Apartheid/Separate but equal.

[arsenal]

I'm in the mood for a rumbustious controversial topic so I'm going to start one. Separate but equal (the system deployed in the US until the 60s required not only acts by the Supreme Court but a virtual mini civil war (and the national guard) to get rid of and Apartheid only ended in the early 90s with the release of Nelson Mandela.

Well, they're coming back, in fact keep it quiet but they're already here. I'm talking about the Chinese. It was actually the thread on GB about restaurant peeves that got me thinking about this.
http://gaybuttonthai.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7888

Unless you have experienced their behaviour in full flow and totally undiluted then you're not qualified to fully appreciate how awful they truly are. All of the peeves mentioned in the thread (at the time of my writing this) are taken to the ultimate level when they go to a restaurant. Think six grown women screaming at the selection of cheesecake in a coffee shop, think a barely able to stand drunk bellowing into a microphone while you're trying to eat a bacon burger. And that's Chinese behaviour lite. I'm still in first gear but I can go to cruise control if necessary.

The hotel where I stay puts any Chinese tourists on separate floors from everyone else because they simply have no concept of noise and will happily have a loud conversation right outside your door. Indeed many of them speak considerably louder than the average person can shout and a few have voices that literally vibrate through you. Almost a weapon. Oh yes and they have taken away the chairs from the rooms they stay in because the Chinese used them for......and the kettles too because they want to eat instant noodles and stink the place out.

On a physical note (and this is not their fault but it is a fact) Chinese womens' hair is so thick that it falls out constantly and that's why nearly all public swimming pools insist on wearing bathing caps. So when going to the water parks will you go on the Chinese day when bathing caps must be worn or do you wait until it's a non-Chinese day when it's not necessary?

So my point is that businesses will start to keep them away from everyone else as much as possible and perhaps at some point in the future there will be hotels/restaurants for Chinese only and those that do not accept Chinese guests. And then YOU dear member are going to have the moral dilemma of your fucking life. Do you refuse to patronise an establishment that has a policy that we all abhor. In which case you will have to put up with them. Or do you put your dearly held principles (perhaps you marched, boycotted etc) on hold so that you can relax, enjoy your trip and not feel like you are in a human zoo. This is something you are going to have to face so you might like to start thinking about it now.

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[AsDaRa]

I have not much experience with Chinese tourists, but if the above is true of the huge majority of them then I would go to non-Chinese facilities only.

Concerning noise: I do have issues with that on many trips. People in front of your hotel room talking loud around say 2 am. They can be of any ethnicity. Some people just lack decency. Lack the ability to think about others, like about guests now sleeping.

Same with people on these escalators (I mean these rolling stairs) who block entry for people who want to walk down. If you want to stand still on such an escalator stand right. Keep left side free for people who want to walk down. Some people just don't think about it. Their mind is not wired to take others into account. Like people who start chatting with woman on counter of supermarket while a whole queue is behind them. I try to be as fast as possible. Etc etc.

Sadly many people are not wired to be descent.

[fountainhall]

I know what arsenal means, even though, talking at the tops of their very loud voices apart, I have been insulated from the worst of the behaviour by being based in Hong Kong rather than the mainland before moving to Bangkok. Also, on many visits to various parts of mainland China - and not just the centres of the main cities - I have rarely seen anything as bad as arsenal describes (but I have no doubt what arsenal describes is correct). Visiting one of the most popular National Parks at Jiuzhaigou the worst of the behaviour seemed to be a total lack of any understanding of queuing. But then I saw that so many times at Suvarnabhumi when invading Russians always jumped queues. I am well aware that people in Hong Kong are getting sick and tired with the behaviour of many mainland tourists. They are trying to get the number of tour groups reduced, even though they are very happy to take the money they spend!

I wonder where arsenal lives in China and why, given his obvious continuing aversion to local habits, he has stayed there for so many years? I've lived in three Asian countries and was lucky to enjoy each, despite occasional dislikes. I have a friend who has spent quite a few years teaching at schools in three cities in central China. He is perfectly happy there and has had a long-term boyfriend from one of the big coastal cities for more than 6 years. He has never once complained about any of the local conditions

On the matter of a sort of cultural apartheid, I suspect that deep down many of us feel more or less the same way about certain other nationalities or ethnic groups. I know that I will not take certain airlines because I would prefer to be with a more mixed group of passengers. There are also some countries I just will not visit. But then I wonder - is a hotel having floors for Chinese and floors for non-Chinese actually an example of "apartheid"? If the owner of a hotel has decided to do that for business reasons, that to me is not the same as a politically enforced separation applicable everywhere and backed by law.

[christianpfc]

I encounter tourists that look Chinese and speak a language that sounds like Chinese to me in the streets of Bangkok and in public transport. So far, I can't say anything bad about them. But I haven't been in a restaurant or hotel with them.

