EMIRATES now charging for SEATS

[MiniMee]

I think what this discussion is showing is that Emirates are not being as transparent as they could be on their own website and their seat reservation fees are not being flagged up before booking on the comparison sites which millions use.Emirates have all my personal details via Skywards and they took no action to flag up these changes in October - i.e. no email. I think that tells us something - that they hid it?

That's not really true. You used a booking site to make your reservation, which did not alert you to the seat reservation surcharge. Whereas Emirates own website makes it perfectly clear. When you choose a fare for your selected itinerary, the key conditions are displayed, including the fact that complimentary seat reservation is restricted to silver/gold card members and families etc. Why would you expect Emirates to inform you of their new policy? No airline is interested in the 'loyalty' of a passenger who only books their cheapest seats once or twice a year. They are all only interested in retaining the loyalty of customers who book premium fares perhaps every month and all loyalty card programmers are geared towards rewarding only those frequent flyers.

[fountainhall]

When American Airlines became the first major carrier to start a frequent flyer programme in 1981, it didn't matter much in which class you were travelling or what fare you paid, as long you travelled with AA and not one of the others. It was just a bums on seats gimmick. Over the decades the other airlines which followed adopted variations but the basic principle remained the same - fly me and then fly free.

Surprisingly it took the airlines a long time to realise there were ways to virtually beat the system. Several websites sprang up to give info on special fares to help accumulate a ton of miles pretty cheaply. It might mean lengthy round trips to nowhere over 24 hours but it created a large number of million milers who paid - frankly - precious little for those mileage runs which could then be spent on a first class international ticket costing $10,000.

When the days of fuel at $140 per gallon arrived compared to $35 in 1981, something had to give - and it did. The models now being adopted reward those who pay more with more freebies (although if you bother to cost them out, in most cases you are still paying more and getting less than before) and often none to those who pay the least. As MiniMee points out, airlines want loyalty from the big bucks spenders and have almost no interest in the average Joe on his once a year holiday. So gerefan2 is also right. If you're an occasional flyer, just go for the best deal on an airline which gives you a degree of comfort and reliability. Loyalty cards are great if it's your company/sugar daddy paying for them - or you are rich.

[fedssocr]

The airline business is constantly evolving and changing. Once the big airlines realized they could start charging a fee for everything they used to provide as part of the fare, of course they started thinking of new things to charge a fee for. Almost all of the majors are "unbundling" now. So, you pay a low fare then add on fees for everything if you want or need it. But the online travel agencies really need to catch up with what's going on so they can alert their customers with regard to applicable fees for things like checked bags, seat selection, etc. Governments have been reluctant to get very involved but there is still a lack of transparency about this stuff.

I've been lucky to be able to use miles to fly up front for most of my travels over the last several years and seat selection is just one of the perks. But I recognize that those who are outside the USA aren't able to accumulate miles and points as easily.

[fountainhall]

I've been lucky to be able to use miles to fly up front for most of my travels over the last several years and seat selection is just one of the perks. But I recognize that those who are outside the USA aren't able to accumulate miles and points as easily.

fedssocr - a question. I've had the good fortune to have had biz class travel from the companies I worked for virtually since biz class started. I have many times used miles for free tickets in all classes and for upgrades.

Now that I have much less business travel and have to pay for a majority of my own tickets, I started making comparisons of how valuable miles really are in terms of what I had to spend for them. We all know that the number of economy fare classes available for upgrades have been massively reduced. In 2007 I paid Bt. 37,000 for an upgradeable to biz class ticket BKK/JFK on CX. 3 years later I would have had to pay Bt. 68,000 for the same type of ticket. Now it's about the same but only to upgrade to Premium Economy!

I used to get quite a lot of miles from credit card spending, but after the financial crisis all my cards increased the charges for use overseas where a lot of my spending took place. Most charges doubled. This meant I started losing out rather than gaining in terms of miles accrued. So gaining miles through credit cards for me is a waste. Is the same true of cards issued in the USA? I know many have great signing on bonuses of between 50,000 and 100,000 miles provided you charge a small amount of spending to the card in the first 3 months. I have found no similar promotions in Asia. But in terms of general use, do your credit card miles really represent good value now?

[arsenal]

My advice for what it's worth. Chuck your loyalty cards and bonus points away. Every time you fly price check for a few weeks and sooner or later a good deal will appear.....price check a lot as often these deals only come up for a few hours. Also bear in mind that over the next few years the big Chinese airlines are going to run on more and more routes all across the world and typically they will undercut the competition, at least to begin with.

