WTF in Jomtien Complex

[paborn]

I don't see "sluttiness" as being anything to be ashamed of or even mentioned on a forum like this.

Men in general, and gays in particular, tend to be slutty by nature, whereas women are not. I'm sure it's got something to do with evolution. Make men perpetually horny so the species reproduces, but put a brake on it so that we don't over-populate.

Men, straight and gay, can be very promiscuous. An example are the saunas, which are strictly for men, not women, as their attitude to sex is different. The number of times we change partners just illustrates how slutty we are. But if you behave in a slutty way just once, then you've joined the group. Everything else is merely a matter of degree.

As for what others see as being decent, I couldn't care less. Just as they guys who I called "stupid" couldn't care less, either.

We are entitled to lead whatever lives we want, as long as we have mutual agreement as to what activities we propose to do, and no one gets hurt in the process.

One of the simplest, yet, cogent points made here. Remember the world that created "moral standards" and words like "slut" would be hateful to us even if we are monogamous longterm or vacationed with only one bar lad. The numbers really don't matter. I come to LOS once a year and sample the smorgasboard as much as possible. By the way, if we were all with just one lad a trip the bars would disappear.

[a447]

And in the heterosexual world, only women are ever referred to as "sluts."

Promiscuous men who have many female sexual partners are referred to as "studs."

Or just "lucky".

Hardly pejorative terms.

[bobsaigon2]

SG, I can’t figure out your mindset in this thread. For years you’ve been a very active habitué of a gay forum, which might indicate a certain tolerance for varied sexual inclinations, but in this thread your rules that a gay man must follow to be deemed ‘decent’ sound like something that might be expressed by a Deacon of the Church of Scotland. (BTW, if you’re interested, C of S diaconates are possible for men engaged in same sex relationships.)

Why use the demeaning “prostitute” instead of bar boy or similar? I think you and frequent are the only ones who use that term. Are you insinuating that you have never been ‘tainted’ by contact with MB’s and that the only Asian you’ve been intimate with is your Vietnamese partner (who, according to your standards, should not be more than 20 years your junior) and we are meant to understand that your relationship with him is completely monogamous?

….hiring a different prostitute every night over a period of decades….
Surely said just for effect. No one hires a different boy every night for years on end, especially not anyone in his mid-70’s.

Broadly speaking, …… if he's habitually and regularly paying to fuck or be fucked by a different random stranger every night….. then it's far from "decent" by the definition of the word.
What has his sex life, presumably carried out in private, got to do with being a decent individual? Among the farangs I’ve met in Thailand, some have been butterflies and some into LTR’s. But most seemed to be decent, caring individuals who in their home countries would not be met with any opprobrium.

I'm also suggesting that a mid-70's gay desperado who habitually and constantly behaves in such a slutty fashion……. is in no position to attempt to belittle others over the arrangements they choose to make with their long-term partners.
The last time I heard such belittlement was when latin was still posting. Some forum members have eschewed LTR’s but I don’t recall those members being critical of those who do have a partner.

You just seem not to approve of people over a certain age doing what younger men do in Thailand. Really not clear what you think is acceptable farang-money boy dynamics.

What would qualify as decent in most people’s opinion surely would need to be stated in terms of which people you are referencing. I’m sure you could get most farangs in Thailand to agree on what is decent behavior regarding interactions with Thai guys, but of course if the details were broadcast, that would not meet the decency standards of straight, mainstream society. Yes, there are certainly dissolute reprobates and raddled old queens who would not meet anyone’s decency standards, but they do not make up the majority of gay farang in Thailand.

Just a thought.

[arsenal]

"Just a thought." wrote Bob. A beautifully written and thoughtfully thought out thought if I may say.

[scottish-guy]

... Some forum members have eschewed LTR’s but I don’t recall those members being critical of those who do have a partner...

In that case your recall is dodgy to say the least:

Post #129 of this very thread:

Please don't expect less easily taken in farangs to play the delusion game with an old man who claims his 30 years his junior bit on the side is his 'boyfriend'. When the money stops the 'love' goes too. A fool and his money are easily parted and there is no fool like an.old fool.

What do you say now, Bob?

I await another beautifully written and perhaps more thought out thought.....

[paborn]

SG, I can’t figure out your mindset in this thread. For years you’ve been a very active habitué of a gay forum, which might indicate a certain tolerance for varied sexual inclinations, but in this thread your rules that a gay man must follow to be deemed ‘decent’ sound like something that might be expressed by a Deacon of the Church of Scotland. (BTW, if you’re interested, C of S diaconates are possible for men engaged in same sex relationships.)

Why use the demeaning “prostitute” instead of bar boy or similar? I think you and frequent are the only ones who use that term. Are you insinuating that you have never been ‘tainted’ by contact with MB’s and that the only Asian you’ve been intimate with is your Vietnamese partner (who, according to your standards, should not be more than 20 years your junior) and we are meant to understand that your relationship with him is completely monogamous?

….hiring a different prostitute every night over a period of decades….
Surely said just for effect. No one hires a different boy every night for years on end, especially not anyone in his mid-70’s.

Broadly speaking, …… if he's habitually and regularly paying to fuck or be fucked by a different random stranger every night….. then it's far from "decent" by the definition of the word.
What has his sex life, presumably carried out in private, got to do with being a decent individual? Among the farangs I’ve met in Thailand, some have been butterflies and some into LTR’s. But most seemed to be decent, caring individuals who in their home countries would not be met with any opprobrium.

I'm also suggesting that a mid-70's gay desperado who habitually and constantly behaves in such a slutty fashion……. is in no position to attempt to belittle others over the arrangements they choose to make with their long-term partners.
The last time I heard such belittlement was when latin was still posting. Some forum members have eschewed LTR’s but I don’t recall those members being critical of those who do have a partner.

