the Thai regulations.

This has nothing to do with empathy/generosity of spirit as SG has posted, it has to do with complying with Thai requirements which have not changed. I also don't understand why some posters feel that it is a requirement of any embassy to provide you with affidavits for certification of income. As one embassy official indicated, you can put down any figure you like and they will certify your letter, however if you lie about the content, you are guilty of a crime and can be prosecuted by your own country. At least this holds true for the U.S. Not that they would waste time doing it, but you are taking the chance.

Notice the last line in item 6 above. " a letter of guarantee from the bank (an original copy) is required."

When I got my current O-A visa in D.C., the consular officer chastised me for bringing a letter of guarantee from Bangkok Bank and said "Why didn't you bring a letter from your bank here in the U.S.?" The fact was I had 850,000 Baht at Bangkok Bank and have left it there for the last 15 years just for renewals, but could have done as she suggested.

The last remaining and probably the most important is what will immigration accept as a guaranteed letter from the bank. My bank in the U.S. will provide the letter at no charge other than postage. I would guess that this is not uncommon for other banks, as these letters are commonly needed for business purposes as well by customers.

[francois]

Aaaah that explains your posts. You know what they say, never drink on an empty stomach.

Wrong.

[Pattayamale]

I understand I am going off in a different direction in my reply. But it is the logic of the law that escapes me. I understand that the government wants a retiree to have 850,000 baht in a Thai bank or show 65,000 baht coming in each month.

But what puzzles me is that if that retiree is married to a Thai, they need only need 400,000 in a Thai bank.

Of course Thailand is free to set the rules it wants. But it is the logic I have a problem understanding. Here is another one.......

Investment visa 2014, 10 million baht
What’s more, the THB 10 million can be distributed across the three different investment types. It would, for example, be possible to purchase a pair of THB 4 million (USD 125,000) condominium units and deposit THB 2 million (USD 62,530) into a Thai bank account to hit the THB 10 million minimum investment requirement. Unlike the retirement visa, there are no age restrictions on the THB 10 million investment visa. And family members may also get a visa.

We probably know retirees that moved to Thailand planning to live out their lives here. They might have taken their savings and bought a couple condos, worth more than 10 million but since it was before 2014 it does not count

Those retirees came Robert Thailand with a fairly good nest egg. They never planned room return to their home country. They might have met a person they planned to live out their life with. Over 20 years they used part of that nest egg to buy a house for them to live in, the above mentioned condos, maybe some farm land for their partners future, even a proper house in the village for his family, a small business so the family could make some money for their own living expenses, and car for transportation.

Some may consider it reckless. But with a fairly good monthly pension, health insurance, high limit credit cards for emergency only, and reaching a respectable old age, there seemed no need to have 800,000 Thai baht to put in a Thai bank as it was never required before.
Like others that have posted, my pension is much higher than the amount needed as income.

So why the change? In my opinion, the number of people that may falsify their income is extremely small. I have not heard of any really rampant problems. The average income in BANGKOK for a person working in Bangkok is $800 a month. This means that even though some are making more, there are a large number making less.

And so again I wonder why would it be only 400,000 baht for the farang that married a Thai????

Note: I legally married my Thai male partner in the USA in 2016 (together now almost 20 years).....waiting for Thailand to recognize gay marriage

[kkjason]

You're right - ti's not about me - Your original question was why would someone from Bangledesh want to retire and move to Thailand. I was answering that. Unlike you - I HAVE BEEN to Bangledesh. Multiple times in fact. How can you you possibly know what life is like there, as you mention here, if you have never been there? That's like telling someone that you know exactly what spicy som tom with anchovies tastes like just by looking at it. Even for the wealthy in that country, there are few places that one can go to escape the sheer poverty that most of the country lives in. Electricity - even in the 'hi-so' suburbs goes out routinely - multiple times a week. The list goes on. This is why someone from that country - if they could afford it - would gladly come to a country such as Thailand to retire. It is not about reasons why YOU would not want to retire to Thailand - and it has nothing to do with some cost of living index. We haven't even touched up on the horrible weather that Bangledash has for 10-11 monhts out of the year. No matter how much money you have, you can't escape when mother natures decides to call your name. I am not even sure what your point is here. People get tired of their culture in many cases. They appreciate life in another country. Why is that so hard to understand?

This isn't about you or what you want. It's not cost effective for a Bangladeshi to move to Thailand; they would need twice the amount of money to have the same standard of living as they would have in their own country. You can do a cost of living comparison using one of the online tools available. And if they could afford to spend twice the amount of money, they can have a very good standard of living in their own country. Yes, I know what life in Bangladesh is like. But if you have the money you can live in a bubble, just like the farang living in Pattaya.

Moreover, the concept of moving away after retirement is quite alien in most Asian cultures. Most would rather live close to their families, friends and grandchildren. If they're religious, they'd want to spend more time in prayer and contemplation and getting more involved in church/temple/mosque activities. My parents bought a terrace house in JB some years ago and we sometimes spend our weekends there.They plan to spend longer periods there when they're retired but the reason they picked JB is because it's only a 45-minute drive away in good traffic and the cost of living in Malaysia is lower than in Singapore. We did have neighbours who moved to Melbourne, a city with a higher cost of living than Singapore. They were an elderly couple who had two kids who had migrated there after their studies and had become Australian citizens. The kids could bring in their parents under some exceptional PR scheme because the parents were old and had no other living relatives in Singapore.

[DoubleDutch]

I understand I am going off in a different direction in my reply. But it is the logic of the law that escapes me. I understand that the government wants a retiree to have 850,000 baht in a Thai bank or show 65,000 baht coming in each month.

But what puzzles me is that if that retiree is married to a Thai, they need only need 400,000 in a Thai bank.

Of course Thailand is free to set the rules it wants. But it is the logic I have a problem understanding. Here is another one.......

Basic mistake of a foreigner, searching logic here, where there isnt't any.

You are right, of course, a married person presumably needs higher income than a single man. But no lol, Thai law requires him to only show half of what single guy needs to prove. It is definition of retarded, but I guess that is why we love Thailand.