Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?

Dear GoneFishing, I really wonder what entitles you to pass on judgement on people you don't even remotely know.

I am not passing judgement on people. What I am passing judgement on is what they write here - nothing more, nothing less. If that offends you, then maybe you should not be so judgemental of others yourself - and by "others" I don't just mean "anyone here", whom you had "had taken care not to insult", but also those who are the main subject of your post who you apparently think it is perfectly acceptable to pass judgement on and denigrate with impunity.

Point taken. But I hope you don't think that I look down on people because they are from Isaan (or from anywhere for that matter). I want to make that clear. The beginning of the thread was, after all, about bathing your bf in money (be it cash, buying him a house, or funding a business for him), and that, after all the things that I have experienced, and that friends have experienced, seemed rather foolish to me. Hence my sharp reaction.

Isn't this also quite a big generalization though:

You know, I hear the same type of stories from farangs lots, and it's no wonder these relationships don't work.

Funnily enough, Matt, it only just struck me that although so many failed farang/Thai relationships seem to have striking similarities, the opposite seems true about successful farang/Thai relationships which all seem to be markedly different. Strange .....

So it seems that generalizing is condemnable only if it doesn't serve one's purpose?

I guess your statement should cheer me up, because even though I had a "failed farang/Thai relationship" that lasted one and a half year till 2006, now have been enjoying a rather " successful farang/Thai relationship" for the last two-and-a-half years?

As I tried to point out in my last post, I am not passing judgement on you guys, especially not on Matt who has started this thread.

So I'd love to hear back from Matt in 2-3 years time, hearing what happened, and then I promise to be convinced

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't heard from Matt how he is going to finance their life in Khon Khaen - if he has won the lottery or has independent means and doesn't need to work anymore, that's a whole different situation compared to having to find a (teaching?) job in Isaan that will probably not pay very well. Then, taking care of the extended family might not be exactly feasible.

As one of your major points before was that I should have stayed in Thailand in order to not leave my bf alone "back there", I would be thrilled to hear about job opportunities in Thailand that guarantee you and your bf a secure life, even if you're not already wealthy and do not have an academic degree.

The living in Isaan on 2000B/month bit might have been misleading; I was in fact a volunteer at that time and didn't need to pay for accomodation. 2000B/month for food can go a long way in Isaan. What's more is that at that time, I didn't have a bf nor did I expect having one so soon. So there was no need for condoms and lube, and no demanding mother, sorry. I was a volunteer and had come to Thailand for "cultural experience" or whatever you want to call it. I lived in Thailand for nearly 2 years, and not everything happens at the same time, you know?

So would you object to the statement that - given you are working, and earning, let's say, 40K baht/month - your bf should still be working himself, be it only for 5K / month? Or do you think because you get the money, he should decide whether to work, study, or just watch TV? Just wondering.

I see your point that one shouldn't generalize. So let me express mea culpa again regarding my initial posts in this thread.

I can't help but think that "putting yourself on a pedestal" is not something completely alien to you, my friend. Anyway, let's have peace, if you will.

I'd love to hear "how it went" from Matt, in a year or two.

[cdnmatt]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't heard from Matt how he is going to finance their life in Khon Khaen

Well, selling yabba of course. :-) No, I've been a software entrepreneur for the past 9 years. Don't own a company anymore, but nonetheless, I'm good at what I do, and considering this is Issan, it will more than afford us a comfortable life. I can do it anywhere in the world, so after meeting Kim, I decided might as well take advantage of the freedom, instead of sitting around in Canada.

So would you object to the statement that - given you are working, and earning, let's say, 40K baht/month - your bf should still be working himself, be it only for 5K / month? Or do you think because you get the money, he should decide whether to work, study, or just watch TV? Just wondering.

