Lives of/options for gay over-18 year old Thais.

[adman5000]

I agree with the comments by Smiles and Lego.

Christian- I think your adjusted number is closer to my guesstimate.

I usually misjudge or underestimate the "face" aspect. So I am sure in most instances the guys lead a bit of a secret life in regards to families. But I also think there is a level of silent acceptance by the parents as long as the money comes in. I know the pressure on sons by the mothers to bring in money to the family is significant.

[colmx]

Pattaya: gogo bars 1000, beer bars 1000, gayromeo 3000, beach negligible

...

That makes 10,000

Of the 3000 on GR - surely the Gogo, beer bar boys are a subset of that 3000 population?

So in actuality that 5000 becomes 3000?

i.e. there are 3000 GR boys, 2000 of whom work in some sort or bar or gay massage venue?

[christianpfc]

.... I never witnessed any form of prostitution in saunas....

You're joking, right?

No. I have seen boys who are moneyboys in saunas, mostly in company of a Farang. He might pay them for company, but they probably met outside. I remember only one case of a boy who is a moneyboys who was not attached and who seemed to be available.

Anyway, saunas have non-prostitution policy. So I maintain my point: there is no prostitution Thai/Farang going on in saunas, or the extent is so small that it's negligible. If you have observations to the contrary, please share.

Colmx, there is an overlap between gayromeo boys and boys who work in fixed location, but it doesn't matter for the overall estimation if there are 1000 boys more or less. But you are probably correct that there are far less than 3000 boys in Pattaya who work entirely on gayromeo.

Smiles, how they know in Isaan about bars in Bangkok and Pattaya? Clearly, nobody gets the idea out of the blue that there might be places where they can dance in underwear for a Farang audience and make more money in a night than working a week in their hometown. There must be rumors, or they know someone who knows someone.

My corrected estimation is that 1 out of 100 boys age 20-30 knows someone who works in a bar or massage and can ask for details if he is interested. Working in a bar is a niche market, like playing in an orchestra in Europe to make a living. It's just not on the table as a possible area of work for the vast majority of Thai boys.

[BonTong]

Chiang Mai: 500
...
The criterion is if a boy is so much involved into prostitution for Farang that he makes a significant part of his living on it, and that he would tell his friends about it.

As far as Chiang Mai is concerned the criteria: тАЬprostitution for FarangтАЭ knocks the numbers down considerably.

Karaoke: maybe 100-150 guys, nearly all Shan with a few hilltribe guys. Clientele is almost exclusively Thai so these donтАЩt really count.

Go-go: Four bars, maybe 30-50 boys per bar, including those who donтАЩt show up every night. Almost exclusively Shan, total perhaps 160. Clientele depends on the bar (AdamтАЩs and Free Guy have more Farang, New My Way and Circle, more Thai/Asian)

Massage: 17 Shops promoted to Farangs, maybe 10 boys each and 50% Thai, 50% Hill tribe other. Total 170. There are other massage places, and Karaoke that arenтАЩt visible to Farangs, but they donтАЩt meet the criteria (we wonтАЩt go into the age and ethnicity of the guys who work there).

Freelancers and street kids: Night Bazaar/Thapae Gate/Muang Mai/Santitham/Kamtieng/Arcade etc тАУ Who knows as they come and go and arenтАЩt the same every night. But only the Night Bazaar is really тАЬprostitution for FarangтАЭ. Maybe 5-15 guys there most nights, perhaps a pool of not more than 40 in total, (most of whom are hilltribe). Very few ethnic Thais.

As to gay Gay Romeo etc тАУ Personally I donтАЩt use it, but from friends I get the impression there are hundreds of Thai boys on here in CM, but IтАЩm not sure how many would class as making a living from it. I suspect only a few tens of guys, but I may be wrong. The rest just do it for pocket money.

Another group is those who go to the big clubs and collect FarangтАЩs phone numbers, some just want sex, others are looking for a donation or sponsor. Lots of these guys in Chiang Mai but very hard to quantify how many. However, most only do this for pocket money so again they donтАЩt count and arenтАЩt working visibly as prostitutes. Similarly, many gay boys are the Mia Noi for older/wealthier Thai sponsors (often supposedly straight).

So, in terms of ethnic Thai guys fitting ChristianтАЩs criteria in Chiang Mai, its only perhaps 50% of the prostitutes working in massage and a few on Gay Romeo, perhaps a total of only about 150 ethnic Thai, and maybe 250 Shan and Hill tribe.

Of course, the most successful prostitutes are the young тАЬtrophy boyтАЭ boyfriends who live with old Farang sponsors whilst waiting for the inheritance. There are quite a few of these in Chiang Mai, perhaps even a few hundred as a lot of these guys donтАЩt go to gay places so arenтАЩt visible.

[lego]

Smiles, how they know in Isaan about bars in Bangkok and Pattaya? Clearly, nobody gets the idea out of the blue that there might be places where they can dance in underwear for a Farang audience and make more money in a night than working a week in their hometown. There must be rumors, or they know someone who knows someone.

