New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion

[scottish-guy]

You'll find plenty of confirmation that I've EVER been to Thailand, on this very board, going back 7 or 8 years - what a ridiculous thing to say. All that has changed during that time is that for the last year or two, with a nutter around, I have (wisely) declined to keep this board informed of any further trips to Thailand - and even when I report on trips elsewhere I change dates and certain details. I rather suspect there are several SGT posters who wish they had done likewise - and avoided having their personal details and photographs revealed to all and sundry. Why should I potentially put myself in that position? Of course, maybe you support the nutter, I don't know.

To answer your questions (assuming there's a YES vote):

YES, YES, YES, IF NECESSARY, YES, YES, YES, NO (like any normal country there will undoubtedly be problems along the way - but at least we shall be in charge of what we do about them).

What the Scottish people have to understand is that for one day (and for the first time ever) - on 18th September 2014 - they hold their sovereignty in their own hands. At the end of that day they will have voted either to keep it, gain some self respect, and move forward as an equal partner in the World - or to give it away and remain subservient to the interests of the South East of England.
If it's the latter, they should be in no doubt that the backlash from the UK will be substantial and devastating, and that with Milliband now matching Cameron's commitment to an in/out EU referendum, Scotland (as part of the UK) will be out of the EU -the ultimate irony of your current argument.

[arsenal]

Regardless of any result it will require ratification from Westminster and if Alex Salmand or whoever refuses to negotiate a decent deal then Parliament could drag it out for years or even decades if they want to. Who knows, it might even be the non SNP Scottish MPs who sit there who vote it down. Irony huh! A referendum is not legally binding. Remember the various countries that had multiple referenda until their people said 'yes' to the euro.

And this just in.
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-26362321
And this is just the beginning.

[scottish-guy]

This particular referendum IS binding on the UK Govt - try googling the Edinburgh Agreement and, just for added clarity, try googling Cameron's interview last week on STV where he confirmed the result will be respected by the UK Govt.

In the absurd event that the UK govt refused to recognise, or tried to block the democratically expressed wishes of the Scottish people (is that seriously what you are advocating - SERIOUSLY?) then that would precipitate a constitutional crisis the likes of which the UK has never seen. As I told you, even the Deputy Leader of the Scottish Conservatives has said that whilst he is campaigning for a NO vote, should it be YES, he will "man the barricades" for Scotland. With talk of the UK Govt refusing to accept the result, you are playing a very dangerous game Arsenal, and it shows just how much your side are rattled. The 30% lead for NO has evaporated into thin air and only a single figure swing is required in 7 months to sweep YES to victory in September. Hence the threats and scare-stories are being ratcheted up.

Moving on to Standard Life - this is a Company which has form in threatening to pull out of Scotland ( and that isn't even what they have actually said - google the actual statement - it's selective reporting by the State Broadcaster). They threatened to do so almost 20 years ago and wrote sinister letters to their employees suggesting that if Scots voted for a Parliament, they'd pull out. Guess what, they're still here and they'll still be here in 20 years time.

Your entire argument consists of nothing more than a series of threats and predictions of doom. It is predicated on peddling the insult that somehow Scotland is uniquely too small, too poor, and too stupid to stand on her own two feet. I would not be in the least surprised if you told us next that the sky will fall down should Scotland become independent. Only the feeble-minded are being taken in by this disgraceful scaremongering from people representing your view, and that is why a pro-independence political website yesterday crowdfunded over $100,000 in less than 24 hours - a record for any British political website.

Finally, just to REALLY piss you off - you do realise that if Scots vote for Independence, there's one more thing we'll be keeping.....our UK citizenship and passports. Any Scot who has British citizenship on the day before Independence Day will have dual nationality and will be entitled to a UK passport forevermore, as well as their Scottish one. I bet that gets your gears grinding doesn't it

PS - to any members who has a parent/grandparent born in Scotland - it is proposed that you will also be entitled to Scottish citizenship even if you yourself have never lived in Scotland. You can read more about this and the Scottish Govt's plans for Scotland in their 670 page prospectus here:

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2013/11/9348/0

[arsenal]

I predict a 60-40 win for the no vote. Quote any polls you like, the no campaign has only just got started whereas the 'yes' one has been going on for decades. There is no way the impetus can be maintained for 7 months. Not when your only real 'star' is Salmand. Much of what you claim will be picked apart. Nobel laureates or not.