[Old git]

Well, I wanted to use up a few airmiles (125,000 to be precise) and wanted to fly on New year's day. Having left the booking a little bit late for an 'award' trip (mid Oct) the only flight I could get going out (in Biz) was with Turkish, changing at Istanbul, although it adds little to the journey time.

Cabins look a bit austere (in the 777) but no extra charge for seat selection. The planes used on this route seem to be at the younger end of their fleet and the timekeeping seems pretty good.

Wonder what the service will be like? - will an Islamic national carrier have enough alcohol on board to get me off to sleep...??

[Brad the Impala]

Turkish are fine. In fact Skytrax rated them this year as the best European airline.

Check here. http://www.airlinequality.com/rating...s-star-rating/

[christianpfc]

When I read the headline, I thought you will have to stand* for the duration of the flight unless you pay for a seat. (Compare trains in Thailand or Germany, and buses in Thailand: unless a seat is specified, you pay for being transported from A to B, which can be seated or standing.)

But paying to CHOOSE your seat? YAWN! I vaguely remember I had this option when I flew low-cost airlines in South-East Asia, but thanks, I take any seat.

*Even that was in the news some time ago. And charging to use the toilet on an airplane was discussed as well.

[fedssocr]

fedssocr - a question. I've had the good fortune to have had biz class travel from the companies I worked for virtually since biz class started. I have many times used miles for free tickets in all classes and for upgrades.

Now that I have much less business travel and have to pay for a majority of my own tickets, I started making comparisons of how valuable miles really are in terms of what I had to spend for them. We all know that the number of economy fare classes available for upgrades have been massively reduced. In 2007 I paid Bt. 37,000 for an upgradeable to biz class ticket BKK/JFK on CX. 3 years later I would have had to pay Bt. 68,000 for the same type of ticket. Now it's about the same but only to upgrade to Premium Economy!

I used to get quite a lot of miles from credit card spending, but after the financial crisis all my cards increased the charges for use overseas where a lot of my spending took place. Most charges doubled. This meant I started losing out rather than gaining in terms of miles accrued. So gaining miles through credit cards for me is a waste. Is the same true of cards issued in the USA? I know many have great signing on bonuses of between 50,000 and 100,000 miles provided you charge a small amount of spending to the card in the first 3 months. I have found no similar promotions in Asia. But in terms of general use, do your credit card miles really represent good value now?

Pretty much all of my miles and points are thanks to credit card bonuses and spend. Most of the big players (Chase, AMex, CITI) now have cards with no foreign transaction fees. They're always introducing new products, so new bonuses. And several airlines are happy to sell you miles at a discount which can work out very favorably. The new Chase Sapphire Reserve card has a 100K Chase Ultimate Rewards points bonus after you spend a certain amount... It has a high annual fee ($450), but that's offset by a $300 travel credit (travel spending is rebated directly to you until you get to $300) so the fee ends up being $150. You get bonus points for things like dining and travel spending. And if you shop online much there are lucrative bonus points at various retailers.

It helps that I only take a couple of trips per year, so I have time to accumulate before I need to spend miles. I'll be taking my last Cathay Pacific business class trip in March thanks to American Airlines miles. They devalued their miles greatly earlier this year. Avianca is always running miles sales, including their current offer. If you redeem them well you can fly first class on very long flights for a fraction of what paying cash for the ticket would cost. Still not exactly cheap but $2400 for a first class round trip from DC to SE Asia is a good value to me.

[destiny]

Well, I wanted to use up a few airmiles (125,000 to be precise) and wanted to fly on New year's day. Having left the booking a little bit late for an 'award' trip (mid Oct) the only flight I could get going out (in Biz) was with Turkish, changing at Istanbul, although it adds little to the journey time.

Cabins look a bit austere (in the 777) but no extra charge for seat selection. The planes used on this route seem to be at the younger end of their fleet and the timekeeping seems pretty good.

Wonder what the service will be like? - will an Islamic national carrier have enough alcohol on board to get me off to sleep...??

Indeed Turkish are actually quite good. Plus they are almost the only European Airline apart from Aeroflot (which is great in C-class too as well as in Premium economy) that offers proper business class seats on short haul flights within Europe.
From what I know, their surcharges are moderate compared to the likes of BA or LH, so I intend to spend my remaining Star-Alliance miles on a C-Class flight with TK as they service the non-hub airport of my home town. Yes there will be alcoholic drinks too, no worries.