Believe it or not, sometimes police raids of Pattaya bars make the Thai mainstream TV news. These bars aren't always gay bars, of course, but I think nowadays most people in Isaan have a pretty good idea of what's going on in Pattaya (thanks to TV, newspapers, YouTube clips, gossip, ...).

[dab69]

christianpfc wrote:
"nobody gets the idea out of the blue that there might be places where they can dance in underwear"



I have read of such places.
this is dispicable.
off with their underwear at once!

[newalaan2]

UPDATE/FOLLOW UP.

Didn't realise this original thread was as far back as Dec 2013, so now it's almost 4 years on. I was going to update this thread a couple years ago, but like many other previously frequent SGT contributors just lost the enthusiasm for the forum under surfcrest.I realise many who read the original post probably won't be here now, so apologies for resurrecting such and old one but I know one or two might still be here and even may remember it or be interested to know how things worked out for the boys in question. Also on my most recent trip we met up as usual with the two lads from the original post (as we always do) but recent events had landed one of the lads with a happy ending, so to speak...so I thought maybe a good time to update their lives from those Navanakorn days.

One of the 3 lads from the original post did head to Korea not long after I made it and remained working there for about 2 years before heading back to Issan to open a coffee shop style cafee in Kalasin. So that worked out ok for him. The other main two lads in the post worked away in Navanakorn for about another 18 months or so. I can't use their real names/nicknames as since they finally made the move to Pattaya may be known to members here. So we'll name them JayD and Vee.

After about 2 years in total of the factory treadmill in Navanakorn with occassional tasting of the delights in Pattaya through rare visits there when my bf and I came for hols and took them along, both JayD and Vee thought the time was right for a change and dedcied to have a go at the find-a-boyfriend route, in Vee's case preferrebly a farang one. JayD had tried his hand at Bkk barwork for a month before going to Navanakorn but didn't take to it. With these rare visits to Pattaya and keeping up with friends who worked there, Vee (who had never tried bar work) especially was keen to try and find a foreign boyfriend. Even though he had little English he has a great personality which would hopefully see him through the tricky Pattaya terrain. Vee always found farang genuinely attractive and always tried to connect with foreigners who worked mostly as management in the Navanakorn factories. Unfortunately for him he found all he encountered were more interested in the female gender, so he decided to head to where there might be an abundance of gay male foreigners....Pattaya!

Apart from those rare visits with us to Pattaya, there was all the gossip/info coming in from all the other gay lads from their home villages/town already working there, so digs/lodgings, support, help etc.. were already in place so getting settled would be no problem. Neither liked the idea of working as Gogo boys though. So either find a 'normal' job in 7-11 or the like, or find work in the bars as waiter/cashier etc. JayD found that waiter/barker and some part-time DJing suited his skill sets and Vee was willing to try the waiting game. In every part of Issan everybody knows Pattaya is where a gay lad can 'catch a break' and what it's all about. There is a very large gay social network around my bfs villages and nearest town with all types of people within that large circle from HiSo, government workers to farm workers and those in 'ordinary' work and those who have made their way to Pattaya/Bkk to search out 'opportunities'. They all kinda mix, certainly are all connected through facebook so there little going on that is not public knowledge between them, but the lads who have decided not to venture to Pattaya are not critical of the lads who do work the scene, in fact there are some 'wish they could' but for family or some other reason can't/won't. It certainly isn't a negative thing in their world. Family, non-gay or general Issan folks might well have a different view though.

The other main reason for having a try in Pattaya was the chance to immerse themselves in a gay lifestyle away from the home gossip, prying eyes and interference. The liasans with customers are but a small part of many of the lives of gay lads on the Pattaya gay-pay scene. Hanging out with friends enjoying a pressure-from-family free lifestyle socialising at clubs, bars, food-buffets is also a big attraction, I mean they are young and life passes very quickly as we all know. If they can carve out a lifestyle which suits them and at the same time manage to contribute to family funds...all's good. Also around the time of making the decision Vee had a major change in family circumstances back home which made taking a decision to change track easier.

Thus Vee joined the staff at BzBzBz Boyztown as a waiter, JayD joined as outside barker/waiter with occasional DJing in the area. Vee found the going hard at first due to his lack of English skills, but being bright managed to get by and pick up what he needed to know quite quickly. What surprised him the most was the number of customers who were not native English speakers, I think he expected them all to come from UK/USA with a few english speaking Germans for some reason, but found many from France, Italy, former Eastern Bloc and Asian, so not only had he to contend with his poor English he had to try to get to grips with all these other damned foreign languages! Being a very likeable lad and popular with his peers helped immensely as other's happily assisted him gain an understanding of various nationalities.

