lady boys

[nordicguy]

We can kid ourselves all we want - the percentage of Thai boys that we encounter who are involved in commercial sex and are genuinely sexually attracted to older farang can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Over 90% are doing it for the money - due to not having any, and the lack of either wit, opportunity or motivation to feed and house themselves any other way

Yes, you're right that the boys involved in commercial sex are driven purely by money. That'st the nature of commercial activities. A cashier in a supermarket would not be there if tit wasn't for the money, still some cashiers actually prefer that kind of work considering the alternatives. I konw I argue from a priviliged position in Nordic welfare state, and I have absolutely no right to sermonise the poor Thai boys that money and financial security is only a question of external comfort and about inner peace and happiness. My point is rather - back to AdDaRa's question - that western guys who have sex with Thai boys and support them financially is a win-win situation. It's money flowing directly in the pockets that need them the most (both the money paid to the Thai guys and indirectly through the local revenue that tourism creates in the Thai society.

It's up to the Thais how to develop their country economically. We shouldn't interfere or hope for one of the other thing - and we certainly should not feed bad about the current exchange of sex, culture, adventures, experience and money between farangs and Thai guys. I just hope the Thais don't sell their soul and culture in exchange of a high materialistic standard of living in the long run.

[a447]

Nordicguy, you make some interesting points.

However, I think your comments on Japan are incorrect. Namely:

When I travel in Japan....... I feel that the Asian boys there are also very attracted to white men even though there is no significant difference in income levels.

I disagree. I think their attraction is limited solely to those westerners of a similar age or younger. But by and large, Japanese prefer each others' company, not ours. Some interpret this as being racially motivated, but it isn't.

Are the Japanese feeling much better now that they have all the materialistic stuff they could ever desire? even toilets with heated seats.... No, not really.

I strongly disagree. I believe they are much happier than when they were struggling to make ends meet. Why wouldn't they be? To suggest otherwise doesn't make any sense. And BTW, they've had heated toilet seats for decades!

My point is that I actually do hope that Thailand remains Thailand and there is a risk of losing your soul and identity if you just follow the path of the western societies and Japan.

IMHO, Japan has definitely not lost its "soul and identity."

but I'm actually not sure that happiness and life satisfaction has to do with financial wealth.

I'm pretty sure it does. Or at least it helps. Ask a rich person if they'd rather have less money and see what answer you get. A strong attachment to their culture and traditions is also very important - maybe the most important.

[francois]

nordicguy, not to worry, for many years to come the poor will remain poor and the rich will remain rich in Thailand or likely, richer.

[nordicguy]

I disagree. I think their (the Japanes boy's) attraction is limited solely to those westerners of a similar age or younger. But by and large, Japanese prefer each others' company, not ours. Some interpret this as being racially motivated, but it isn't.

It sounds like you know wonderful Japan better than me. I base my view on Japan on personal anecdotes. I've only been to Japan a few times and only Tokyo. It was 4-5 years ago, so I was in my start-30s at that time also. I had some really nice sex with some rather cute but very shy Japanese boys around 20ish. They were quite easy to find and make arrangements with and I just had a feeling (maybe ONLY inside myself) that these Japanese boys I found were very much into white guys. I'm a tall, beefy (nicer word for chubby) and hairy kind of guy. I'm not in anyway anything special or superfit.

One of the boys was working in the hotel and was flirting with me from my arrival. But since I have not lived in the country, I really don't know how Japanese boys are in general.

[sglad]

IMHO, Japan has definitely not lost its "soul and identity."

Good post on Japan, a447. I gave you a like. It would seem from recent posts that some people seem to think that any population/group of people who do not cater or pander to the sexual needs of older white men have lost their "soul and identity". So much cultural claptrap being passed off as analyses.

Culture and identity are fluid concepts that evolve with the times and there's nothing wrong with that. You know it's funny how westerners often use, or should I say over use the "saving face" argument to explain aspects of Thai behaviour that they disapprove of when what I see here is a bunch of westerners who are desperately trying to save their own faces by attributing some cultural excuse or other to explain why certain Asian guys are not interested in them. So much angst and way too much rationalising. Look in the mirror - you don't turn them on. Accept it and move on.

[nordicguy]

It would seem from recent posts that some people seem to think that any population/group of people who do not cater or pander to the sexual needs of older white men have lost their "soul and identity". So much cultural claptrap being passed off as analyses. attributing some cultural excuse or other to explain why certain Asian guys are not interested in them. So much angst and way too much rationalising. Look in the mirror - you don't turn them on. Accept it and move on.

It's a messy thread now - several things are discussed at the same time.

When I look in the mirror, I see a real average-looking, hairy and slightly chubby 36 year old Caucasian bear. As a starting point, I really don't expect sexy slender Asian guys to be particularly interested in me, but my observation - these years - is that the chance for me to succeed in arranging a hot date with a typical smooth and slender Asian boy (regardles if he's living in Europe or US or in Asia) is much higher than with western Caucasian guys at the same age/body figure. White white boys, I have to be really lucky. There is probably an element of 'opposites attract' and exoticness in this game, but I don't know the reason. And in the SE Asian countries, the tendency is increase manifold.

When I wrote about losing 'soul and identiy' it was directly related to the discussion on how poverty and pay sex is linked together and in which direction the SE Asian countries are developing and what you should hope for, if anything - and that economical development sometimes leads to alienation and disintegration of traditional customs and culture - this comment on 'losing soul and identity' was not really about an alleged genuine sexual attraction between young Asian boys and horny older white men.

[AsDaRa]

this comment on 'losing soul and identity' was not really about an alleged genuine sexual attraction between young Asian boys and horny older white men.

Indeed, that is how I read your statement, as you intended it. Strange how others read meaning in sentences that isn't there.
You would say if I write down "I saw a cat", it would be strange if in the reply people are saying I had said I saw a dog.

I have this sometimes on forums. That I think: "these people read a text totally different than I do, how is that possible?".

I understand fully well what Nordicguy is saying and I tend to agree with him. I also think young Asian guys liking older white men is a more likely scenario, than young white guys liking these same older white men. No idea about percentages, I am sure the boys we meet in bars are in it for the money and dont really fancy a 50 year white male, but I would not be suprised if more Asian boys fancy a 50 year old white male, than white boys of the same age do. It will be a low percentage of course. Higher percentages if that older white man is younger.

[sglad]

You would say if I write down "I saw a cat", it would be strange if in the reply people are saying I had said I saw a dog.

Not strange at all. People see things the way they want to see them. A man may see himself as a cat even though everyone else clearly sees a dog. Ergo...

...I would not be suprised if more Asian boys fancy a 50 year old white male, than white boys of the same age do. It will be a low percentage of course. Higher percentages if that older white man is younger.

[scottish-guy]

... I would not be suprised if more Asian boys fancy a 50 year old white male, than white boys of the same age do...

That's the main reason why the average 50yo gay white male is in Thailand in the first place - sourcing what he can't get in his home country.

The other reason of course is that in Thailand "fancying" doesn't even have to come into - as long as the boy fancies your wallet you can ring-a-ding-ding from sunrise to sunset

[sglad]

The other reason of course is that in Thailand "fancying" doesn't even have to come into - as long as the boy fancies your wallet you can ring-a-ding-ding from sunrise to sunset...

...from May all the way to December.