Alternatives to Western Union

[bruce_nyc]

Matt, the only thing that is "stupid and dangerous" are your comments. You make off the wall comments bashing something that you've never bothered to even google.... much less install it.

I wanted to make sure I am being 100% accurate, so I just messaged the lead developer. Here's his reply:

Airbitz App Permissions

Identity - entails some needed details of the device i.e. screen size, etc
Contacts - to load names and photos for optional transaction meta data **
Location - for the merchant directory ( the app has a directory of local bitcoin-accepting businesses everywhere and uses your gps to show them to you )
Photo/Media/Files - for loading photos containing qr codes ( this is an amazingly slick feature )
Camera - for scanning qr codes, obviously
Bluetooth - to send/receive transactions, obviously
NFC - to send/receive transactions, obviously

** ( Optionally, when you send/receive bitcoin to/from a contact of yours, it will autoload your friend's name and photo... to be stored with that transaction. You can select Send, then simply start typing k o m m.... and "John Kommentariat" will autocomplete. If you select him, his full name and photo will appear and be stored in your transaction history ledger along with all the other details of that transaction. You can even select the income or expense categories -- just like Quicken or Quickbooks. ie. "Expenses / Food / Dining Out / Fast Food" .....or..... "Income / Misc Consulting Fees" received FROM "John Kommentariat" )

If you thought it through for a few moments, you should be able to figure these things out yourself. If not, there's always google.com

By the way, I'd like to remind everyone that the Airbitz app is an "open source" app. That means that YOU, and *everyone* on earth, can read and carefully study every line of code of the program. It's totally open and transparent. Even though you might not have the skills to be able to understand the programming code, you can feel assured that thousands, if not millions, of expert programmers all around the world are studying it carefully. They are looking for flaws in it. They are looking for any shady actions it may perform. They would be the first to broadcast loudly if they found anything wrong in it. Nobody has every found any flaws. The code has also been independently audited for security. It passes with flying colors.

Maybe they mean something different by "client side encryption", but generally that means Javascript based signing of transactions, which mean web wallet.

This is a face-palm... ( when I slap my forehead with the palm of my hand... because I can't believe the stupidity of what I've just heard )

There are at least 12 things wrong with this statement. OMG. Where to start? No offense but... You speak random nonsensical jargon words.

First, Javascript is a programming language that is web-based. The code ( program ) gets downloaded into your browser from a web page and runs inside your browser tab. This has about as much to do with bitcoin as "the efficiency of bicycle propulsion in a rain storm in rural China". Use of Javascript is generally a bad idea.... for anything other than the most trivial web page layout and update use cases.

Airbitz is an app. It does not use the web. It does not use a browser at all. And it most certainly does not use Javascript.

Signing of transactions is a cryptographic event. It can *only* happen locally ( or as you call it, "client side" ). There is no other way to do it. Other than not doing it at all... and someone else doing it. ( The classic case of allowing "someone else doing it" for you, is a web wallet.... where you're basically just giving your money to some other guy to hold for you. Then, naturally, *he* will be signing all transactions... not you. )

Again, Airbitz is not a web wallet. Airbitz does NOT even use the web.

And they're passing private keys around on a P2P network? I don't care if they're encrypted or not, you don't do that. I don't want my private keys floating around on dozens of different servers, even if they are encrypted.

OMG. Can I face-palm twice in the same message? Ouch! That hurt! #-o

What do you think Bitcoin is....? The Bitcoin Network *is* exactly that. The Bitcoin Network *itself* "...takes private keys and passes them around on a p2p network." omg. omg.

If you think that's dangerous.... then don't use bitcoin. And certainly don't use banks. And don't use the internet. And... omg Don't use phones. And.... omg. Don't even use electricity.

That means all your funds are available with a piece of text like this:

xprv9s21ZrQH143K2JF8RafpqtKiTbsbaxEeUaMnNHsm5o6wCW 3z8ySyH4UxFVSfZ8n7ESu7fgir8imbZKLYVBxFPND1pniTZ81v Kfd45EHKX73

Someone gets that piece of text, and your funds are gone.