By the way. I am not in any camp. Yes or No. I support England. Does it bother me that Scots will be entitled to UK citizenship? No it doesn't bother me, nor surprise me. Peoples from around the world would and do risk their lives in order to have the chance of a UK passport.
And no, I do not think that Scotland is too small, stupid or poor to stand on her own two feet. I do however think they are too canny to leave The UK. In the end, they will reject your arguments.

You began this debate with attacks on England and are now coming across as an almost hysterical xenophobe.

[scottish-guy]

the no campaign has only just got started....

This is hilarious - the Unionist/Dependency campaign has been going on for over 300 years.

Despite this, they have very few footsoldiers on the ground, which is where this campaign will be won and lost - amongst the ordinary citizens, not the fat cats.

What they DO have is the Westminster machine, the 100% Non-Scottish owned print media, and the State Broadcaster (BBC )in their pockets. But Westminster is largely discredited in Scotland and the media can only cry "Wolf!" so many times, people are seeing through it. They are now reduced to scaring pensioners.

Contrary to your assertion, there is far more to the YES campaign than Alex Salmond (note the spelling) - but he is an easy monstering target for the English (that's not racist, that's factual) media, which is increasingly resembling the Nazi propaganda outpourings of Der Sturmer - as these "hilarious" contributions from the Times, Express, and the laughingly-named Independent show:

[attachment=3:2nleu892]scexpress-460x293.jpg[/attachment:2nleu892]

[attachment=2:2nleu892]scindependent4-460x297.jpg[/attachment:2nleu892]

[attachment=0:2nleu892]sctimes3-460x306.jpg[/attachment:2nleu892]

[attachment=1:2nleu892]scindependent5-460x293.jpg[/attachment:2nleu892]

It's clear you have little idea of the breadth of the YES campaign (which encompasses the SNP, Greens, Labour for Independence, National Collective, Radical Independence, Solidarity, SSP, Business for Scotland, and many many more organisations). Alex Salmond is not even one of the Co-Chairs - but you wouldn't know that would you - and the sad fact is that you have no intention of educating yourself. Far easier just to throw generalisations about, irrespective of the actual facts.

As for your final point

....(you) are now coming across as an almost hysterical xenophobe.

I suggest you look here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

[egel]

You began this debate with attacks on England and are now coming across as an almost hysterical xenophobe.

Nah, just an easy wind up...probably too easy!

the YES campaign (which encompasses the SNP, Greens, Labour for Independence, National Collective, Radical Independence, Solidarity, SSP, Business for Scotland, and many many more organisations)

A man is known by the company he keeps

I'll ignore the slur about kilts ...

Clearly not, it seems to have got right up your ... um ... er ... kilt.

[scottish-guy]

the YES campaign (which encompasses the SNP, Greens, Labour for Independence, National Collective, Radical Independence, Solidarity, SSP, Business for Scotland, and many many more organisations)

A man is known by the company he keeps

Sorry, I don't get it - the grouping above encompasses every political and social category from the disenfranchised to big business, from environmentalists to oil producers - what exactly is your point?

I'll ignore the slur about kilts ...

Clearly not, it seems to have got right up your ... um ... er ... kilt.

Really, I don't think I've even mentioned kilts since I said I would ignore the remark - hardly a sign of being annoyed by it.

What a strange little man you are, Kommie.

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[scottish-guy]

[attachment=0:zeakm9jn]YS1.png[/attachment:zeakm9jn]

[arsenal]

SG: Well I just hope this issue isn't your lifes' work.