Visa Success At Last!

[scottish-guy]

Matt, thanks for input but just two things : you have stated twice that the UK "does not recognise same sex marriage" - it absolutely does - and irrespective of the legislative "level" at which marriage takes place (the honest answer is I don't know) the current issue is that his Visitor Visa specificially precludes it as well as work and study

The suggestion of using a third country to get married is one I will certainly look into.

The issue is going to be whether my BF can obtain a Visa/Schengen Visa for that "third" country (notoriously difficult for Vietnamese to gain lawful entry to anywhere outside of the Asean countries) and whether the conditions of that Visa and the laws of the particular country allow or preclude entering into either a CP or marriage.

A preliminary search suggests that Latvia and the Czech Republic are the easiest Schengen countries to obtain a visa from (99% approval apparently) - but I've yet to search their same-sex policies

[scottish-guy]

Ok it appears Latvia and CZ are out:

"As of October 2017, fifteen European countries legally recognise and perform same-sex marriage: Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Ireland, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Sweden and the United Kingdom. In Austria, marriages will be legal from 1 January 2019".

Out of those I don't know which ones would readily grant a Visa to a Vietnamese citizen. Denmark is mooted online as the easiest to get married in but the ease of obtaining the Visa is not stated and the list of documents required for a marriage is quite onerous

[bobsaigon2]

The rules in Ireland don't appear to be onerous and there doesn't seem to be any problem if the couple are both foreigners. But does that mean you BF would find it any easier to re-enter or settle permanently in Scotland? Then you're back to UK rules. Or you could just remain on the Emerald Isle.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en...g_married.html

[Nirish guy]

Alas as I’m sure SG knows only too well unfortunately Southern Ireland are part of the shenghen arrangement ( by choice) and so entry to there for his BF would be just as tough as entering the UK. Also as SG points out some ( most ?) Countries take a dim view of you using a tourist visa to get married whilst there - saying that that’s take a dim view BUT THEY CANT STOP YOU and the only risk is they perhaos slow down or refuse your next visa application, but if it’s just a country you are “using” for that purpose then that might not matter much anyway - worth looking into SG I think.

Also just for clarity I can confirm that MOST ( but not all) of the UK now allows equal marriage. England, Scotland and Eakes yes - but my very own Northern Ireland are still holding out due to the Ultra right wing evanegical Christian DUP ( bigots) who are in charge here ( even though just now they’re technically not but as they have the UKZ Government by the balls just now due to their lack of a majority in the main UK Parliament I can’t see that changing anytime soon or without court rulings ordering them to allow ( and that’s been tried and failed once already too :-( but we’re keeping up the fight here and as we say a lot here No Surrender !!!

[cdnmatt]

Matt, thanks for input but just two things : you have stated twice that the UK "does not recognise same sex marriage" - it absolutely does - and irrespective of the legislative "level" at which marriage takes place (the honest answer is I don't know) the current issue is that his Visitor Visa specificially precludes it as well as work and study

The suggestion of using a third country to get married is one I will certainly look into.

The issue is going to be whether my BF can obtain a Visa/Schengen Visa for that "third" country (notoriously difficult for Vietnamese to gain lawful entry to anywhere outside of the Asean countries) and whether the conditions of that Visa and the laws of the particular country allow or preclude entering into either a CP or marriage.

A preliminary search suggests that Latvia and the Czech Republic are the easiest Schengen countries to obtain a visa from (99% approval apparently) - but I've yet to search their same-sex policies

Ok, sorry, I'm not too well versed on UK law. Unsure if this helps any, but I've been through this process before, albeit in Canada. My first husband was Hungarian, and we successfully got him PR status to Canada. If it helps any....

- It took about 18 months and $8000. I think the application fee itself was only about $700, but he had a high-end immigration lawyer help us. We had meetings with 5 different lawyers, and picked the one we liked.

- We got married in Canada while he was an illegal immigrant. He came in under a 6 month visitor VISA, and stayed for 5 years. Again, marriages in Canada are under the provincial governments, so federal government and immigration have absolutely nothing to do with them. Maybe the UK is different.

- This is actually one of the main reasons we moved to Budapest. If you apply from outside of Canada and get rejected, you have the right to one appeal. Apply from inside Canada and get rejected though, you have no right to appeal, and simply get your deportation notice.

- The first round of documentation was about 3 inches thick, and took about 6 weeks to put together. They want everything -- financials, bank statements, lease / house title if you own, cover letters from each of you explaining the relationship, letters from family and friends on both sides verifying the relationship, tax returns, joint bank account statements, timestamped photos of you together, things like birthday cards from family / friends, business registration if you own a business, travel itineries of any trips you took together, criminal background checks from all countries you ever resided in, etc.

- I had to modify my cover letter, because it mentioned that we got married on advice from the lawyer. She said that was a really bad idea, as the government doesn't take kindly to people who only get married for PR status I guess.

- During the application process, we submitted two more rounds of documentation, each about 1 inch thick. Just photos of us together in Europe, proof of residence, more letters from family, extra photos ad birthday / Christmas cards, etc.

- After 18 months, he got a letter from the Canada embassy saying he's approved. He went to the embassy in Vienna and have his PR status affixed to his passport. Upon entry to Canada, he got his PR card, and all necessary forms to get a SIN# for work, health care, etc.