Holy Sh*t. That's another slam in my face with both hands !

You obviously know absolutely *nothing* about Bitcoin..... or even about cryptography.

Sorry. I'm really trying not to get upset. But what you are saying is *total* BS...

Ask your Mom if she can explain to you how private key cryptography works, and how a private key can protect your money. Oh lord.

As for your fears of Airbitz being associated with SGT... That's also nonsense. The founder and CEO is a very close friend. He knows *all* about my life and my gay thailand sexcapades. He'd probably buy ad space on SGT if I asked him to. Again, no offense, but you are soooooo full of it.

People talk so much ignorant shit..... spewing out of their mouths like verbal vomit.... all over everyone.... :ymsick:

Ironically.....

I am always very happy to teach novices about all of this stuff... But please don't act like you "know more than you" when you don't even know the most *basic* bits of it.

Anyone have any questions about Bitcoin? I'm happy to answer....

[bruce_nyc]

The CEO of Airbitz just replied to me. ...even tho I guess it's 1:09AM, his time, in California.

He added this....

Identity includes the users info like phone number and email address. This is only used locally to auto complete phone number fields for registration for things like buy/sell.

The misconception that many people have is that an app's access to device data means that the company has that access too. It doesn't have to be the case. With Airbitz, only the local app accesses that data for your convenience. It never leaves your phone unencrypted.

[cdnmatt]

Ok, this conversation is obviously quite useless. The reason I got defensive is because you're fucking with people's money. Don't do that unless you know what you're doing, which you quite obviously don't. I could write about a 2 page essay on the inaccuracies in your above post, but I'm not going to bother, because you're quite obviously going to go ahead with the AirBitz project anyway.

Have fun with your project.

[cdnmatt]

Ok, I'm bored, so let's give it a crack.

- Yes, Javascript is a client-side programming language (ie. it runs in your browser). Server side programming languages generally include things such as Perl, PHP, Python, etc. Again, when a bitcoin wallet advertises "client side encryption", most people are going to assume that means Javascript based signing. That doesn't appear to be the case here, so that point is moot.

- Yes, you can sign transactions on the server, not just client, assuming the server has access to the private key, even if it's only for a few milliseconds. Yes, there are ways to do this securely.

- The example private key I showed above is exactly all you need to wipe someone's wallet. That's how HD BIP32 wallets work, which I'm assuming they use as it's the standard now (thankfully). Again, this is a good thing. That means you can generate just over 2.1 billion payment addresses with just the public key (starts with "xpub", not "xprv"), hence the private key never has to be online.

- No, private keys are not shared across the P2P network. Only ECC signatures are, which are generated with the private key. The private key itself NEVER touches the P2P network. That would be REALLY fucken stupid, and apparently AirBitz has decided that's a good idea. It's the equivalent of having your credit card number shared across dozens of servers on a P2P network. Even if encrypted, you just don't do that.

- Preaching privacy, then requiring access to basically my entire tablet is a little hypocritical. Sorry, but access to my dick pics aren't required for a bitcoin wallet. Ok, I don't have any dick pics, but if I did, their app doesn't need access to them.

- I'm glad the CEO doesn't mind you're gay. You better hope for your sake this thread doesn't rank highly in Google, because there will be discussions on Reddit and other forums about what I've said if it does. Well, that and the association to a bunch of older guys who like to fuck gay Thai hookers might not be the marketing ploy he was hoping for. heh.

And one final thing.



haha... ok, I'm going to go have sex again. That sounds a little more fun than sitting here, typing and explaining to you the very basics of bitcoin. If you don't believe anything I've written, feel free to copy & paste it to say bitcointalk.org or anywhere else. Anyone knowledgeable will confirm everything I said is true.

[Old git]

You can argue about the security of Bitcoin's systems till the cows come home. The issue is what is a currency for, and against that backdrop, is Bitcoin a good or bad currency?