[arsenal]

Fountainhall: Fair question. Well I have business interests here and financially it is the right place to be at the moment. To succeed in business in China all you have to do is offer them something that we, in the west have and like. They will buy it. I was very vary careful when I wrote the piece to only include absolute facts. I am also sure you are aware that the government has produced a (thickish) booklet telling Chinese tourists abroad how to behave.

In the interests of balance I will also add that there is nothing malicious about the Chinese, their behaviour is disgusting and horrible, but they, as people are not. Not only that but in terms of safety and lack of crime China is as good as it gets.

[Oliver]

Three or four years ago it was the Russians; now it's the Chinese.
What they have in common is that many of the groups consisted (or consist) of first time tourists, beneficiaries of the economic up-turns in their respective countries. Some of the Russians I saw in Central, for example, had little idea how to deal with Thais, often looming over them and making the women particularly uncomfortable. My suspicion is that many of the Chinese have not been abroad before and like the British package toruists of the 70s when that industry "took off" have yet to learn how to conduct themselves in a foreign country. Come to think of it, some of my countrymen still don't how to believe in the places like Soi 6.
The Chinese tourists I see here in London- a much more expensive trip- are seasoned travellers and present no such problems as far as I can see. They happily spend vast amounts in Harrods and Fortnum & Mason's and behave just like any other rich tourists.
In Chiang Mai, on the other hand, much closer to home and therefore much cheaper for the Chinese visitor, the conduct of one guide and his group in a temple my boyfriend and I were in last January was astonishingly ignorant and insulting to Thais. Less significant-perhaps even slightly amusing- our hotel in Bali a few months ago was used as an overnight stop-off for Chinese groups and the noise at breakfast (they'd left by dinner) was astonishingly noisy.
Its 'possible that these problems- and I've heard more complaints from Chiang Mai than Pattaya- will lessen as the visitors become more experienced in foreign travel. Not that this has improved the behaviour of some of my countrymen when confronted by cheap women and cheap booze.

[arsenal]

China had two bloody revolutions in under 50 years, were occupied by the Japanese and then got Mao and his communist madness including several famines and the horrors of the cultural revolution. Then they went from bicycles to BMWs in 20 years so it's not surprising that as a nation they're quite unhinged. However that doesn't make their behaviour any easier to deal with.

[Nirish guy]

For the sake of transparency and openess and honesty I fell I must declare with regard to escalators - bollox to the people who want to walk down them, I don't and won't "stand to the right".

It's a fucking escalator, taking approximately 15 seconds to descend if someone's THAT busy or late in their lives that they feel they have the right to try and shove past me, invading my personal space on a 3 foot wide escalator then they should have gotten out of their beds 5 minutes earlier that day.

And I don't think I have ever witnessed someone ACTUALLY missing their tube train because of this, no, it's more usually a case of some self important prick who's pushed and shoved their way right past 30 other people, causing drama all all round them as they are SO busy and important that everyone must "move to the right" for them, only for us all to end up standing on the same train anyway ! Or the only result is them getting a seat where the other people quietly "queuing" on the escalator are left to stand.

It should be noted that London Underground are now running "no standing to the right" days on certain lines as they've realised and tests have been carried out showing that there's absolutely no time benefit to be gained from this practice and in fact they've established that it may in fact slow the movement of the larger number of passengers down just to suit that one person. So no, mind the gap I will do, but move to the right, na, you can just wait the the extra 5 seconds you think it'll save you, the wait won't kill you :-)

[cdnmatt]

Geez NIrsh, pretty strong feelings about escalators.

When driving down the highway, do you also sit in the fast lane going 30km/h?

[Moses]

It's a fucking escalator, taking approximately 15 seconds to descend if someone's THAT busy or late in their lives that they feel they have the right to try and shove past me, invading my personal space on a 3 foot wide escalator then they should have gotten out of their beds 5 minutes earlier that day.

And I don't think I have ever witnessed someone ACTUALLY missing their tube train because of this, no, it's more usually a case of some self important prick who's pushed and shoved their way right past 30 other people, causing drama all all round them as they are SO busy and important that everyone must "move to the right" for them, only for us all to end up standing on the same train anyway ! Or the only result is them getting a seat where the other people quietly "queuing" on the escalator are left to stand.

It should be noted that London Underground are now running "no standing to the right" days on certain lines as they've realised and tests have been carried out showing that there's absolutely no time benefit to be gained from this practice and in fact they've established that it may in fact slow the movement of the larger number of passengers down just to suit that one person. So no, mind the gap I will do, but move to the right, na, you can just wait the the extra 5 seconds you think it'll save you, the wait won't kill you :-)

In some busy metro system is obligatory to walk by escalator. For example: here in Moscow you can stay only at right side and must walk at left side of escalator. If you stay at right side then you must to leave clear left side of escalator for walkers. I suppose the same is in China. So they just do what they think is normal.