Thai policemen - always on duty or not ?

[scottish-guy]

... we shouldnt dislike the country that saved the world.

We can argue about who saved the world, but in the case of winning the war in Europe it was undoubtedly the UK (inc her colonies/former colonies) and Russia. The UK for holding out and providing a launching pad for the victory, and Russia for defeating Germany's invasion and pushing them back. There is no conceivable way that Germany could have been successful after their defeat in Russia.

That is not to belittle the immense contribution of the USA, which is all the more principled because they didn't have to do it and we must therefore always give credit and thanks, but the reality is that if the invasion leading to the defeat of Germany had not come from the West, it would have come from the East. Equally, without USA forces, there simply could not have been an invasion from the West.

Thereafter it's likely that most of Europe would have become Russian satellite states, and that's where LatintopXXX's argument about "saving the world" might have some truth.

[Marsilius]

...That is not to belittle the immense contribution of the USA, which is all the more principled because they didn't have to do it...

Er... oh, yes they did, I'm afraid. The USA didn't enter the war by choice but because war was declared on them (a) by Japan attacking at Pearl Harbor, and then (b) by Hitler declaring war on the USA (not the other way around). The USA may have been generally sympathetic to the anti-Axis cause before December 1941 but it was dragged into the conflict willy-nilly. It didn't enter the war on principle at that point but because they had no choice over whether to do so or not.

[scottish-guy]

Er... oh, yes they did, I'm afraid. The USA didn't enter the war by choice but because war was declared on them (a) by Japan attacking at Pearl Harbor, and then (b) by Hitler declaring war on the USA (not the other way around). The USA may have been generally sympathetic to the anti-Axis cause before December 1941 but it was dragged into the conflict willy-nilly. It didn't enter the war on principle at that point but because they had no choice over whether to do so or not.

My thoughts were that the USA could easily have chosen to engage only with Japan and the Pacific War, and left Germany and Italy to their own devices in Europe.

I can't think what possible threat Germany and Italy posed to USA with their declaration of war, which is why I'm suggesting USA didn't have to actively enter the war in Europe.

After entering the war, I'm aware that Roosevelt agreed that Europe would be the priority and again I would suggest he and the USA didn't have to make it so.

Anyhow - I feel guilty having this discussion on NIrish's thread so I'm gonna say no more.

[Nirish guy]

Anyhow - I feel guilty having this discussion on NIrish's thread so I'm gonna say no more.

Oh dont worry, just work away there, I gave up on this thread and expecting any sensible answers about same AGES ago !