A currency is a storage vehicle for wealth, and in general terms, the greater the stability of the buying power of that wealth, the greater the security it affords to the owner. A good currency is therefore one that presents good stability of buying power.

The value of Bitcoin in terms of its buying power has proved deeply unstable to date, and against those fluctuations (speculation aside) it is very hard to argue that it presents a wise means of storing one's wealth.

But then, given its very short life, is there reason to expect that with time it will achieve the stability needed to become a serious global currency?

That will only happen if many countries start to use Bitcoin as their national currency, loosely attaching its value to commodities as they do so. However, countries will only do that when Bitcoin affords sufficient stability of value to make it a realistic alternative to the Greenback - Catch 22..

Bitcoin's lack of attachment to the value of tangible goods is its fundamental design flaw IMO. Whilst the desire to have a currency that is free from political manipulation is attractive, there are other routes that would deliver the desired outcome with far greater inherent stability. For example, a currency based on a kilo of rice for delivery in five years time, might well achieve greater value stability than any major currency.

Bitcoin is not, of necessity, unique. If an alternate stateless currency with greater stability was launched and gained traction, the value of Bitcoin would almost certainly plummet. As the fashionable new kid on the block, Bitcoin has some allure, but can it survive into boring middle age? - I'm doubtful..

[cdnmatt]

You can argue about the security of Bitcoin's systems till the cows come home.

I'm pretty sure security is quite important. People tend to not like getting their money stolen. That's the main reason I got so defensive in this thread. Majority of SGT members won't have any knowledge of bitcoin, so when someone like bruce shows up giving shitty advice, I'm going to speak up. Like I said previously in this thread, bitcoin in and of itself is extremely secure, but many of the applications built on top of it are complete garbage.

The value of Bitcoin in terms of its buying power has proved deeply unstable to date, and against those fluctuations (speculation aside) it is very hard to argue that it presents a wise means of storing one's wealth.

Actually, volatility isn't too bad these days. It's been fairly stable for a good year now, but you are right, definitely don't put your life savings into bitcoin. I'm a bit of an oddity, as I invoice in USD, get paid in BTC, and am in it for the long-term as I have no problem seeing the price at $1500+ in the future, so for me flucuations don't matter. For everyone else though, it would definitely be a concern.

That will only happen if many countries start to use Bitcoin as their national currency

Governments aren't ever going to fully endorse bitcoin. It'll continue to gain traction during economic crises such as Cyprus and Greece. People don't like capital controls, and only being allowed to take out 60 Euro/day, and they also don't like massive devaluation of their currency. You can expect those types of crises to continue in the future, and that's what will give bitcoin more traction.

Bitcoin is not, of necessity, unique. If an alternate stateless currency with greater stability was launched and gained traction, the value of Bitcoin would almost certainly plummet.

There's thousands of "alt-coins" already, and basically none have gained any traction whatsoever. If there ever was one that was going to gain traction, it would have been Stellar. It was started in part by Stripe, and had an amazing team of people from places like MIT, Stanford, Yale, CMU, Columbia, etc. Stellar failed miserably, so I'm pretty confident bitcoin is here to stay. It's too large of an industry now for it to just disappear.

[Smiles]

I'm pretty sure security is quite important. People tend to not like getting their money stolen. That's the main reason I got so defensive in this thread. Majority of SGT members won't have any knowledge of bitcoin, so when someone like bruce shows up giving shitty advice, I'm going to speak up.

... thus coining a brand new English phrase: 'Bitcoin-Angst'.

But you are quite right ... (1) hardly anyone knows really what Bitcoin is all about. (2) A portion of the population would like to know more I'm sure. (3) A good deal of the population don't give a shit. (4) Another portion think it's a bubbling scam (I'm vaguely in that room). (5) A tiny portion think it's the cats ass and generally the savior of the world and if one gets in the early stages they will ~ absolutely and guaranteed ~ make 20 billion dollars profit "sometime in the future".