Definitely. Actually, I don't care what he does, but I just hold him he has to do something with his time, and has to apply himself somewhere. What he does, is up to him. Whether that's working, becoming a student, volunteering at the orphanage, helping build houses for Habitat for Humanity, or whatever. I don't care, as long as it's something, and I could care less if it makes money. His 5000 baht/month wouldn't affect our lives in any shape or form.

[Beachlover]

But if you apply that attitude how is Kim going to be motivated enough to apply himself to his full potential and gain the satisfaction you get from doing that?

Few people have the drive to achieve something worthy inside... most need something external (e.g. need money) and very real to push them.

So it seems that generalizing is condemnable only if it doesn't serve one's purpose?

[X] Yes

No boy has any money. No boy runs. No boy runs fast. Every boy runs. Every boy runs fast. Only boys sleep.

[cdnmatt]

But if you apply that attitude how is Kim going to be motivated enough to apply himself to his full potential and gain the satisfaction you get from doing that?

True in a way, but who says that's the path to happiness and fulfillment? Personally, I love working, as long as it's my own ideas and operations. I love being able to take an idea, and turning it into a fruitful operation that generates a decent cash flow, and watching it evolve. However, that's not for everyone, and I'd say that's more true for Issan folk than Westerners.

For example, what's wrong with just simply owning a small convenience store, which does laundry on the side, and being happy with that? Take some of the convenience stores in Sydney. I'm sure it's the same as Canada, where you see a family owned store, and the same lady sitting behind the counter everyday. She just sits there all day, sells stuff, and watches the little TV in her corner, then probably spends the nights with her family. No ambition to "make something" of herself, or anything. Yet, she seems absolutely thrilled to be alive, always smiling and cheerful, and I'd say happier than most high-ranking businessmen and white-collar individuals I know, and have met.

So honestly, I don't really see the need to push anything on him. He's not stupid, and he knows what this world's all about, so I'd prefer just to let him make his own choices, and be there to support him. More than likely, they'll be pretty good choices, as I don't fall in love with idiots. I give him a nudge here and there to keep him on his feet, but will never actively push him towards something. That's up to him, not me. My job is to simply let him know what doors are now open to him. It's up to him whether or not he wants to walk through any of them.

[Diec]

What kind of nudges are you giving little Kim cdmatt? I hope your not making him think too much.

[Beachlover]

You're probably much wiser than me, Matt... very insightful point well put.

I admit I make this mistake often... I see and interpret others' situations from my own eyes with my own values and getting distressed when I see them make these irrational (in my eyes) decisions, when really... they might be thrilled with that convenience store or hairdresser lifestyle.

You're right... everyone has different aspirations, values and paths to fulfillment. Understanding this must go a long way to getting on well with relationships.

True in a way, but who says that's the path to happiness and fulfillment? ..... So honestly, I don't really see the need to push anything on him.

Matt, I agree completely with your sentiments but my reservations, and possibly others', are not about Kim "making something of himself", but about what you see him doing to occupy his time while you are busy working every day. As I have said before, the devil finds work for idle hands and for young, impressionable people with time and money to spare, and it is not him (or you!) selling yaa-baa that seems the most likely problem - after all, one of this forum's favourite posters did point out that "There is a 70% chance your Thai boyfriend is a yaa-baa addict".

I am not insinuating anything, just pointing out a possibility.

[Brisboy82]

Vietnamese lessons? What would be the point of that? I know that Vietnam is growing at an extremely rapid rate but Thailand is still a far more advanced country than Vietnam so why would Thais benefit from learning Vietnamese?

Vietnamese lessons: for the purpose of trade and cultural relations with Vietnam. Vietnam does a lot of (import) business with Thailand and there are quite a few Vietnamese students studying at Thai universities. So, in theory, a young Thai guy who could speak Vietnamese might be able to secure employment with a Thai exporter of goods to Vietnam.

In truth, I don't remember when or why I wrote "Vietnamese lessons". It would have made more sense if I had said "English lessons". Maybe the fact that I live in Vietnam led to the error.