- You'll have to check UK law, but the one reason I highly doubt we'll ever apply to get Leo PR status is because under Canadian law, you need to reside in Canada for 2 out of every 5 years in order to retain PR status. If you don't, they revoke your status.

- I had to sign that I would take care of him for 10 years. If he conducted any criminal activity, went on welfare, or anything of nat nature, then I was held liable for him.

Obviously, best to consult an immigration lawyer, but I would imagine the process is somewhat similar in Canada and the UK.

[goji]

Ok it appears Latvia and CZ are out:

"As of October 2017, fifteen European countries legally recognise and perform same-sex marriage: Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Ireland, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Sweden and the United Kingdom. In Austria, marriages will be legal from 1 January 2019".

Out of those I don't know which ones would readily grant a Visa to a Vietnamese citizen. Denmark is mooted online as the easiest to get married in but the ease of obtaining the Visa is not stated and the list of documents required for a marriage is quite onerous

The whole idea of the Shengen zone is once you have a visa for one Shengen country, you can use it to legally enter all of them. A necessary step, since they don't have any border controls either.

So I think you need to:

1 Figure out which country grants a Shengen visa most easily.
2 Decide which Shengen country to get married in, quite separately.
3 I imaging marriage in one EU country has to be recognized in another, as anything else goes against the whole ethos of the organization.

Of course, please check my logic is right on points 2 & 3.

[Brad the Impala]

Well the Study Visa/Student Visitor Visa was a route we tried 5 years ago and it was refused.

We did not find the process anywhere near as easy as your Chinese friend and (please take this in the spirit it's intended) there are a number of serious omissions in the story as it has been told to you:

1. You need to PROVE you have a shitload of money which will sustain your living expenses throughout the duration of your Course. At the time we tried it was a minimum of £800 per month - so for a one year course you'd need to have (and demonstrate you had) "recourse to funds" of £9600 in an established bank account in your name for at least the last 6 months

2. The only way around that (if you're unable or unprepared to deposit 10,000 knicker in your BFs bank account for 6 months) is to claim that YOU will underwrite that sum of money and then the onus falls on YOU not only to PROVE you have "recourse to funds" but (and here's the bitch) PROVE you will give those funds to him. Quite how you are supposed to PROVE what you will do in the future remains a mystery and that was the excuse they used to refuse the Visa - that they "were not satisfied" that although I had deposited said funds in a dedicated UK Bank Account and had certification to prove it, that I would actually make those funds available to him if and when he arrived.

3. As the "sponsor" you then have to submit yourself to intense scrutiny - this involves providing the title deeds to your property, your bank statements, your birth certificate, even the logbook of your car!! All of which must of course be notarised by a solicitor at your own (considerable) expense.

It may be difficult, but it is achievable. Enjoy this current visit. When BF goes back home enrol him on a course, English Language is fine, apply for a student visa from Vietnam. Supply all the paperwork, despite the hassles and the guarantees required. When course runs out extend the course, or find another one. After a while you can demonstrate that you have been living together, so he goes back to Vietnam and applies for a marriage visa.

It's a question of how much is it worth to you both to be together. It's a shitload of hassle and it isn't cheap, but with perseverance it can be done and without a lawyer. I've done this twice, with variations the second time. I know friends who have also brought their boyfriends here and are now British Citizens.

I think that I gave you this link before http://https://uklgig.org.uk, the forums are a particularly good source of information.

Another useful source is here. http://www.immigrationboards.com/gen...gration-forum/

Good luck.

[Nirish guy]

I think Brad has nailed it in his above post and that to me also would seem the most logical way to go and the one with the best chance of success perhaps.

Just for clarification I said in a post above that Southern Ireland are part of the Shenghen agreement, I meant of course as I continued to explain in my post) that they AREN’T ! Typo. Apologies for any confusion.

[scottish-guy]

I agree that Brad's plan appears workable - I only re-iterate that we have already been down that onerous route without success because at the end of the day the Home Office just turned round and said "we are not convinced that you will make the maintenance funds you have set aside (in a separate account) available to the applicant".

Bear in mind the impossibility of proving something you will do in the future and the fact that whatever objection the Home Office comes up with you have absolutely no right of appeal or even to an explanation of how they arrive at their conclusions

[goji]

Brad's advice looks good. Using other forums to learn what other people have done is always a good idea.
A bit of research on my idea of getting married in the Shengen zone could be worth it too (~14 months to go).

As it happens, the Thai masseur I've occasionally visited over the last couple of years was in the UK to "study English", with the visa having been arranged by his boyfriend. I gather he successfully had the visa renewed, however the Thai lad went home for a holiday & seems in no hurry to return.

Over the years, I've also visited several Thai masseurs in Berlin & every single one of them came over to live with a boyfriend several years earlier (& no longer lives with the bf). So it has been done in Germany.

Not advising anyone else here, but in the unlikely event that I were ever to do that, a pre-nup would be in place. Incidentally, a friend of mine was advised by his divorce lawyer to have a pre-cohab agreement in place before moving his prospective partner in. Whether that is good advice, or to generate more legal feees, I have no idea.