You just seem not to approve of people over a certain age doing what younger men do in Thailand. Really not clear what you think is acceptable farang-money boy dynamics.

What would qualify as decent in most people’s opinion surely would need to be stated in terms of which people you are referencing. I’m sure you could get most farangs in Thailand to agree on what is decent behavior regarding interactions with Thai guys, but of course if the details were broadcast, that would not meet the decency standards of straight, mainstream society. Yes, there are certainly dissolute reprobates and raddled old queens who would not meet anyone’s decency standards, but they do not make up the majority of gay farang in Thailand.

Just a thought.

And a damn good and lucent thought.

[Brad the Impala]

I see "predatory" as implying that no compensation is on offer. It's a one way street.

But don't forget, these guys offer themselves to us in the bars and we gladly accept.

Also, the term has only negative connotations. There is nothing that any of us here do that is in any way negative, AFAIK.

It takes two to tango.

So I certainly don't see myself as a sexual predator in any shape or form. I'm not pouncing on, or trying to seduce, any younger guy. There is no seduction involved. They boys are there waiting for us.

And I can assure you that if I saw the forum as one promoting sexual predators, I wouldn't be here.

Oh, and if you are going by the strict dictionary definition, most males in the world should be looked upon as sexual predators.

I don't think so!

Of course you are a sexual predator, and a sex tourist. You may want to redefine the meaning of the word "predator" to fit your sensitivities, but language doesn't really work that way! You come to Thailand for the sole purpose of having sex with young men. The fact that it's mostly paid for in a brothel doesn't make you any less of a predator. If trying to get a young man in to the bushes in Burma, so that you could grope him, isn't the action of a predator, then I don't know what is!

However don't be so sensitive about it, most of us here think that this is entirely acceptable behaviour, even though we would be considered by society at large as predators and sex tourists. That isn't changed, and it doesn't become socially acceptable behavior, just because you give the objects of your desire some money! There are some who would say that it makes the behavior more reprehensible.

You are correct that some of the boys who ensnare gullible and foolish farang with dishonest expressions of love and undying affection, while surreptitiously emptying their wallet, are also predators.

That doesn't however mean that every situation in which a non resident farang partner sending money to a Thai partner is either gullible or foolish, nor necessarily believing themselves to be in love. It is just nice sometimes to help people with whom you have fun, when you have so much more than they do.

Surely we can all agree with that, or is it really just a race to the bottom(pun intended):

The question is, when the farang arrives in Thailand, does he get sex without paying for it while here, or does he still have to pay the boy money?
Going for meals, yes, I understand. But sex?

[scottish-guy]

I don't think Bob gets it. I'll try to spell it out

'I'm not a predator - I'm just a guy in my mid-70s who seeks out and habitually visits certain establishments knowing there will be boys a third or a quarter of my age whom I can pay to fuck for $20 because they need the money. I do that almost every night - a different one each time - and at the same time I feel justified in denigrating other people's long-term relationships'

Any clearer?

[a447]

Of course you are a sexual predator, and a sex tourist.

I'm the latter, not the former. Your dictionary definition has not kept up with the times. The meaning of words changes over time. These days the types of guys we hear about in the media who groom young people in chat rooms or sexually harass co-workers are referred to as "predators." Obviously, this is not consensual and the victims are not seeking that kind of unwanted attention.

That's the difference.

If we were to use your definition, then every guy at the beach who looks at a girl in a bikini, or guys who look at other guys would be deemed a "predator." That would constitute probably 100% of men at the beach! Are they all "predators?" Of course they are not. That's plain ridiculous. And yet they would fit the definition you quoted : "used to describe someone who expresses sexual interest in a very obvious way:"

If trying to get a young man into the bushes in Burma....

If it was consensual, it is not predatory behaviour at all. I mis-read the situation, thinking that's what he wanted. "Wanted" is the operative word here. If I had sought him out and tried to pressure him into having unwanted sex with me, then I would be a predator.

..and it doesn't become socially acceptable behaviour

Sex between consenting adults is socially acceptable. Paying for it is not.

just because you give the objects of your desire some money!

You ignore the fact that we, or at least our money, are also objects of desire. It's a two-way street.

That doesn't however mean that every situation in which a non resident farang partner sending money to a Thai partner is either gullible or foolish, nor necessarily believing themselves to be in love

I never said they were.

It is just nice sometimes to help people with whom you have fun, when you have so much more than they do

With that I agree wholeheartedly!

And SG, what's this thing you have about guys in their 70s?

Surely everybody has the right to have sex no matter how old they become. Apart from the age of consent, since when has sexual activity become age-specific? And why is the cut-off point mid-70? There's a Japanese porn star - Shigeo Tokuda - who is in his mid-80s yet still making movies. (God only knows who watches them!) Age is no barrier to having sex.

And surely there can be nothing wrong with having a new partner every night. I only wish I had the stamina to go out and find someone suitable every night.

[scottish-guy]

I don't have "a thing about guys in their 70s" - I have a thing about a particular member who has never denied being in his 70's making outrageously hypocritical and snide remarks about the long-term relationships of others whilst himself swirling around in a moral cesspit!

I guess you don't notice that or don't want to notice it?

Moving on to Brad's observations I'm afraid I have to support him.

The "guy at the beach looking at girls" is not a sexual predator unless he goes there specifically for that purpose. Once he does, he becomes a predator - just as gay guys going into certain establishments knowing that they will find boys they can pay for sex because they need the money, are sexual predators, and although you clearly don't want to identify with that, I think you'll find the vast majority of the general population would agree with my analysis.

That's not to say I disapprove (and I guess Brad doesn't either?) - but that's the unfortunate reality.