Brexit

[cdnmatt]

Leave NATO? great idea. The EU diplomats may be self-serving but those NATO generals are straight out of Doctor Strangelove.

Like it or not, you're happy NATO exists. Same type of thing as for example, there's loads I hate about the US, but I have to admit, I'm happy to see them as the world's super power. I'd much prefer them in that role than China.

Again, let's just hope this doesn't have a domino effect across the EU. I'm sure political factions across the EU, especially in places like Greece, Spain and Portugal are watching closely and are thinking, "well, maybe we should have a referendum too". Germany, UK, and France are leaders of the EU, so the UK leaving is probably going to have some reprecussions. Let's just hope those reprecussions aren't bad enough to make Russia and China jizz themselves.

[arsenal]

Matt. I don't know if you've noticed but China is already jizing themselves. We see their rising dominance every month. This is going to be the Chinese century.

[scottish-guy]

I'll stick my neck out here. I don't think the UK will totally leave but rather remain as part of the trading block without the political interference.

You're REALLY sticking your neck out on that one - no other country in the world has secured such a deal with the EU. To remain "part of the trading block" - e.g by joining EFTA - you still have to pay a contribution to the EU, accept all the rules, and most importantly accept and uphold the principle of free movement - which is probably the single biggest issue which motivated the English and Welsh to vote to exit.

As for the situation with Scotland, a second Scottish Independence referendum is now inevitable. There is no political choice - the vote to remain in the EU was 62 to 38 against, and our First Minister would be lacking in her duty if she did not seek to see it put into effect - and the only way of doing that is if Scotland becomes Independent.

Interestingly, the German parliament has said this morning that Germany would welcome Scotland staying within the EU an as Independent country - which is a dramatic new development as the allegations from the NO camp during the 2014 Indyref was that Scotland would never get in.

Meantime the EU itself is today not bending over backwards to somehow appease the UK - they are telling the UK that now it has voted to exit, then please hurry up and fuck off.

There will be at least a 2 year window of opportunity (during the UK exit negotiations) in which negotiations in principle between the EU and Scotland can take place.

Whether or not Scotland would take their second chance is another matter - there are a myriad of difficulties not leasr of which is the currency issue - but the prospect of Boris the bumbling buffoon as the next UK Prime Minister is worth a few hundred thousand votes on its own

[cdnmatt]

Matt. I don't know if you've noticed but China is already jizing themselves. We see their rising dominance every month. This is going to be the Chinese century.

Wouldn't be so sure of that. The US is still the dominant super power in the world, and doesn't look like that will be changing any time soon. Who do you think is keeping Russia and China at bay right now? There's constant mass US & NATO led military exercises in Eastern Europe, the US has beefed up it's military presence in the South Pacific to ensure China doesn't get any ideas, etc. Like it or not, and agree with US policy or not, they're currently keeping this world a peaceful place to live.

As for the Brexit, the UK leaving isn't the be all and end all. My main fear is that other countries are going to follow suit, and a divided Europe could potentially spell disaster. There's no reason to think a WARSAW type pact can't re-emerge, and I'm assuming there's discussions going on in Moscow right about such a possibiliy. Hell, Russia already invaded Ukraine, so if the EU falls apart, we could be in trouble.

[Moses]

Like it or not, and agree with US policy or not, they're currently keeping this world a peaceful place to live.

Tell that to people of Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Libya,

[arsenal]

Scottish. I'll wait on that subject. It's for another day but I think calls for another referendum are entirely justified. However, I honestly don't think it will come to that.

Matt: China is already the dominant country in the South China Sea, the largest trading partner for most of Asia, building whole cities in Africa, building military islands in international waters, setting up their own world bank to which the UK and Australia both signed up plus managing to get their own way on a whole number of other issues which you are possibly not even aware of.
The EU and the USA have done their best to push democracy but that battle has been lost, hence Obamas' hastening to develop relations with both Cuba and Vietnam, going so far as to sell arms to the later. Unthinkable just a couple of years ago.

[cdnmatt]

Tell that to people of Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Libya,

Well, that's for geo-political reasons, mainly due to natural resources.

Granted, the US isn't exactly the most peace loving nation in the world, but they're probably better than having China in the role of super power.

[Moses]

Hell, Russia already invaded Ukraine.

Sure-sure: Russian already 2+ years "invaded" to Ukraine and NATO still searching evidences for this. Everyone has camera on phones now, still no one photo of troops which are marching by Ukraine are published. How it is possible? For sure there are a lot of Russian freelancers and soldiers of fortune on the side of pro-russian rebels in Ukraine, also for sure there are working instructors, advisers and Russia support pro-russian rebels and sell and supply them with weapons.

But for 2+ years NATO still hasn't any evidence of regular Russian army presence behind border Russia-Ukraine. And this "Russian invading" looks like Colin Powell's Presentation to the UN Security Council... I think you understand what I mean

[cdnmatt]

You mean aside from the fact Crimea is now a part of Russia? Aside from that little incident, yeah, they haven't invaded at all.

I'm sorry, but Russia has shown every intention of aggression. And there's a chance the UK leaving the EU is just a stepping stone, and other countries will now do the same. If that happens, I wouldn't expect Russia to sit on the sidelines.

[Moses]

You mean aside from the fact Crimea is now a part of Russia? Aside from that little incident, yeah, they haven't invaded at all.

"Aside" from fact what Crimea was part of Russia from queen's Ekaterina II time and has been "gifted" by Khrushov at 1960-s to Ukraine without any referendum. "aside" from fact what Crimea was autonomous republic and voted to exit from Ukraine, "aside" from fact what Russia didn't invaded to Crimea just cuz had 25000 troops in Crimea by agreement with Ukraine since 1993, you are right