At this stage I will say I know a lot of the goings-on in BBB, while it was a place I never took to when the Scottish bosses were in charge I still knew some of the senior staff there through other avenues, even the current version hold little interest for me. But I know the 'management' through friends of bf from home villages/town of which there are 'levels' best described as many chiefs and few Indians, however both Vee and JayD got to be in with the furnishings there and so as close friends with bf and myself we are treated very well when we do visit, free bottles of whisky at Birthdays and special prices at all other times, but because I know so many there tend not to visit often and never alone only with bf, so for that reason I am trying not to give too much away with the 'insider stuff' but still keep it factual without landing somebody in trouble...me for instance!

Anyway, JayD made very quick progress, he is a hard working lad, very sincere and dedicated. Can turn his hand to anything really. Good communicator so did well outside BBB helping to get the punters in. Also multi-tasks around BBB, decent English and trustworthy. For Vee it was a slower, steady-as-you-go progress, once he mastered the butchered English that most Europeans use he found he earned well just on tips and drinks alone and got used to the very occasional off which suited him as he could pick and choose, which he did. When he did get an off he seemed to get on well with customers and did best with returning regular westerners/repeats. It was great visiting every 3 months and noting his progress especially on the language front. While I have always had enough very basic Thai to communicate with him over the years especially as he got used to my butchered style of Thai/Issan it certainly helped further as he picked up English phrases and words.

Eventually after a couple of close-calls, he did finally meet a lovely farang bf. A youngish good looking guy and they seem very well suited. I have know Vee since he was 15 back in the bfs village and when speaking with his farang bf find him describing exactly the Vee as I've always known him to be, so it seems Pattaya didn't manage to change him dramatically, he deserves and nice partner and I think his farang bf is fortunate too as Vee is not the cynical money-grabbing type and like JayD is very trustworthy. Just before our last visit, in mid-Sept his farang bf took him out if the bar to be full-time bfs....the happy ending I mentioned earlier. After we left he was due to visit his bfs home country, his very first trip outside Thailand borders. JayD is also very content with his lot and his role at BBB as he enjoys all the different/various challenges which come along with working in the bars. Having an incredibly laid back attitude too has really served him well.

As I say I've had to be careful about what info I revealed as they are real people not just a fiction story, but I also just wanted to update the journey of these two gay Issan lads and the options open to them as they progress through life to their current situations. They arrived in Pattaya only after trying the other routes, working at home back in Issan, then at least giving the 12-hour shift factory work in Navanakorn a go for 2 years before deciding to try the route many make a bee-line for without trying something else first. Both seem very content with how things have turned out for them.........so far!

[joe552]

A really interesting post, newalaan, thanks for taking the time.

[cdnmatt]

It 100% depends on their willingness to learn, and unfortunately, from my experience at least, many from the poor villages just don't see the value in education. How is that going to help me catch fish, or build a home, or her buffalo? Type of thing...

If they have a willingness to learn, then they're capable of anything they want. One option many of them choose is getting hooked up with a farang who takes care of them.

One thing I can say is Kim started up about 6 small business ventures during my time with him. Without question, the best was selling "neua yang" (raw Thai BBQ / jao-awwn) meat at the local markets. Long 14 hour days, as you're up at 6am to head off to the butcher and markets to get everything. Then all morning and early afternoon at home cutting everything up, and bagging it all, making the nam-jim, broth, etc. After that, it's selling at a couple different markets throughout the day. However, after expenses, it would probably bring in about 25,000 baht profit every month.

That one was by far the best. Cost about 20,000 baht in total to start up, which included the purchase of an old, second hand motorcycle with side cart, ice chest, tables, and everything else.

[latintopxxx]

newlaan always a pleasure reading your input, easy reading, like travel magazine. As is well known I rarely interact with money boys, to me its all about the sex....however on one occasion I engaged what I thought was a fit lad in his 20's only to have someone clearly in his mid thirties show up. My initial reaction was to tell him that the deal was off as his face pic clearly didnt match the adverised goods.
He turned out to be quite a cheeky fellow, lifted up his t-shirt to show a washboard stomach and said that he had a good body, si after negotiating an age discount I fucked him..the sex was great...really great..he was very enthusuastic.
Afterwards he much to my annoyance got very chatty...for some reason I couldnt ignore him..must have caught me in a weak moment..wanted to know about me, where I was from, was I gay (LOL), did my parents know, what I did for a job, why I liked Thailand.
We had a really good conversation, his english was good, turns out he was straight, from Isaan, had an affair, divorced, had 2 kids, lost a factory job, went through several regular BHT10,000/month jobs ...was introduced to whoring by a younger cousin and has never looked back since as he claimed to be making minimum 30,000/month.Supports his kids who live with his mum and is paying off a piece of land he bought back in his village where he intends living once he's too old.
I asked him what it was like as a straight guy to bottom..he was really good at it...he laughed and said ..practice..didnt particularly enjoy it, gave him no pleasure as witnessed by the fact he didnt get an erection..it was a job.
He didnt identify as gay, didnt mix with gays, never had sex with Thais only with foreigners, liked Taiwanese and japanese as they paid more, apart from his cousin nobody knows what he does for a job, he wasnt proud...it was the easiest way to make a living, but he certainly seemed to be thinking about his post MB future.
Longest in depth chat I've had with a MB.