Alternatives to Western Union

[bruce_nyc]

Utter nonsense.

There is no such thing as a modern bitcoin wallet that *doesn't* encrypt the wallet ( including, most importantly, the private keys ), and then send it somewhere as a backup. To *not* do so would be a major flaw in the design of a bitcoin wallet.

Also, you're making loads of false assumptions because you're apparently too lazy to do the research... or even watch a few videos.... and try to understand them.

Airbitz does not encrypt the private keys using only the password. See quote below.

Airbitz did not create the p2p network. It's an industry standard architecture for securely backing up in a distributed way.

That video was done Sept 2014. By now, Airbitz is already taking the lead in the bitcoin wallet space. Nobody has ever lost any bitcoin using Airbitz. Many users store $50,000 to $100,000 in their Airbitz Wallet on their phone. It's actually quite common. It's pretty much *impossible* to lose bitcoin by any means.... if you use Airbitz.

It's already automatically backed up.... by the time the wallet is able to receive money.

You could install the app, then I send you $100, then you immediately drop your phone into the ocean..... and you wouldn't lose a cent.

From https://airbitz.co/go/faq/

AirBitz uses AES256 for encryption and the keys are generated from the userтАЩs login + password. The login & password are combined then hashed using Scrypt with a minimum set of (N,r,p) parameters of (16384,1,1) which is many orders of magnitude stronger than most other wallets, especially web wallets which typically only use a SHA hash with a few thousand rounds. Scrypt is way more memory and CPU intensive per round.

The minimum parameters of (16384,8,1) are only on slow iPhone 4 or old Android devices. On faster phones the parameters can go as high as (128000,8,1) which are extremely difficult to brute force.

Also note that no Scrypt ASIC miners can hash Airbitz passwords as ASIC miners only use parameters (1024,1,1).

Random number generation is a critical aspect to cryptography, and Airbitz utilizes several sources of entropy to provide randomness. First is the operating system random number generator. Airbitz calls directly into the core of the OS, bypassing potential issues with libraries such as those present in an earlier version of the Java library. Entropy is also added from various system sources such as free memory, time/date, and file system info. This combination protects from a compromise of any one of the entropy sources.

If you watch this video starting at 11m 30s ..... This guy actually gives a very good whiteboard overview of the unique security and architecture features of Airbitz. No other wallet comes close to this level of security and loss-prevention.

https://youtu.be/eFoEdKxH1fQ

[cdnmatt]

That's because you can't, because you don't know what you're talking about.

You're just a bitcoin enthusiast / marketing piece, but don't actually understand the underlying technology behind it. You might think you do, but you've already proven to me you don't.

Again, anyone wanting to get into bitcoin, I can recommend https://electrum.org/ for a wallet. That's not my software, and I have absolutely no affiliation with it whatsoever. Just Google it, you can read the reviews, and see it's a time tested, secure wallet. I don't use it myself, but majority of my clients do.

I develop more commercial based applications, which quite obviously is of absolutely no use to anyone here. However, end-user wallets might be. Prostitutes throughout North America love bitcoin these days, so there's no reason that won't spread to Thailand, hence within a year or two you can expect your favorite bar boy in white briefs to accept bitcoin as payment, if they don't already.

[Nirish guy]

I don't know why more other gay and non-gay businesses (in Pattaya) are not accepting bitcoin yet.

Well Pattaya aside I can tell you that one reason that I wouldn't consider using Bitcoin in my business anytime soon is that assuming for the sake of good manners that neither of you two gentlemen are setting out to intentionally fleece the membership of the board etc, then if YOU TWO apparently knowledgable "experts" ( or one expert and one bluffer or both of you somewhere in between perhaps, I really can't tell ) can't even agree on what is safe working proceedures and what is not then how the hell are we, the ordinary Joes out there, meant to know or trust Bitcoin and or the software and people behind it all !!

I think to me THAT is one of Bitcoins biggest weakness as I see it - that plus the seemingly very high probability of one getting their money stolen by hackers ( or Bitcoin App writers even ?) if you DON'T know what you're doing as THAT from what I've read above seems to be the only one thing on which you DO both agree ! :-(

[bruce_nyc]

First, I want to mention that I do *not* recommend using Electrum. There are many reasons for that. One of the most obvious reasons is that it's not a bitcoin wallet. It cannot even run on a smartphone..... so good luck carrying your entire PC in your pocket to the bar or restaurant or gay sex massage shop. Also, it does not make an automatic encrypted off-site backup of your wallet. So, you step away from your laptop and your laptop gets stolen.... and you can say bye bye to all your money. :-* Also, as everyone knows, computers are very highly prone to malware ( aka viruses ) that *will* steal your bitcoins. Smartphones are exponentially more secure than computers are.

