Brexit

[arsenal]

We (the UK) don't have to rush into anything. Regardless of the bleating of our European 'partners' there is nothing they can do to make us trigger article 50 any earlier than we choose to. That's if it is actually triggered at all.

But the facts remain, Scotland is a part of the UK and despite the powers granted to the Scottish Assembly total and absolute sovereignty remains with the UK parliament. Also, the Scottish people knew this referendum was going to happen before your vote on independence and still chose to remain despite the possibility of a leave vote.

[fountainhall]

Clearly facts don't always fit in with comments made in posts in this forum. The Scottish people could not have known there would be an EU referendum BEFORE their vote on independence. Why? The independence referendum was held in September 2014. Absolutely no-one in the UK had any clue who would win the May 2015 UK election. Indeed, the Conservative Party's win with a majority surprised virtually all the pollsters and all the political commentators who were predicting a hung parliament. In that event, an EU referendum might well not have been held.

[Faranglaw]

Well, different people have different ways of making their point - but if you're bemoaning a lack of robustness, try this:

And here's one you might enjoy.

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/06/28...-trump-insults

[gedykaie]

personally I would like to have stayed in but its two years down the line all those speculators downing the markets and the pound are making life a misery for many,and making my and others well earned holidays more expensive,as for my first minister messrs sturgeon and co I think she should wait and see if any other nations want a vote to follow,heard the dutch are next favourite to leave

[scottish-guy]

With the greatest of respect I don't think you've entirely grasped the situation or the reason that action is required NOW.

What the leaders of Scotland, Northern Ireland, and Gibraltar are jointly trying to do, is strike a deal with the EU during the 2 year "UK" exit negotiations so that the 3 territories do not in fact ever EXIT the EU but in some way REMAIN. This reflects the democratic will of the people in those 3 territories.

There is a "reverse" precedent here in the case of Greenland which is part of the Kingdom of Denmark (a EU member) - wherein Greenland was allowed to secede from the EEC (as it was then) while Denmark itself remain in. Clearly, this would be the other way round in the case of Scot/NIre/Gib and it may turn out to be impossible - but it has to be tested.

The urgency is that we cannot wait to see what happens - if the proposed Brexit goes ahead then in 2 years or so we will all be OUT.

To then have to open negotiations with the EU to get back IN would be much harder in the case of Scotland and I'd suggest harder still for N Ireland, and impossible for Gibraltar - this is why there is only a limited window of opportunity.

Even if the Netherlands were to announce an intention to leave, that could take years - we do not have years before we are dragged OUT.

[Nirish guy]

To be clear the "Leader" of N.I ( The First Minister) is absolutely not trying to strike any deal to remain ( I wish she was), her party ( of which she is also leader) were the main drivers of the Leave campaign here.

The Deputy First Minister ( Sein Fein) is making noise about them trying to work out how N.I remains but I think even they know that as things stand constitutionally they haven't a hope of changing that from the rest of the UK as a whole and their noise is more just all part of their continuing united Ireland push (and is too just more about making hay while the sun shines perhaps in that regard) not unlike Scotland's First Minister too in truth perhaps.

The crazy thing is that our First Minister IS wilfully ignoring the local vote ( which was to remain) and opting to run with the main UK overall vote to leave ( as it suits their view) so it seems democracy can be local when it suits and National when that suits to, I just wish they'd stick a side and stick to it so we all know where we are for longer than 10 minutes at a time !

[scottish-guy]

Hi NIrish - clearly you are closer to your situation than I am (and I certainly don't wish to second guess anything that goes on in your part of the world) but I can assure you there has definitely been contact between the First Minister of Scotland and the Chief Minister of Gibraltar with an intention to include N. Ireland in exploring all possibilites to remain in the EU - if that is what the leadership of N Ireland wishes.

I accept your point that contact with NI may not yet have been made (or perhaps it's been made informally but not been made public?) - however it will be made. From what you say, any approach may be rebuffed and should that be the case it would certainly show a total lack of respect for the result where you are, but that would of course be for your electorate to deal with.

Contact has certainly been made with both the President of the Republic and with the Taoiseach - but this is in regard to eliciting their support within the EU rather than anything to do with uniting north and south.

http://europe.newsweek.com/how-scotl...bership-474931

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7106306.html

https://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-...bulent-future/

[Nirish guy]

They may well contact Sein Fein who wish to remain and are angling after the PR to show they're actively pursuing that, but if they contact the actual First ministers Office they'll absolutely be chased as they and she were the leaders of the leave campaign, there's no if's or buts about that. They can contact the Deputy First Ministers Office and talk to they're blue on the face but they'll not get anywhere with that.

I'm torn as on one hand I would wish to remain and NI did vote ( 57% i think) to remain, however as a member of the UK and a democrat ( in the main) I do concede ( unlike Scotland perhaps) that we'll probably have to go with the overall UK vote and make the best of a bad job just and faces things out one way of the other just now and we'll see in a few years who was right or not.

[fountainhall]

The entire post-Referendum disaster is far more like a Monty Python sketch than a bunch of supposedly responsible politicians whose primary duty is to look after the fate of the country. It's perfectly clear that with the possible exception of Nicola Sturgeon, no-one - absolutely no-one - had any detailed plan in place in the event that the majority voted for Brexit. Since Friday morning, we have seen panic, cover-ups, billions wiped off world stock markets, sterling at its lowest level for decades - and a political tsunami affecting UK politics that will not be resolved for months.

Even the Bresiteers seem shell-shocked. Boris Johnson MP was nowhere near the house of Commons on Monday when the result was debated. Was he afraid of the reception he'd get - or was he shoring up his base as he plans to be the next PM? The slimeball Farage spent yesterday at the European parliament - the body that must approve the terms of Britain's exit - in no uncertain terms insulting the President and members. Afterwards he told CNN it was just some form of innocent banter - just as he was "too nice a person" to correct the "mistake"/lie spread by him and his colleagues about £350 million per week of savings going to the National Health Service. And now there is serious talk amongst government back-benchers of moves to make a second referendum happen!

They say there is a very fine line between comedy and tragedy. I don't see many people laughing!

[Nirish guy]

"I don't see many people laughing"

Which of course was exactly what Farage said in his EU last hurrah - albeit he meant it in a much more fuck you kind of way of course ie "you used to laugh at me when I said I wanted the UK out of the EU, well, you're not laughing now are you ( you fuckers, I won so FUCK YOU) being the general undertone of his point.