More European parochialism.

[scottish-guy]

You are (as usual) factually wrong - under Scots law sovereignty lies with the people. This was established in the Claim of Right Act of 1689 and reaffirmed in 1998 by the leaders of every political party in Scotland.

We are in a voluntary Union and either party can leave at any time.

Nobody is proposing or has proposed a second referendum in 2017 - so your crap about "every three years" is precisely that and you're making it up as you go along.

Moderators and Head Judges should be seen and not heard

[latintopxxx]

why dont u just leave then...for goodness sake...nobody care about the damp northern half of England ..ooops scotland...anyway...its a economically depressed crime/drug ridden wasteland where the best and brightest have decamped south.

[arsenal]

The Act of Union supersedes anything from 1689 and "reafirmation" by anyone does not change that. It's called rule of law, have you heard of it?

[latintopxxx]

ofcourse not...he's too bust gorging himself on the subsidies that the muppets (sorry english) throw across the border

[arsenal]

It can be very difficult to translate films but this one seems to have captured the very essence of the intended audience.

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...s&pbjreload=10

[scottish-guy]

Good to see you both teaming up to attack me.

Birds of a feather .........

[joe552]

I ain't no expert, but have a personal view, which leans toward the right of self-determination for people who want to "opt out" out the State in which they live. From what I read, the majority of those who voted, want to secede from Spain and become a Republic. But that's the majority of those who voted - I've read only 47% of the population actually voted. I'm open to correction on any of this - these are just my impressions.

So, while the majority of those who actually voted want to leave, the fact that the majority of the electorate DID NOT vote. Which for me, asks the question, do we actually know what the people of Catalunya actually think? I'm not sure I do.

I'm totally open to learning on this one.

[scottish-guy]

A 47% turnout while rubber bullets are being fired at voters, while Police in riot gear bludgeon old women, while voters are dragged along the ground by the hair, while polling stations are forcibly closed and ballot boxes seized is, I'd suggest pretty good in the circumstances.

Nobody forced the Unionists to stay at home (if indeed they did) - equally there's no proof that the result would have been NO had they participated.

You say the majority did not vote and of course you're right - but there was never going to be a 100% turnout even if the Spanish Govt had approved the vote (which they were never going to) so the real question is what turnout would have to have been achieved to overturn what has been widely reported at a 90% YES vote if every one of those extra votes had been NO?

I'm far from a mathematician - but I read somewhere that around another 40% of the electorate would have to have turned out (possible) and every one of them to have voted NO (impossible) in order to change the result. I'm sure someone on this forum can work it out.

But the real issue here is not about YES or NO - it's about people having the right to vote, it's about self-determination which has supposedly been a bedrock principle of democracy since US President Woodrow Wilson championed it at Versailles in 1919.

Shamefully, the EU and her members have chosen to look the other way - as has the UN.

Today, we know Unionists have been bussed into Barcelona from Madrid to fake a rally in support of unity - so who knows how this will end

[joe552]

I totally take your point, SG. The fact remains, as I see it (and this might seem to contradict what I said earlier, but SG's post swayed me) the people of Catalunya have expressed their wishes, and the government of Spain appears to be ignoring that democratic process. That surely can't be right. And for the PM to simply say "we'll ignore this" is hardly democracy?

Did I read somewhere that the majority of people who live in Catalunya are not actually Catalan?

[arsenal]

I hear that Cornwall, a place that has it's own language wants to leave The UK and under Scottishs' ideas they should certainly be allowed to do so any time they choose. Referendum on Monday and independent country by Wednesday. Simple? Yes! Cue Scottish hurling insults because that's easier than defending his position.