Also, by the way, Airbitz is the *only* smartphone bitcoin wallet that does not rely on the app publisher's servers to process transactions in any way. In other words, if Airbitz company were to vanish overnight, along with all of their servers.... app users wouldn't even notice. Everything would work just as normal. And, of course, Airbitz never has access to the users' bitcoin or account data. NO OTHER SMARTPHONE BITCOIN WALLET can make that statement.

I can tell you that one reason that I wouldn't consider using Bitcoin in my business anytime soon is that assuming for the sake of good manners that neither of you two gentlemen are setting out to intentionally fleece the membership of the board etc, then if YOU TWO apparently knowledgable "experts" ( or one expert and one bluffer or both of you somewhere in between perhaps, I really can't tell ) can't even agree on what is safe working proceedures and what is not then how the hell are we, the ordinary Joes out there, meant to know or trust Bitcoin and or the software and people behind it all !!

I hear ya. I understand exactly what you're saying and I can empathize with your feeling about it. Bitcoin is cash.... in an electronic form.... so, by definition, it will always be an ideal target for thieves. Gold, silver, diamonds, and.... cash.... are all equally a big target for thieves. That's why, as with all of these commodities, it's extremely important that you handle them, and store them, with great care.... taking the advice of "experts" that *you* trust.

I am fanatical about bitcoin security, and I am a true expert in the field. ( However, I think I've never actually uttered those words before.... because everyone in the bitcoin world already knows me and knows that I am. )

Matt, in your egocentric quest to make yourself seem "smart" by putting others down... you are really doing damage to bitcoin..... as you can see.... Confusing people is not helpful to anyone...... and definitely not helpful to bitcoin.

In the old days, we really had very limited options to really provide true hardened security for people in protecting their bitcoins. But I always knew that the software and systems would continue to evolve and improve very quickly. Now, we have the extreme security we need..... *and* it's easier to use than any banking app. It's called Airbitz. There is no more secure hot wallet in the world.

And for offline cold storage, ( for very large investment amounts; i.e. more than $100,000 ) we all now have excellent new options as well.

Bitcoin is really ready for prime time now. That might have something to do with its value going from $354 to $415 in only the past 7 days. The value just keeps going up.... year after year.... as I've been predicting for years.

For some other opinions about accepting bitcoin in your business, I'd recommend calling on the phone and speaking with the owners of Pattaya Beer Garden in Pattaya, and Eat Me Restaurant in Bangkok. I'm sure they'd be happy to speak with you and explain why they love accepting bitcoin in their businesses. Also, PaleoRobbie.com which is the number one healthy gourmet meal home delivery service in Bangkok, has been accepting bitcoin for a long time now. I've also just convinced the largest local Bangkok pizza delivery business to accept bitcoin. They'll be implementing it soon.

[Nirish guy]

Again without getting into who's right or wrong in general here, one quick question - so Mr Airbitz and Mr Electrum have both it seems designed and released some form of bit coin wallet - why ? Whats in it for them ? I'm assuming it's free to use these wallets ??? and if so as it's free to do money transfers etc again what do they ( or any developer) get from working on improving the Bitcoin industry ?

Oh and Bruce just to be clear it's not that Matt's posts that confuse the issue and make me not trust Bitcoin as for all I know he could well be 100% correct, my point is and was that theres even the room for such fully opposing positions between yourselves in the first place, THAT'S what would make me avoid Bitcoin. People can argue about which bank gives the best rates and what's the fastest way to send money via your bank etc but no one is arguing that generally speaking it will get there without being scammed off you before you even send it ( with normal robbing bastard bank scams excepted of course) but THAT to be is the difference as with Bitcoin I've no confidence of that ACTUALLY happening risk free every time I might use the service.

[bruce_nyc]

That's why I suggest that you talk with people who are actually *using* bitcoin every single day..... to do tons of transactions... from $10 to $100,000 each.... or whatever amounts. They'll tell you.

About the bad information posted here, it's not that we can't agree. It's that only one of us has any idea what he's talking about. So don't listen to either of us. Just go to the meetup.com Bitcoin Meetup in your city and ask them. The Bangkok Bitcoin meetup is very large now. They meet every week on Mondays. Mostly they're all bitcoin users, and there are a few bitcoin accepting merchants there, and a few real experts. Of course, they all know me.