I hesitate to get involved with yourself or Bruce mainly because of number 1 and number 4 ... my annoyance with Bruce is that he's a raging right wing lunatic (with Bitcoin being only a part of his delusions). But you are a Canadian, and I forgive you the Bitcoinism, knowing full well that Canadians are never lunatics nor fanatics, on any subject.
,

For me the question of who to believe about Bitcoin and security comes down to weighing up the probabilities. How likely is it that someone who chooses to live in the back-blocks of Thailand, away from the water-coolers of Silicon Valley or Cambridge, a one-man-band programmer who, by his own admission canтАЩt make a living in his own country is more of an expert than a former Fortune 500 CIO with extensive contacts in Silicon Valley but who has proved over and over again in his posts that he inhabits some sort of parallel universe? That is, whose fantasy would you be prepared to buy?

Then thereтАЩs the mystery of who invented Bitcoin and what his motives are. A recent article in Wired magazine speculates that itтАЩs a very clever Australian (ie. not a447 or lonelywombat) whoтАЩs of the libertarian persuasion politically.

an almost obsessive autodidact and double-PhD who once boasted of obtaining new graduate degrees at a rate of about one a year. HeтАЩs a climate-change denier, a serial entrepreneur who started companies ranging from security consultancies to a bitcoin bank, and an eccentric who wrote on his blog that he once accepted a challenge to create a pencil from scratch and spent years on the problem, going so far as to make his own bricks to build his own kiln in which to mix the pencilтАЩs graphite.

Apparently he's also a tax-dodger; his home was raided by the Australian Tax Office today. I must add that to my list of common users of Bitcoin - child molesters, drug dealers and now tax evaders

As an aside the most interesting comment in the article was a rant by the Australian on Twitter:

тАШIdentityтАЩ is not your name. Where people go wrong is that they do not see it to be the set of shared experiences with other individuals.

As a definition itтАЩs pretty much what having a Forum posting identity means. Remember, on the Internet no-one knows youтАЩre a dog

[cdnmatt]

Nobody knows who invented bitcoin, but my personal opinion is the most likely scenario is the NSA. They released a white paper regarding crypto-currency well before bitcoin showed up on the scene. For another example, the US Navy developed Tor. Both, bitcoin and Tor ended up in the hands of the open source community, so the point of who invented it is rather moot.

[lonelywombat]

Fairfax has posted an update with photos on the arrest today
http://www.theage.com.au/business/bitco ... ljc73.html
Bitcoin's mysterious creator could be Australian Craig Steven Wright
video and photos have been deleted



Police and tax investigators have raided the Sydney home of a man members of the Australian bitcoin community say might be the mastermind behind controversial cryptocurrency, just hours after reports that he may be its secretive creator surfaced in the United States.

However, Fairfax Media has been told the raid at the property of Craig Steven Wright relates to an "individual taxation matter" involving Mr Wright, rather than his apparent role in creating the encrypted currency.

The Australian Federal Police attended Mr Wright's home in Gordon, on Sydney's north shore, on Wednesday afternoon to assist the Australian Taxation Office in carrying out a search.

US report
In a report published on Wednesday morning, US tech publication Wired said it had uncovered enough evidence to suggest that bitcoin's mysterious founder, who operated under the pseudonym Satoshi Nakamoto, was actually 44-year-old Mr Wright.

Wired acknowledged that its report was based on "unverified leaked documents" that it admitted "could be faked in whole or in part".

Fairfax Media attempted to contact Mr Wright for comment but received no response. The Australian Federal Police referred matters to the ATO. The ATO declined to comment.

Mr Wright is listed by the Australian Securities and Investments Commission as a director of Hotwire and another company, Panopticrypt, which are both registered at a residential address on Sydney's North Shore. He has been a shareholder and director in a range of other enterprises, the ASIC database shows.


He is also listed as chief executive on the website of a company called DeMorgan, which describes itself "a pre-IPO Australian listed company focused on alternative currency, next generation banking and reputational and educational products." Calls to this company went straight to voicemail.

'He was a bit weird'
At about 4.15pm, the real estate agent managing the Gordon home leased by Mr Wright entered the house after being told by a neighbour, who knew the owners, that it was being searched.


Federal Police and the ATO officers were then later seen leaving the property, at 4.50pm. Asked why the federal police were at the house, they offered "no comment".

Neighbours, who didn't wish to named, said Mr Wright was an elusive man who had two children and a partner. He had expensive taste in cars, owning Toyota Land Cruiser, a Lexus, and a Jaguar, they said.

Mr Wright, his partner and children were not seen within the vicinity of the house.

Apart from owning a dog, which one neighbour described as "noisy", he also owned hens, which could be seen out the back of his house.

"I thought he did something with insurance or was an entrepreneur or something," said one neighbour, who described Wright as a "daggy dad" often seen exercising in his garage gym. "He was a bit weird."

Another neighbour said Mr Wright apparently had three-phase, 450-volt power - normally used for industrial applications - installed at the home.

The same neighbour said he recently heard that Wright had packed up the house as he was apparently off to go live in London. None of the neighbours interviewed said that Wright had told them he was the creator of Bitcoin.

Plausible candidate
Chris Guzowski, founder of ABA Technologies and regular on the Bitcoin circuit, says Wired has uncovered enough circumstantial evidence for Mr Wright to be a plausible candidate.

"It certainly makes sense," says Mr Guzowski. "He's definitely been in Bitcoin from the very start and has accumulated a really big stash of Bitcoin. He's also been in this huge stoush with the ATO for a long time."

Andrew Sommer, a partner at Clayton Utz and who testified at last year's Senate Inquiry into digital currency, is reputedly Mr White's lawyer.

But Mr Sommer said he couldn't comment on any client when contacted by Fairfax.

Zhenya Tsvetnenko, founder of bitcoin remittancy company Digital BTC, has discussed business with Mr Wright previously and was struck by his understanding of Bitcoin and his long history with the protocol.

"It could definitely be him, I remember thinking this guy could be Satoshi at the time," Mr Tsvetnenko said

"I asked him how many Bitcoin he had and he said enough to buy a pizza. Which is a joke because it's well known in the Bitcoin community the first thing bought with the very first Bitcoin was a pizza."

The Wired story was not the first time a media outlet has claimed to reveal the true identity of bitcoin's founder.

Last year, US magazine Newsweek said it had found the mysterious person behind the cryptocurrency t. However the man it named, Dorien Nakamoto, unconditionally denied Newsweek's claim, and subsequently sued the publication.

The Wired report cites archived blog posts from as far back as 2008, purportedly written by Mr Wright, which discuss aspects of the distributed ledger that is a key element of bitcoin, as well as leaked emails and a liquidation report by Australian corporate recovery firm McGrath Nicol involving one of Mr Wright's companies.

McGrath Nicol confirmed the veracity of the liquidation report, which states that the company, called Hotwire Preemptive Intelligence, was backed by $30 million in capital that was "injected via bitcoins".



Potential hoax
Wired acknowledged that the trail of evidence leading to Mr Wright could be part of an elaborate hoax.

Asher Tan of CoinJar, Australia's largest bitcoin exchange, said he was skeptical of Wired's claim, pointing out the bitcoin community relies on mathematical proof.

Solid technical proof should be given more weight than speculation, he said.

"There are some methods of doing this," Mr Tan said. These would include "moving bitcoin attributed to Satoshi's personal stash or utilising his personal encryption key (PGP) to communicate.

"These aren't foolproof methods of identifying him, but anyone who publicly stakes a claim to being Satoshi would be expected to demonstrate either of these methods."

The New York Times, which conducted an inconclusive investigation of its own into the matter, has described Mr Nakamoto's identity as "one of the great mysteries of the digital age".

But many in the bitcoin community believe that the identity of the person (or people) behind Nakamoto is irrelevant, since the virtual currency is an open source and community driven technology. It sure is a fun story though.

Do you know you Satoshi Nakamoto? Email our reporters.