To your excellent question of, Why do these developers create bitcoin wallets? What's in it for them?

Bitcoin Wallets are just software / programs / apps..... and like all software, it can be either published by passionate volunteers and made available to the whole world for free for the benefit of all mankind..... or it can be made proprietary and closed in order to make a profit. The first type is called FOSS, Free Open Source Software. Examples of some great FOSS software include: Linux (which is the brains inside everything from your Tivo to your elevators to the Mars Rovers), Firefox, VLC, Bitcoin (the network itself), OpenOffice, phpBB (this forum), and millions of others. Examples of some proprietary software include: everything published by Apple, Microsoft, and most apps in an Apple App Store.

Electrum is not a real wallet, in the sense that it doesn't run on a portable device. It's a desktop app. It is FOSS and developed by volunteers.

Airbitz is a private for-profit company. They publish Airbitz as a FOSS app though. The app is completely open source. The way Airbitz will make money is.... Within the app, you have the ability to buy or sell bitcoin for your local currency. Airbitz company will get a tiny cut of the fees charged by that outside company that handles the buying / selling of bitcoin.

[Mancs]

Bitcoin is really ready for prime time now. That might have something to do with its value going from $354 to $415 in only the past 7 days. The value just keeps going up.... year after year.... as I've been predicting for years.

So if I'd bought bitcoin at up to $1250 at the end of 2013, early 2014, would I be in profit at $416 today?

[cdnmatt]

Again without getting into who's right or wrong in general here, one quick question - so Mr Airbitz and Mr Electrum have both it seems designed and released some form of bit coin wallet - why ? Whats in it for them ?

Money. I'm unsure of how Electrum makes money, but I'm assuming it's the same as me. I have both, open source and commercial wallets that I've developed, and the open source one is bascally used as my resume. It lets potential clients check out my work before they hire me, and is a great marketing tool. I'm assuming others like Electrum and AirBitz do the same -- take on commercial clients. It's the same way for example, how Oracle and RedHat make money. They both other free open source software that's widely popular, but also have commercial based products / services they sell.

If I was a general purpose software developer, due to globalization I'd probably be struggling to land $40/hour contracts. Being a developer that specializes in bitcoin though allows me to charge about 3x that amount plus licensing fees, and I get my choice of contracts. I don't even have to look for clients -- they come to me, and I have far more work than I can handle.

[cdnmatt]

One of the most obvious reasons is that it's not a bitcoin wallet. It cannot even run on a smartphone

heh, this is getting comical now. So only mobile apps are considered "wallets" in your eyes?

Also, it does not make an automatic encrypted off-site backup of your wallet

Right, because that would be a really fucken stupid and dangerous thing to do. If a client ever requested I developed that, I would try to talk them out of it, and if I couldn't, would refuse the project.

So, you step away from your laptop and your laptop gets stolen.... and you can say bye bye to all your money.

No. You can backup your BIP32 private key on things like a USB card, or even just a piece of paper. That private key is all you need to access your funds. Again, it looks like this:

xprv9s21ZrQH143K2JF8RafpqtKiTbsbaxEeUaMnNHsm5o6wCW 3z8ySyH4UxFVSfZ8n7ESu7fgir8imbZKLYVBxFPND1pniTZ81v Kfd45EHKX73

You can see here -- http://bip32.org/

Smartphones are exponentially more secure than computers are.

What do you think a smartphone is? It's a computer that's connected to the internet. It's just as prone to viruses and hacking than a desktop / laptop is.

Matt, in your egocentric quest to make yourself seem "smart" by putting others down... you are really doing damage to bitcoin..... as you can see.... Confusing people is not helpful to anyone...... and definitely not helpful to bitcoin.

No, you are by pushing a newer app that has yet to stand the test of time. Especially considering you have yet to give any semblance of a technical response. Give it some time -- let the people who actually know about bitcoin go through AirBitz, plus the hackers, before you start pushing it to people with no knowledge of bitcoin.

Bitcoin is really ready for prime time now. That might have something to do with its value going from $354 to $415 in only the past 7 days.

Bitcoin goes up and down all the time. Wouldn't get too excited, because it'll probably be back to $350 in short order. Again, mid-2016 when the block rewards halve is when you can expect a permanent price increase.

[Smiles]

So if I'd bought bitcoin at up to $1250 at the end of 2013, early 2014, would I be in profit at $416 today?

Exactly. The original handful of early birds to Bitcoin could have made a killing .... buying in at 6 cents and selling out at $1200. Happens all time with new startups in the penny stock markets.